L
Les
Those of us on fairly heavy doses of Beta-Blockers have benefited from the increase in heart rate from reading these posts...Thanks to all!
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There?s no need to bash the President in vr.com.
There?s no need to bash the President in vr.com.
I disagree, I don?t think this is the place to ?vent? over who won or lost the election. There?s plenty of other places (even on the internet) to do that.
Hank has ?Proud to be an American? written all over this site. Lets not degrade it by fighting like children and losing dear friends. The President has been elected. We?ve already heard all this garbage over the last couple years. Enough already. Notice you haven't heard any ?Kerry bashing? here.
It would be better if we entertained ourselves with those silly sex threads. I think George and Laura probably have a pretty good sex life.
Kerry... well, he seems a little pu$$y whipped.
There?s no need to bash the President in vr.com.
I disagree, I don?t think this is the place to ?vent? over who won or lost the election. There?s plenty of other places (even on the internet) to do that.
Hank has ?Proud to be an American? written all over this site. Lets not degrade it by fighting like children and losing dear friends. The President has been elected. We?ve already heard all this garbage over the last couple years. Enough already. Notice you haven't heard any ?Kerry bashing? here.
It would be better if we entertained ourselves with those silly sex threads. I think George and Laura probably have a pretty good sex life.
Kerry... well, he seems a little pu$$y whipped.
P
pegne
I was watching Fox news and Cnn last night and the opinions of most Democrats that came on Bill O'Reilly and Hardball was that the Democratic Party was awakened this election. The party has now realized that the majority of the country IS interested in issues other than the war and the economy. John Kerry criticized George Bush about his agenda but never came up with a clear plan on what he would do differently. I was very interested in the fact that most of them said that he ran "to far left". There may be a place and a time for a far left government but right now most people want traditional values. Let's face it, the independents (republicans voted for Bush and the democrats voted for Kerry) decided this race and they felt as if their values were at stake. John Kerry could not make people feel comfortable voting for him. His party now admits that in 2008, they have to run someone who can show the country that values are important. No matter what personal preferences are these issues are of importance to the majority of this country. Kerry had all of Hollywood and the "elite" media behind him. The media had Kerry president before the election even took place. Hollywood thinks that because we pay enormous amounts of money to see their movies that we will vote the way they want us to. Let's face it folks this is a victory for all of us. For once we did not let them sway us.
Three years ago, Osama Bin Laden said that he would bankrupt America, not bomb it into submission. In his recent pre-election rant, he reiterated that he would win his war with the US by ruining America financially.
Our president has indicated he will win the so-called War on Terror ?no matter what the cost.?
Red cape meets bull.
The public debt has been raised from functionally zero to the highest level it has ever been at in a mere three years, as a direct result of the viscious and cowardly attack made by Bin Laden's associates on innocent civilians ? and with absolutely no end in sight. This is not a sign of us winning. This is us falling right into the hole that OBL dug for us and has told us he will make us fall into. And he's smirking all the way to our bank.
This isn?t about sacrifices or comfort at home. It?s about not being able to even pay for the planes and the bombs and our soldiers.
Every time the national debt goes up a dollar, OBL and his subhuman thugs sit in their well-furnished caves in the mountains of Pakistan and giggle. If you haven?t considered that the national debt is on the front line of the War on Terror, you might want to start thinking about it now.
Our president has indicated he will win the so-called War on Terror ?no matter what the cost.?
Red cape meets bull.
The public debt has been raised from functionally zero to the highest level it has ever been at in a mere three years, as a direct result of the viscious and cowardly attack made by Bin Laden's associates on innocent civilians ? and with absolutely no end in sight. This is not a sign of us winning. This is us falling right into the hole that OBL dug for us and has told us he will make us fall into. And he's smirking all the way to our bank.
This isn?t about sacrifices or comfort at home. It?s about not being able to even pay for the planes and the bombs and our soldiers.
Every time the national debt goes up a dollar, OBL and his subhuman thugs sit in their well-furnished caves in the mountains of Pakistan and giggle. If you haven?t considered that the national debt is on the front line of the War on Terror, you might want to start thinking about it now.
Ross
Well-known member
This thread will go on unmoderated. If this thread offends you please consider not visiting it to give the others that wish for it to go on the opportunity to do so.
Being unmoderated means anything goes and nothing is going to be stopped, so if your toes get slammed in a door, don't pm or email me about it.
You have been warned and with that the thread resumes.
Being unmoderated means anything goes and nothing is going to be stopped, so if your toes get slammed in a door, don't pm or email me about it.
You have been warned and with that the thread resumes.
Nancy
Well-known member
I grew up in a political family. My dad was in politics all of his life. I've been watching the returns since I was a tot.
There is ALWAYS a winner and a loser, and the loser's supporters are always bitterly disappointed, and think the country, state, county, city is doomed. And the winner's supporters are always elated. Somehow it all works out, not what we would all like, but we then have another chance to defeat the reigning party at the polls again in a couple of years.
We are SO lucky that we can do this. If you feel strongly about one particular candidate, volunteer for them, raise money, tack up some signs. It's the American way and many people come here from different countries to have just this kind of freedom.
It is quite clear from the numbers of people who voted for Bush, that Kerry didn't get his message across properly, or to the right people. Whether it was his fault, his campaign managers' fault or the whole party's fault isn't clear at the moment, but I'm sure the mistakes that happened during the campaign will be analyzed thoroughly over the next year, and next campaign, things will be quite different.
Also remember that this country's structure has many checks and balances built in under the Constitution.
I see no reason why anyone should be personally bashing anyone else. It's just the way elections go, you win or you lose.
There is ALWAYS a winner and a loser, and the loser's supporters are always bitterly disappointed, and think the country, state, county, city is doomed. And the winner's supporters are always elated. Somehow it all works out, not what we would all like, but we then have another chance to defeat the reigning party at the polls again in a couple of years.
