four more years....

[MelissaM]

You are guaranteed Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. . .

. . .unless you are gay.

The phrase "Christian Jihad" keeps running through my head. . .and I am a Christian.

The Catholic Church disgusted me with its threats this election. I received an email telling me that if I voted for Kerry, I would be a sinner and need attend confession before receiving communion. What happened to "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's, give to God what is God's?"

What kind of foolish scare tactics is this country buying into?

 

[Tom F.]

Discussion is good. In our country's history we have several times passed through periods where the discussion goes from "what shall we do" to "who are we" as a nation. The 1860's was just such a period, as perhaps was the 1920's and prohibition. I think we are again at that point where we are again trying to learn who we are as a nation. Make no mistake, I ranted loudly and often about Clinton. Its the Irish in me, I object to anyone in power.

Four years from today we will know if we are better off or not. Maybe Ross should save this thread and re-publish it then!

 

[bvdr]

I agree, Tom. I think we are at a crossroads where we are evaluating where we are going as a nation. There are so many of us from such diverse backgrounds and though we all "melt" we preserve much of what makes us individuals. Though our diversity holds our strength, it also makes governing our country extremely difficult.

 

[Karlynn]

Discussion is good. In our country's history we have several times passed through periods where the discussion goes from "what shall we do" to "who are we" as a nation. The 1860's was just such a period, as perhaps was the 1920's and prohibition. I think we are again at that point where we are again trying to learn who we are as a nation. Make no mistake, I ranted loudly and often about Clinton. Its the Irish in me, I object to anyone in power.

Four years from today we will know if we are better off or not. Maybe Ross should save this thread and re-publish it then!

Very well said Tom.

As for 4 years from now, no matter how good or how bad it gets, we'll have the Republican party saying it was fabulous and the Democratic party saying it was a nightmare. After all, the 2008 election starts in 2 years.

 

[tommy]

I feel hugely blessed to live in a country where we can change our leaders via ballot box rather than a casket.

 

[pegne]

I have not posted in a while but here goes

I have not posted in a while but here goes

I have been on other forums in the past two days and have seen just how divided we are as a nation. I have been called stupid, uneducated, a Nazi, fascist, a Klu Klux Klan member, a warmonger, an extremist and many, many other things that I prefer not to mention, because of my right to vote how I see fit. But the most hurtful thing I was called was UnAmerican. I can see the political differences in our country and it leaves me sad. We have far left, far right, moderate conservative, liberal conservative, independent and so on, and so on, and so on. I have heard people say they were leaving this great nation because of the results of this election, and I have heard people say that they are embarrassed to be an American. I have heard people from other countries belittle my fellow countrymen for voting the way they did. I believe the things that have made our country great over the years are the same things that have started to destroy and divide our country. We live in a society where we are allowed to voice our opinion. We can be diverse. I do not have to agree with anyone else's political or religious preferences and they do not have to believe in mine. But what we should agree on is how we handle things. I do believe we should respect each other. That does not mean I have to vote for your ideals or beliefs or that you should vote for mine, it means I should not belittle you for voting for them and you should not belittle me. If we do not understand this then terrorism, war and the economy are going to be the least of our problems. We need to come together. I am proud of the fact that I voted for President Bush just as I am sure many are proud of the way they voted. This election is over. If people are not happy with the results then work on 2008. God bless America

 

[Bryan B]

I've chosen not to join this discussion so far because I was allowed to voice my opinion by voting on Tuesday. That and I visit another site where it has been discussed feverishly for the last year (kinda burned out ). I like to come here to get away from it to tell you the truth. Having said that, it seems like the candidate I choose seems to wins half the time and lose half the time. And life has gone on win or lose. Usually my candidate does not live up to all his promises and the other candidate usually does not disappoint me as much as I thought he would.

P.S. Very well said pegne!

 

[tommy]

Thin skin

Thin skin

My earlier post was a weak attempt at voting "present". Here's why.

Political discourse tends to toughen and thicken our skins. I prefer to have a thin skin in here (maybe its the Coumadin ). So while I am passionate about many issues, and I voice them vehemently in other arenas, I will simply give everyone in here a quiet but very large cyber hug.

To me its not about four more years. Its about many more years than that. But it's also about taking one day at a time. Step by step. Click by click.

 

[geebee]

Short & Simple

Short & Simple

I voted for Bush. I respect everyone's views and I know this has been an emotional election.
I am just happy I live in a country where we can still decide who we want to govern and we can ALL speak our minds.
Smiles,
Gina

 

[Granbonny]

To Lighten the thread up a tad

To Lighten the thread up a tad

My favorite poll I saw last week......If you drive a pickup truck and live near a Wal-Mart...one tends to vote for Bush.........If you drive a forein car and live near a Starbucks..one tends to vote for Kerry.. Must be a lot of pickup trucks and Wal-marts between New York and California.( All the RED states... NO, I don't drive a pickup truck..but I do live near a Wal-Mart..and have never seen the inside of a Starbucks. ( And all of our cars are American made.) Bonnie

 

[MelissaM]

Pam - No worries. I am pretty worked up by this election. Someone could probably wave at me on the street and I would probably fly off the handle.

As my avatar says. . . "this too shall pass"

 

[tobagotwo]

I am concerned for many of the older folks on the site, and the many who are approaching that age.

In the 1980s, President Reagan said there is more money in Social Security than we will ever need, and more than we can ever spend. He then proceeded to push his party's Congress to raid the kitty. Three years after he left office, politicians were telling us that there isn't enough money to keep Social Security running, and people shouldn't think the government owes them a pension in their old age (forgetting, apparently, that these are the people who put the money in for their old age, which they had promised to safe-keep).

Now Mr. Bush has stated that one of his first orders of business for the new term will be to "fix" Social Security. As he has already spent $7,453,889,966,696.69 than the United states doesn't have, we must assume that he will not be fixing it by returning the money he has borrowed from us and our children, but rather by taking more away from our retirees and near-retirees, who have been paying into it all of their lives. Retirement will be delayed yet further, and benefits will be shaved closer.

He would also like to have us invest our theoretical Social Security money in the stock market, as he figures that would bolster stock values. He doesn't say who will bail all the seniors out when the market goes sour again and they lose their homes and their food budgets.

Not that it will affect him, or any members of Congress, who have their own retirement program, separate from Social Security.

Well, I guess we all should have just worked harder and made more money. We should have been wealthy actors like Mr. Reagan, or sons of oil barons like Mr. Bush. It's our own fault that we invested in the stock market when it went bust. Of course, that did happen during the tenures of Mr. Reagan and the senior Mr. Bush, didn't it?

What were all those retired people in Florida thinking as they cast their ballots?

The debt, from basically zero when he took office, is larger than it has ever been in the history of the nation. It is $25,292.04 for each man, woman and child in the United States, and increases by $1,67 billion dollars every day.

To put it in perspective, this administration has effectively mortgaged every home owned in the United states for about $100,000 each since it has controlled the purse strings. Your home, too. And mine.

I didn't care for Mr. Kerry, either, but what are we to live on when Mr. Bush is done?

I want Bill Clinton back.

 

[Nancy]

The problems with SS have been going on for many, many years, and way before Pres. Bush came into office. Everyone has wanted to "fix" it, but so far, no one has, in either party. I don't know what the answer to the "fix" might be, but I venture to guess there will be a great deal of sacrifice in the fix, whether Pres. Bush does it or whether someone in the Democratic party does it. Congress has a big part in all of this mess as well.

I honestly don't think anyone knows how to fix it without treading very, very heavily on many toes and hurting many folks in the process, and those who can least afford it. I believe that is why there hasn't been a fix yet. No one wants to go down in history as the ONE who did the deed. I think fixing SS is a no win situation, can't be done w/o hurt, no matter how it is done, or who does it.

But the fact remains that it has to be fixed, and someone will have to take the heat for it. God help the person under whose administration the fix is finally done. They will get no thanks, I'm afraid.

 

[djacq]

Sorry Everyone,

I have to join in the frustration of four more years of a president out of control and a more conservative supreme court that will bring down decisions of the new moral majority that are so intolerant while complaining of the intolerance of muslims. The disaster of the lack of health insurance and in this country is a national disgrace.

On that note, I am sad to say my son has left Rhode Island and is in Fort Bragg preparing to leave for Iraq. I can barely stand this. Losing so many friends in Viet Nam was enough for me. I no idea how I can handle this for the next year and a half! It scares me to think of the impact this war will have on those involved. In Viet Nam the soldiers were not used to the unconventional tactics (torture, mutilation), it was a war against an unidentified enemy, body counts instead of terrain objectives to measure victory were new to them. The planes were 20 years old and threw junk into the engines and the planes would blow up after awhile. The weapons were 30 years old and very often misfired. I am fearful of the similarities with this war in Iraq..