We are SO lucky that we can do this. If you feel strongly about one particular candidate, volunteer for them, raise money, tack up some signs. It's the American way and many people come here from different countries to have just this kind of freedom.
It is quite clear from the numbers of people who voted for Bush, that Kerry didn't get his message across properly, or to the right people. Whether it was his fault, his campaign managers' fault or the whole party's fault isn't clear at the moment, but I'm sure the mistakes that happened during the campaign will be analyzed thoroughly over the next year, and next campaign, things will be quite different.
Also remember that this country's structure has many checks and balances built in under the Constitution.
I see no reason why anyone should be personally bashing anyone else. It's just the way elections go, you win or you lose.
Rush20
Well-known member
Karlynn said:I'll echo Sweet Betty's remark.
After my little "event" last August, I'm glad I have four more years to bitch about!
On the upside, I work in Chicago and in the same building as the local FOX TV station. Today, while exiting the elevator, I literally bumped into our new Illinois congressman, Barak Obama. Nice guy! I shook his hand and congratulated him on his success. Local fliers already pushing for a Clinton/Obama ticket in 2008. It will be interesting.
Politics aside, this is a great country that allows us to debate such issues. However, from a pure wallet and checkbook perspective, I don't know how many more "Bushes" I can take in the White House. I'm not sure if I'm a "Moderate Liberal" or a "Liberal Moderate", however tax cuts don't help me if I'm paying $3.00 for a gallon of gasoline!
Turkey Hunter
Well-known member
Wow !!!!
Wow !!!!
I want to begin by telling each and every one of you...that I love you guys !!
And this is the first I have actually read this thread.....It has been difficult to avoid !!
First....To remove a post like this, where folks are having what I have read to be just simply lively discussion....is inappropriate !!
Second...I really do not know where to begin. I voted for Bush.
Stem Cells......very important to me. I read early on that the term embryonic was left out of most discussions surrounding this matter. AND IT WAS !! If you have done any research AT ALL, you would know that those same stem cells are available vis the umbilical cord and the placenta (sp?) ! For John Kerry to not make this point shows his ignorance being it was obviously a very important decision factor to the heartland of America!!
I think this is a very lively thread and should continue...however, I have not read or seen anywhere that any one individual has been attacked or bashed. We have all had our say and, I believe, said it appropriately !!
Thirdly, For any person to actually vote for Mr. Kerry...they were obviously not intellectually honest with themselves. The DNC obviously chose the wrong (leftest) man for their choice as President Bush's competitor !
Fourth.....In regards to judges that believe they have the right to legislate from the bench. How can any of you that have any understanding of our Constitution even perceive this to be appropriate ??
A judges job is simply to distinguish the appropriate decision based on precedent and our constitution !! A group of judges or judge that tell a State's Congress that they have a certain number of days to "Write a Law" is way beyond what our United States Constitution even come close to stating. A judges job is to interpret....not legislate !!!!!!!!!!!!! What ever party affiliation you have, this needs fixed. I hope we can all agree on that.
Fifth.....For those of you who want to spout the "Separation of Church and State" Please tell me where you read that in our Constitution !!!!
It is not there !
What you will find is an amendment telling Government it has not right to force or legislate mandatory religion. PERIOD !!! Obviously, not the exact words, but that is the exact gist you will find if your read that amendment !!!!
Honestly, I could go on & on...but I will not. I do have the facts that are needed to support my obvious beliefs and vote, but I will end my venting here.........GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU AND especially GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Please support our troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben
Wow !!!!
I want to begin by telling each and every one of you...that I love you guys !!
And this is the first I have actually read this thread.....It has been difficult to avoid !!
First....To remove a post like this, where folks are having what I have read to be just simply lively discussion....is inappropriate !!
Second...I really do not know where to begin. I voted for Bush.
Stem Cells......very important to me. I read early on that the term embryonic was left out of most discussions surrounding this matter. AND IT WAS !! If you have done any research AT ALL, you would know that those same stem cells are available vis the umbilical cord and the placenta (sp?) ! For John Kerry to not make this point shows his ignorance being it was obviously a very important decision factor to the heartland of America!!
I think this is a very lively thread and should continue...however, I have not read or seen anywhere that any one individual has been attacked or bashed. We have all had our say and, I believe, said it appropriately !!
Thirdly, For any person to actually vote for Mr. Kerry...they were obviously not intellectually honest with themselves. The DNC obviously chose the wrong (leftest) man for their choice as President Bush's competitor !
Fourth.....In regards to judges that believe they have the right to legislate from the bench. How can any of you that have any understanding of our Constitution even perceive this to be appropriate ??
A judges job is simply to distinguish the appropriate decision based on precedent and our constitution !! A group of judges or judge that tell a State's Congress that they have a certain number of days to "Write a Law" is way beyond what our United States Constitution even come close to stating. A judges job is to interpret....not legislate !!!!!!!!!!!!! What ever party affiliation you have, this needs fixed. I hope we can all agree on that.
Fifth.....For those of you who want to spout the "Separation of Church and State" Please tell me where you read that in our Constitution !!!!
It is not there !
What you will find is an amendment telling Government it has not right to force or legislate mandatory religion. PERIOD !!! Obviously, not the exact words, but that is the exact gist you will find if your read that amendment !!!!
Honestly, I could go on & on...but I will not. I do have the facts that are needed to support my obvious beliefs and vote, but I will end my venting here.........GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU AND especially GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Please support our troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ben
K
Karlynn
Karlynn said:
Okay, I lied. Not enough for me, I care too much about what you all think. It was late, I just got home from work and took great exception to someone telling me I and half the voting population let hype get to us and didn't do our homework. I will say that I can't think of anyone I've run across in the course of political debate this last year, who didn't do some homework. I won't mention the fact that 80% of the 527 organizations money went to Kerry. Just ask George Sorros.
So I would like one rule instituted in our "discussion" and that is we assume that those who think differently from us are intelligent people. It doesn't mean you have to agree, but it does keep thoughtful discussion thoughtful.
P
pegne
If I offended
If I offended
anyone with the things I have said I truly apologize. During the last few months my daughter and I have had many many conversations about this election. I thought that I had instilled my Conservative values and beliefs on her all of her life, so imagine my suprise when she told me that she voted for JK. At first I was disappointed. After that a little sad. Then something dawned on my. I tried to raise my daughter to be a leader, not a follower. I tried to raise her to think for herself. I tried raise her to show others respect as well as to respect herself. She researched the issues as well as I did and although my initial feelings were sadness and disappointment I realized that I raised her to be indepentant and not to conform to any belief system that she did not feel comfortable. I guess that she showed me that even though we are miles apart in our politics she is still the daughter I raised, and I'm proud of the person she has become.
If I offended
anyone with the things I have said I truly apologize. During the last few months my daughter and I have had many many conversations about this election. I thought that I had instilled my Conservative values and beliefs on her all of her life, so imagine my suprise when she told me that she voted for JK. At first I was disappointed. After that a little sad. Then something dawned on my. I tried to raise my daughter to be a leader, not a follower. I tried to raise her to think for herself. I tried raise her to show others respect as well as to respect herself. She researched the issues as well as I did and although my initial feelings were sadness and disappointment I realized that I raised her to be indepentant and not to conform to any belief system that she did not feel comfortable. I guess that she showed me that even though we are miles apart in our politics she is still the daughter I raised, and I'm proud of the person she has become.
E
ericaj
uneducated?!
uneducated?!
I tried to only post my opinion once, but I can't not reply to one comment.
Just because I voted for John Kerry does not mean that I am either dishonest with myself or uneducated. I did my research, I watched the community around me, I kept up on things nationally, I have watched my friends go over seas. I have watched family and friends lose there lives, jobs, and over the last four years I have watched this nation go from a great nation to one where people vote because of the moral issue not because of what is right for themselves and everyone around them.
I do not care if other people have other views and see Pres. Bush as a great leader. This is your right, we are after all AMERICA, a Democracy where FREEDOM is very REAL!! This includes Freedom of Speech! Just please do not call those of us with other views uneducated and unknowledgeable.
Erica
uneducated?!
I tried to only post my opinion once, but I can't not reply to one comment.
Just because I voted for John Kerry does not mean that I am either dishonest with myself or uneducated. I did my research, I watched the community around me, I kept up on things nationally, I have watched my friends go over seas. I have watched family and friends lose there lives, jobs, and over the last four years I have watched this nation go from a great nation to one where people vote because of the moral issue not because of what is right for themselves and everyone around them.
I do not care if other people have other views and see Pres. Bush as a great leader. This is your right, we are after all AMERICA, a Democracy where FREEDOM is very REAL!! This includes Freedom of Speech! Just please do not call those of us with other views uneducated and unknowledgeable.
Erica
G
Guest
*rolls eyes*
I _know_ I'm going to be fried for this, but I'm in a combative mood tonight, so here goes...........
Taking that same quote (of Melissa's):
The "sellability" of the Tribune Company's Cubs is EXACTLY what I am so upset about. I SO STRONGLY believe that MANY fans who cheer for the Cubs are "sold" a bill of goods through a high payroll worth of players and never bothered to look behind the advertising. The Tribune Company "says" they want a winning team on the North side of Chicago - but how do you measure winning?
Or:
The "sellability" of the Chevrolet Nova/Malibu/Monte Carlo Impala of today is EXACTLY what I am so upset about. I SO STRONGLY believe that MANY people who bought the '80s nova/90s-current malibu & monte carlo/2000s impala [sadly, I and my parents included...arg] were "sold" a bill of goods through heavy advertising and never bothered to look behind the advertising. Chevrolet "sells" those current models as real novas/malibus/monte carlos/impalas - but how do you measure realness?
Or:
The "sellability" of NBC 5 Chiago is EXACTLY what I am so upset about. I SO STRONGLY believe that MANY viewers who watch NBC 5 are "sold" a newscast through tricky advertising and never bothered to look behind the advertising. NBC 5 "sells" itself as a moral station - but how do you measure his morality (when they hire Jerry Springer for the sole purpose of getting rid of Ron Magers and Carol Marin)?
*pauses*
*grins*
That should ruffle some feathers
.My point in this exercise?
That we all have different viewpoints and thoughts and feelings. These viewpoints/thoughts/feelings, however, do not mean that we cannot get along...or that we cannot continue to be friends.
I am a die-hard Chicago Cubs fan...no question about it. Yet, I'm very frustrated that fans flock to Wrigley Field...only to be sold a team that is owned by a company that has claimed for over 20 years that they want a winning team on Chicago's North side...and never producing it.
I am also a huge Chevrolet enthusiast. Still, I'm very upset that millions of Americans have been forced to buy "fake" novas/impalas/monte carlos/malibus. The cars of today are nothing like their namesakes. Thus, they should be given different names.
As for NBC 5 Chicago...don't even get me started
.*ponders*
I wonder how many people I've now offended...or lost as friends because of this post. I sure hope none. But, if that has happened, that, imho, is their loss...because they are, imho, taking my viewpoints/thoughts/feelings way too personally...and, imho, do not value friendship enough to overcome biases or attitudes that may not be equal to theirs.
.Food for thought....
Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 31swm/pig valve/pacemaker
'72/'6/'9/'81/'7, train/models = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
MC Guide = http://www.chevyasylum.com/mcspotter/main.html
MC's Future = http://www.projectmonte.com/petition/
How sweet it is.....
How sweet it is.....
I've got no wise words to add to this thread, but want to add the following e-mail I received today. It says exactly what I've been thinking this past election year. I think this man says it all and much better than I could have , so here goes.
May God Bless George W. Bush..
Subject: HOW SWEET IT IS......................
>>From a retired US Navy Admiral by Dick Van Orden>
>I am not normally a cheerful loser or a gracious winner. Whether its
>tiddly-winks or war at sea, I want to win, win, win! In fact, I hate to
>lose and when I win I sometimes want to rub the loser's nose in his
defeat.
>After a sleepless night I feel just rotten enough that the past six months
>of lies and innuendos from the Kerry camp have it all come home to make me
>more vindictive than usual. As a result, I want to gloat. Here's why:
>
>I am happy that the sound common sense of a majority of America's voters
>resulted in a solid victory for a true patriot-and in the humiliating
defeat
>of a lying traitor. There was no doubt in my mind that Bush's
truthfulness
>and forthrightness would prevail against the lies and half-truths of Kerry
>and his supporters, and I am pleased that a majority of good folks saw the
>light and pushed the Bush/Cheney button for justice and for increasing
>support for the nation's bright future.
>
>I am pleased that the left-leaning media-newspapers, radio, TV and
>newsmagazines-got their bell rung, but good. Now we are assured that
these
>self-appointed "opinion makers" cannot pull the wool over the eyes of most
>of us, no matter how hard they twist the facts. Their early reporting of
>the "leaked" fraudulent exit polls, and their sponsorship of other badly
>skewed voter polls were designed to mislead voters, in which they
>failed-miserably. And Dan Rather deserves a special place in hell.
>
>I am delighted that the fat, disgusting a-hole, Michael Moore did not
>achieve the success that he wished for and that he was repulsed by so many
>intelligent Americans. May his soul burn in hell.
>
>I hope the Hollywood friends of Michael Moore-especially Barbara
Streisand,
>Whopi Goldberg, P-Diddler, and their friends-are roasting in the hell of
>their own making. It seems to me that they all offered to depart the U.S.
if
>Bush won the first time, which they did not do. The time is now doubly
ripe
>for their exit.
>
>I am blissful that all the treasure and invective of George Soros devoted
to
>defeating George Bush went for naught. I only wish for a financial future
of
>similar poor decisions by Soros; I want to see him as bankrupt in bank
>account as he is in patriotism.
>
>I find it particularly satisfying that the high ranking military suck-ups
>whose lack of integrity led them to desert their commander-in-chief and
>follow a lying cheat, even though they knew, or should have known, that
his
>dismissal from the Navy was "less than honorable," as detailed in the
>military record that he refused to release. It is sad that such Navy
types
>as Bill Crowe, Stan Turner, and even Jimmy Carter would be in that group.
>It is obvious that their motivation was the hope of a cushy job when their
>new-found knight in shining armor moved into the White House. Even their
>strategy was flawed, for Kerry is, and always has been, anti-military; he
>only used his military service-and those military "advisors"-for personal
>political gain. He would never have offered that cushy job, once he had
>used them, just as he never voted for the needed armament that they and
>their shipmates and their Marine Corps, Army, and Air Force
brothers-in-arms
>needed so badly.
>
>I am thrilled that the whiners who have complained bitterly about the
>"stolen" 2000 Presidential election must leave that fallacy in the past
and
>now try to find something else to whine about-maybe they can even develop
a
>fantasy that the four million vote plurality was a miscount, and continue
>their whining as they slink away into their caves.
>
>It pleases me that Kofi Annan and the other United Nations sycophants
failed
>miserably when they tried so hard to influence this election to ensure
that
>a more pliable President Kerry would be elected. I hope they will now
>realize that either they clean up the bureaucratic, corrupt, do-nothing
UN,
>or they will be short of funds when the Bush-led US decreases-or ends-its
>support.
>
>I am overjoyed at the failure of Osama bin Laden's carefully timed video
of
>invective against the US and its President in hopes of using Islamic scare
>tactics on the American people. Bin Laden's aim was to entice our voters
to
>elect a new President who will not be as robust in his pursuit of
terrorists
>and more willing to "negotiate" with Islamic Fundamentalists. He did not
>understand that Americans are not so panicky as the French, fearful as the
>Spanish, or unthinking as the English. (As for the Germans, they should
>know better; we have defeated them in battle often enough to convince them
>of the rightness of our ways.) I hope Osama dies in a blast from a
>bunker-buster before he gets a chance to make another video or another
>attack on our nation.
>
>The blatant attempts of European nations and the EU to cause our President
>discomfort in his efforts to bring peace to the world make me glad that
they
>are so disappointed with the election results. My joy is unbounded at the
>chagrin of the French and German and other anti-Bush, anti-American
nations
>(including the people of the UK-but not their loyal and faithful
government
>led by Prime Minister, Tony Blair). Now let those U.S.-sheltered
Europeans
>worry about the end of American financial and military assistance when
they
>have problems. Let them beg for American military aid and other handouts
>that have helped to sustain their economies. And let them perish in their
>own sweat when we remove our troops from Germany, the Balkans, and other
>trouble spots where we have pulled their chestnuts out of the fire.
>
>I relish the hope that Islamic fundamentalists will now understand the
>election result as a blow from which they cannot recover. It fills me
with
>joy that their dreams of world domination will be shattered by Bush's and
>the American nation's resolve to see them defeated and sent to join their
>Allah-without the 72 virgins waiting for them.
>
>It pleases me more than I can say that the Senate Minority Leader, Thomas
>Daschle lost his seat. As the leading obstructionist for the Democrat
>party, he was primarily responsible for withholding approval of many Bush
>appointments to Federal judgeships, high-level positions, and other
>necessary personnel. Good riddance.
>
>The demise of the junk-yard dog, loudmouth James Carville, also brings me
>great happiness. That happiness is further enhanced by the victory of the
>first Republican to win a Senate seat in Louisiana, Carville's home state.
>
>I am delighted with the success of John O'Neil and his Swift Boat Vets-and
>with those thousands of non-Swifties who joined with them-on their
>forthright revelation of the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam. They
took
>a truthful but difficult position and made an impact-good and honorable
Navy
>men all. Bush gets gentlemanly credit for not using them and their data in
>his campaign to demean Kerry, but the word was out that they spoke the
>truth. I maintain that they were the MVPs of this election; their
testimony
>turned the tide against Kerry, and he never recovered.
>
>And, finally, I must express my unbounded gratification at the defeat of
>Senator Kerry, a worthless Senator, anti-military extremist, lying
>self-promoter, and former Naval officer who disgraced us all. His
>traitorous collusion with the enemy is second only to that of Jane Fonda.
He
>should have been court-martialed for giving aid and comfort to the enemy
in
>time of war. His dishonorable quest for medals and a quick return to the
>US, where he turned against his shipmates and lied about their actions
>resulted in a less than honorable separation from the Navy. Jimmy
Carter's
>amnesty allowed him to file for, and get, an honorable discharge 18 years
>after he left the service. He should have received a court martial.
>
>While my thoughts may seem to be mean-spirited, do not be confused-they
>really are mean-spirited, as I mean them to be. I have suffered the
>tortures of the damned over the past year as I heard and read the lies and
>nasty remarks from politicians, citizens, and media "experts" about our
>President. I have barely tolerated the feeble but divisive attempts of
>foreign and domestic peaceniks to build a case against our war on the
>Islamic fundamentalists, who use terrorism as a weapon against us in order
>to intimidate our citizens and drive some of our gutless politicians to
seek
>"negotiations" to avoid "confrontations" with those who seek to kill our
>citizens.
>
>Most of all, I have seethed with anger at those who shamefully derided our
>military, blissfully reporting on their failures and neglecting their
>successes. They triumphantly celebrated our difficulties by running daily
>body counts of our own heroic men killed in battle with the enemy, even
>publishing their pictures in papers and on TV as if to mock the President
>who sent them to defend our nation. I have only disgust for such tactics.
>And those are the very same people who now plead for "united actions" in
the
>House and Senate, now that they are in a steadily declining minority. I
>would advise our President to "watch your six" because these are really
>enemies and they are not to be trusted.
>
>Four more years! How sweet it is!
How sweet it is.....
I've got no wise words to add to this thread, but want to add the following e-mail I received today. It says exactly what I've been thinking this past election year. I think this man says it all and much better than I could have , so here goes.
May God Bless George W. Bush..
Subject: HOW SWEET IT IS......................
>>From a retired US Navy Admiral by Dick Van Orden>
>I am not normally a cheerful loser or a gracious winner. Whether its
>tiddly-winks or war at sea, I want to win, win, win! In fact, I hate to
>lose and when I win I sometimes want to rub the loser's nose in his
defeat.
>After a sleepless night I feel just rotten enough that the past six months
>of lies and innuendos from the Kerry camp have it all come home to make me
>more vindictive than usual. As a result, I want to gloat. Here's why:
>
>I am happy that the sound common sense of a majority of America's voters
>resulted in a solid victory for a true patriot-and in the humiliating
defeat
>of a lying traitor. There was no doubt in my mind that Bush's
truthfulness
>and forthrightness would prevail against the lies and half-truths of Kerry
>and his supporters, and I am pleased that a majority of good folks saw the
>light and pushed the Bush/Cheney button for justice and for increasing
>support for the nation's bright future.
>
>I am pleased that the left-leaning media-newspapers, radio, TV and
>newsmagazines-got their bell rung, but good. Now we are assured that
these
>self-appointed "opinion makers" cannot pull the wool over the eyes of most
>of us, no matter how hard they twist the facts. Their early reporting of
>the "leaked" fraudulent exit polls, and their sponsorship of other badly
>skewed voter polls were designed to mislead voters, in which they
>failed-miserably. And Dan Rather deserves a special place in hell.
>
>I am delighted that the fat, disgusting a-hole, Michael Moore did not
>achieve the success that he wished for and that he was repulsed by so many
>intelligent Americans. May his soul burn in hell.
>
>I hope the Hollywood friends of Michael Moore-especially Barbara
Streisand,
>Whopi Goldberg, P-Diddler, and their friends-are roasting in the hell of
>their own making. It seems to me that they all offered to depart the U.S.
if
>Bush won the first time, which they did not do. The time is now doubly
ripe
>for their exit.
>
>I am blissful that all the treasure and invective of George Soros devoted
to
>defeating George Bush went for naught. I only wish for a financial future
of
>similar poor decisions by Soros; I want to see him as bankrupt in bank
>account as he is in patriotism.
>
>I find it particularly satisfying that the high ranking military suck-ups
>whose lack of integrity led them to desert their commander-in-chief and
>follow a lying cheat, even though they knew, or should have known, that
his
>dismissal from the Navy was "less than honorable," as detailed in the
>military record that he refused to release. It is sad that such Navy
types
>as Bill Crowe, Stan Turner, and even Jimmy Carter would be in that group.
>It is obvious that their motivation was the hope of a cushy job when their
>new-found knight in shining armor moved into the White House. Even their
>strategy was flawed, for Kerry is, and always has been, anti-military; he
>only used his military service-and those military "advisors"-for personal
>political gain. He would never have offered that cushy job, once he had
>used them, just as he never voted for the needed armament that they and
>their shipmates and their Marine Corps, Army, and Air Force
brothers-in-arms
>needed so badly.
>
>I am thrilled that the whiners who have complained bitterly about the
>"stolen" 2000 Presidential election must leave that fallacy in the past
and
>now try to find something else to whine about-maybe they can even develop
a
>fantasy that the four million vote plurality was a miscount, and continue
>their whining as they slink away into their caves.
>
>It pleases me that Kofi Annan and the other United Nations sycophants
failed
>miserably when they tried so hard to influence this election to ensure
that
>a more pliable President Kerry would be elected. I hope they will now
>realize that either they clean up the bureaucratic, corrupt, do-nothing
UN,
>or they will be short of funds when the Bush-led US decreases-or ends-its
>support.
>
>I am overjoyed at the failure of Osama bin Laden's carefully timed video
of
>invective against the US and its President in hopes of using Islamic scare
>tactics on the American people. Bin Laden's aim was to entice our voters
to
>elect a new President who will not be as robust in his pursuit of
terrorists
>and more willing to "negotiate" with Islamic Fundamentalists. He did not
>understand that Americans are not so panicky as the French, fearful as the
>Spanish, or unthinking as the English. (As for the Germans, they should
>know better; we have defeated them in battle often enough to convince them
>of the rightness of our ways.) I hope Osama dies in a blast from a
>bunker-buster before he gets a chance to make another video or another
>attack on our nation.
>
>The blatant attempts of European nations and the EU to cause our President
>discomfort in his efforts to bring peace to the world make me glad that
they
>are so disappointed with the election results. My joy is unbounded at the
>chagrin of the French and German and other anti-Bush, anti-American
nations
>(including the people of the UK-but not their loyal and faithful
government
>led by Prime Minister, Tony Blair). Now let those U.S.-sheltered
Europeans
>worry about the end of American financial and military assistance when
they
>have problems. Let them beg for American military aid and other handouts
>that have helped to sustain their economies. And let them perish in their
>own sweat when we remove our troops from Germany, the Balkans, and other
>trouble spots where we have pulled their chestnuts out of the fire.
>
>I relish the hope that Islamic fundamentalists will now understand the
>election result as a blow from which they cannot recover. It fills me
with
>joy that their dreams of world domination will be shattered by Bush's and
>the American nation's resolve to see them defeated and sent to join their
>Allah-without the 72 virgins waiting for them.
>
>It pleases me more than I can say that the Senate Minority Leader, Thomas
>Daschle lost his seat. As the leading obstructionist for the Democrat
>party, he was primarily responsible for withholding approval of many Bush
>appointments to Federal judgeships, high-level positions, and other
>necessary personnel. Good riddance.
>
>The demise of the junk-yard dog, loudmouth James Carville, also brings me
>great happiness. That happiness is further enhanced by the victory of the
>first Republican to win a Senate seat in Louisiana, Carville's home state.
>
>I am delighted with the success of John O'Neil and his Swift Boat Vets-and
>with those thousands of non-Swifties who joined with them-on their
>forthright revelation of the truth of Kerry's service in Vietnam. They
took
>a truthful but difficult position and made an impact-good and honorable
Navy
>men all. Bush gets gentlemanly credit for not using them and their data in
>his campaign to demean Kerry, but the word was out that they spoke the
>truth. I maintain that they were the MVPs of this election; their
testimony
>turned the tide against Kerry, and he never recovered.
>
>And, finally, I must express my unbounded gratification at the defeat of
>Senator Kerry, a worthless Senator, anti-military extremist, lying
>self-promoter, and former Naval officer who disgraced us all. His
>traitorous collusion with the enemy is second only to that of Jane Fonda.
He
>should have been court-martialed for giving aid and comfort to the enemy
in
>time of war. His dishonorable quest for medals and a quick return to the
>US, where he turned against his shipmates and lied about their actions
>resulted in a less than honorable separation from the Navy. Jimmy
Carter's
>amnesty allowed him to file for, and get, an honorable discharge 18 years
>after he left the service. He should have received a court martial.
>
>While my thoughts may seem to be mean-spirited, do not be confused-they
>really are mean-spirited, as I mean them to be. I have suffered the
>tortures of the damned over the past year as I heard and read the lies and
>nasty remarks from politicians, citizens, and media "experts" about our
>President. I have barely tolerated the feeble but divisive attempts of
>foreign and domestic peaceniks to build a case against our war on the
>Islamic fundamentalists, who use terrorism as a weapon against us in order
>to intimidate our citizens and drive some of our gutless politicians to
seek
>"negotiations" to avoid "confrontations" with those who seek to kill our
>citizens.
>
>Most of all, I have seethed with anger at those who shamefully derided our
>military, blissfully reporting on their failures and neglecting their
>successes. They triumphantly celebrated our difficulties by running daily
>body counts of our own heroic men killed in battle with the enemy, even
>publishing their pictures in papers and on TV as if to mock the President
>who sent them to defend our nation. I have only disgust for such tactics.
>And those are the very same people who now plead for "united actions" in
the
>House and Senate, now that they are in a steadily declining minority. I
>would advise our President to "watch your six" because these are really
>enemies and they are not to be trusted.
>
>Four more years! How sweet it is!
K
Karlynn
knightfan2691 said:*rolls eyes*
I _know_ I'm going to be fried for this, but I'm in a combative mood tonight, so here goes...........
I wonder how many people I've now offended...or lost as friends because of this post. I sure hope none. But, if that has happened, that, imho, is their loss...because they are, imho, taking my viewpoints/thoughts/feelings way too personally...and, imho, do not value friendship enough to overcome biases or attitudes that may not be equal to theirs.
Food for thought....
Keep the combative mood coming Cort. You make a great point.
I haven't posted anything here because, quite frankly, I hate "political" discussions, and try to avoid them if I can. I read the thread the first day, then stopped. Today, I decided to go through the whole thing and see what all the fuss was about. I know some posts have been deleted (since some comments don't make sense), but I have gotten the jist of the discusssion.
As someone who hates politics (I'm just too laid back to care, I guess), I was put into a unique situation this election. I have a friend who is VERY political and joined the Democratic party in campaining for Kerry. He is gay and believes wholeheartedly that with Bush as President his rights are going to be severed. I've been inundated with talk about this election for the last several months, no matter how hard I've tried to avoid it. When the results came through, my friend felt like the nation had slapped him in the face. He was adament that anyone that voted for Bush "voted for bigotry" (please note that those were HIS words, not mine). For him, the entire election (though he insisted otherwise) rested on ONE issue: gay rights.
My point in bringing this up is to point out two things, actually. First, we all have at least one big issue that effects our lives and is most important to us. What's most important to us may not be what is most important to the next person. And just because someone voted for one candidate or another doesn't mean that they agree with EVERYTHING that candidate says or does. It probably just means they agree with their stance on that one issue (or those few issues) that is most important to them.
Second, I don't know how much of my friend's push for Kerry was a like for Kerry himself, and how much was his extreme dislike of Bush. And I think that was the case for a lot of people. Some one said to me that the main problem with Kerry's campain was that he never became a person in his own right, he was just the "anti-Bush." It's almost easier to vote for the "devil you know" if you get what I mean.
With all that being said, I have to admit that I didn't vote for either candidate. I didn't make it to the polls, as I am a teacher and had to be at work before the polls opened, and with rehearsals, was at school until after they closed. I had intended to vote early, but circumstances didn't allow. I honestly cannot say who I would have voted for if I had made it to the polls. I had reasons for disliking both candidates. But I am fine with my country's choice. I believe that Bush will do the best job he can. After all, we must remember that even though he is President, he is still human.
As someone who hates politics (I'm just too laid back to care, I guess), I was put into a unique situation this election. I have a friend who is VERY political and joined the Democratic party in campaining for Kerry. He is gay and believes wholeheartedly that with Bush as President his rights are going to be severed. I've been inundated with talk about this election for the last several months, no matter how hard I've tried to avoid it. When the results came through, my friend felt like the nation had slapped him in the face. He was adament that anyone that voted for Bush "voted for bigotry" (please note that those were HIS words, not mine). For him, the entire election (though he insisted otherwise) rested on ONE issue: gay rights.
My point in bringing this up is to point out two things, actually. First, we all have at least one big issue that effects our lives and is most important to us. What's most important to us may not be what is most important to the next person. And just because someone voted for one candidate or another doesn't mean that they agree with EVERYTHING that candidate says or does. It probably just means they agree with their stance on that one issue (or those few issues) that is most important to them.
Second, I don't know how much of my friend's push for Kerry was a like for Kerry himself, and how much was his extreme dislike of Bush. And I think that was the case for a lot of people. Some one said to me that the main problem with Kerry's campain was that he never became a person in his own right, he was just the "anti-Bush." It's almost easier to vote for the "devil you know" if you get what I mean.
With all that being said, I have to admit that I didn't vote for either candidate. I didn't make it to the polls, as I am a teacher and had to be at work before the polls opened, and with rehearsals, was at school until after they closed. I had intended to vote early, but circumstances didn't allow. I honestly cannot say who I would have voted for if I had made it to the polls. I had reasons for disliking both candidates. But I am fine with my country's choice. I believe that Bush will do the best job he can. After all, we must remember that even though he is President, he is still human.
P
pegne
Erica, Please understand that when the majority of us voted for moral issues it was we thought it Was best for us and those around us. This is not something in my life that is negotiable. I believe the Clinton administration showed us that we had had enough when it came to the morality of our country. It was a wake up call. When we have to explain to five year olds why the news is always talking about oral sex and our president in the same sentence, we as parents/grandparents have a problem. The media has presented has George W as the cause of the scandal of Corporate America when in fact he is just cleaning up the mess of the Clinton Administration. The media tried to discredit George Bush's service in the national guard before getting all the facts and checking them. You see where that got Dan Rather and his cronies. I do believe that John Kerry lied about his service in Viet Nam. I believe that he received two purple hearts for self inflicted wounds. I believe he received a Bronze star for taking the life of a Vietnamese husband and son. In documents he told his superiors that he killed 5 Vietnamese and captured two. He killed two and the two he captured were a mother and infant child. I saw John Kerry as threat on my personal beliefs. Many would argue that you cannot bring your moral beliefs into this, that this is business and the economy should be the real issue. The polls asked if I was better off financially and no I can't say that I am. What I can say is that I have never voted for my pocketbook and I never will. The war is real and I pray for our soldiers and their families everyday. I pray this war ends quickly with as little causalities as possible. I do not like war nor will I ever like war but I see what the trade off would be and I can sleep at night knowing I voted the right way. I do not believe JK supporters are stupid. Not at all. I just believe that there are other issues that America has left by the wayside that re becoming important to us again.
Ross
Well-known member
*NOTE TO EVERYONE*
Some posts have been removed by the authors of those posts. I as Assist Admin did not remove them nor edit anything in any of these posts. This was done by the authors by their own free will and that is their right to do so. You do not see these deletion. I do and they are still there to be resurrected should anyone feel the need to chew me out about this. Ross did not touch anything in here. Ross merely closed this thread for a short time yesterday because of complaints received. After consulting all members, it was decided that the thread should continue and that those who do not like it do not have to read or participate in it. I'm growing very sick and tired of people making inferences that I have in someway changed or edited or removed anything in this thread. These are your assumptions and you are assuming dead wrong!
Thank you
Some posts have been removed by the authors of those posts. I as Assist Admin did not remove them nor edit anything in any of these posts. This was done by the authors by their own free will and that is their right to do so. You do not see these deletion. I do and they are still there to be resurrected should anyone feel the need to chew me out about this. Ross did not touch anything in here. Ross merely closed this thread for a short time yesterday because of complaints received. After consulting all members, it was decided that the thread should continue and that those who do not like it do not have to read or participate in it. I'm growing very sick and tired of people making inferences that I have in someway changed or edited or removed anything in this thread. These are your assumptions and you are assuming dead wrong!
Thank you
G
Guest
Karlynn said:
*nods*
Thank you.
As for that combative mood...it'll have to wait until tonight...or maybe tomorrow. I'm headed out in a few minutes to get my real Monte Carlos out for a nice drive...the first one since I have returned home, thanks to bad schedules and bad weather. But, it is beautiful out today, I feel better than I did last night...and I believe I'm about ready to burst to drive my "baby girls" again
.As for politics...heh...not so sure ya want me to get started on that topic, let alone Chevrolet, Tribune Co and NBC 5 Chicago.
*grins innocently*
R
Richard L
OK maybe I shouldn't intrude into private grief being from the UK, but the result does sort of have an effect beyond the USA.... and we're not happy.
Quite Frankly we just don't get it. I can't find a single UK voter from any political background who thinks that Bush is a Good idea. Even the Conservatives who were the natural allies of Republican party were giving their open support to Kerry. Infact the only pro-Bush voice in the UK predictably comes from the Rupert Murdoch owned Press.
The common perception of Bush in the UK & rest of Europe, (one that I share), is untrustworthy, of limited intelectual capacity, ingorant & uncaring of the rest of the world. With selective morality. A puppet of the Oil and Military-Industrial complex. Someone who abuses democracy domestically whilst claiming to champion it abroad. Above all we just cannot understand how he can be percieved of as a strong leader by Americans. Strength is the very last attribute that any one in the UK would bestow upon him.
Every American I've met (& i've talked to many in the UK and to my family& friends in the USA), was anti-Bush so where does his support come from?.... But then I'm told that 80% of Americans don't have passports and have never travelled out of the States, So by definition we don't get to meet, listen & speak to you and visa versa.
As a lifelong supporter of the Labour party (Tony Blair's party), I can no longer support Blair at the next U.K. election (May 2005). British Newspapers today report that around 3 million U.K. Labour party activists will withdraw their support from Blair at the next election as a direct protest over the war in Iraq following the Republican victory; over Blairs aquiesence to Bush and in particular the Bush/Blair attitude to the UN.
It's also reported in numerous places that Blair will try to manufacture a rift with and reprimand to Bush (probably over climate control & the Kyoto treaty) as a way of trying to reverse & repair the image Blair has in the U.K. of being Bush's Poodle. Its further reported that Bush has agreed not to retaliate, at least until after our elections. Blair is now so Isolated in the UK, even within his own political party that his position is untenable.
Blair would have stood a far better chance with Kerry in.
The political picture over here is slightly less straight forward in that, although it has appeared to be a two horse race between the Labour Party(left) & Conservatives(Right) for many years, we also have a third choice - The Liberal party (centre ground & anti Iraq war without UN backing) which did incidentally hold political office around 80 years ago!
It has a significant and large minority support enough to cause a "hung parliament", and is benefiting from a protest support from both Left and right.
Anyway I suppose the question that a great many people over here in UK is asking is Why Bush?. we really don't get it.
Quite Frankly we just don't get it. I can't find a single UK voter from any political background who thinks that Bush is a Good idea. Even the Conservatives who were the natural allies of Republican party were giving their open support to Kerry. Infact the only pro-Bush voice in the UK predictably comes from the Rupert Murdoch owned Press.
The common perception of Bush in the UK & rest of Europe, (one that I share), is untrustworthy, of limited intelectual capacity, ingorant & uncaring of the rest of the world. With selective morality. A puppet of the Oil and Military-Industrial complex. Someone who abuses democracy domestically whilst claiming to champion it abroad. Above all we just cannot understand how he can be percieved of as a strong leader by Americans. Strength is the very last attribute that any one in the UK would bestow upon him.
Every American I've met (& i've talked to many in the UK and to my family& friends in the USA), was anti-Bush so where does his support come from?.... But then I'm told that 80% of Americans don't have passports and have never travelled out of the States, So by definition we don't get to meet, listen & speak to you and visa versa.
As a lifelong supporter of the Labour party (Tony Blair's party), I can no longer support Blair at the next U.K. election (May 2005). British Newspapers today report that around 3 million U.K. Labour party activists will withdraw their support from Blair at the next election as a direct protest over the war in Iraq following the Republican victory; over Blairs aquiesence to Bush and in particular the Bush/Blair attitude to the UN.
It's also reported in numerous places that Blair will try to manufacture a rift with and reprimand to Bush (probably over climate control & the Kyoto treaty) as a way of trying to reverse & repair the image Blair has in the U.K. of being Bush's Poodle. Its further reported that Bush has agreed not to retaliate, at least until after our elections. Blair is now so Isolated in the UK, even within his own political party that his position is untenable.
Blair would have stood a far better chance with Kerry in.
The political picture over here is slightly less straight forward in that, although it has appeared to be a two horse race between the Labour Party(left) & Conservatives(Right) for many years, we also have a third choice - The Liberal party (centre ground & anti Iraq war without UN backing) which did incidentally hold political office around 80 years ago!
It has a significant and large minority support enough to cause a "hung parliament", and is benefiting from a protest support from both Left and right.
Anyway I suppose the question that a great many people over here in UK is asking is Why Bush?. we really don't get it.