My son is a crew chief for Blackhawks helocopters in the Army National Guard.

Most National Guard units have left with what outdated equipment they had, hand me downs. They have started out with old, faulty and inadequate equipment. Families having to offer to pay to armor their vehicles and buy GPS and personal safety equipment.

Many in his unit are currently uninsured as their workplace cancelled their insurance and the military insurance has not kicked in yet. Loans at low interest rates are being offered to pay rent and mortgages as most are taking a cut in pay. My son is very fortunate not to suffer this indignity as Texas Instruments has been wonderful and are paying for his insurance and making up the difference in his pay. I am concerned of the 1-1 1/2 year loss in his career.

Eric's position in the helicopter is very open. They have closed it up some with armor and are saying they will add more to it before he goes. Please pray that they follow up on that as they have not kept their promise to armor road vehicles that are traveling the most dangerous of roads causing many young people's lives.

A soldier we know of is training the Iraqi National Guard. He was given night vision equipment and a pistol by the Iraqis' as he was not provided any from the Reserves. The list of needs I have for our men in Iraq are mind boggling.

My step daughter just returned from a year in Kuwait and the Army is sending her to Iraq in a few months.

Thank you for allowing me to vent. My heart can hardly stand this.

Donna

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Black Gold...

Black Gold...

From news on Yahoo today:

"As U.S. forces in Iraq mobilize for an all-out offensive in Fallujah and other Sunni militant strongholds, the president refused to say how much the war would cost or whether he planned to increase or cut troop strengths. "I have yet to hear from our commanders on the ground that they need more troops," the president said. He is expected to ask Congress early next year for up to $75 billion for Iraq, Afghanistan and operations against terrorism."

That's 75 buh, buh, buh billion folks! Where's it gonna come from? Your pockets folks, that's where... Nah, the commanders aren't saying they want more troops...cause just like my neighbor's son who was to come home after a year -- he never got to -- had his tour extended. And you think the draft won't be enacted? Ummm, wish I could be that optimistic. We're in this for the longterm -- this ain't no Vietnam! They didn't have oil....

GOD BLESS YOUR SON DONNA..

 

[Bryan B]

I honestly think this thread is getting a bit out of hand. JMO folks. And for the record, if it continues someone is going to get their feelings hurt. I'm seeing a lot of "finger pointing" here on both sides, but little in the way of facts to back them up. I understand that this was an emotional election and people need to vent, but we're at the edge of mudslinging here. It just doesn't seem to fit the nature of this site.

 

[Ross]

I wanted everyone to have a chance to vent their feelings freely. I'll be the first one to say that yes, this is a heated subject and feelings do run deep on both sides. I've asked that you remain civil about your posts and frankly, I think your doing a pretty good job of that. We don't need to argue who is right and who is wrong, who is in or who is out, but I do think this has left many with feelings that do need to be vented and while this isn't exactly a place for it, we all share in this pot.

Don't start mudslinging amongst each other. If you feel a need to speak out, speak out, but don't turn around and start in on someone else because of their beliefs and feelings. You may not like what someone else says or feels, but respect what they contribute and I expect them to offer you the same courtesy. I'm not jumping on those that have gone against what I believe and feel though I could very easily. It's just not needed.

Please keep it civil and respectful. You've all done well so far and for that I thank you.

 

[Bryan B]

Ross,

I guess what I'm saying is that I am reading a lot of statements here that I don't believe can be backed up with facts, only emotions. And some of the statements may also simply be misunderstandings from those who haven't studied some of the issues they speak of as closely as some of us (yes I'm talking about myself). So far I have chosen not to try and refute anything I've read because I don't want to stir the pot. I have too much respect and care too much about the people here to risk antagonizing any of them. At the same time I'm finding it more difficult with each post not to correct some errors I have seen stated as fact. I guess I'm saying that I understand the need to vent, but if people are going to place blame for specific issues they should be backed up with the facts.

Just let me know if you need those facts...I've got them handy.

 

[Bryan B]

Now that I've done my venting, maybe my best option in not to click on this thread...that should solve my problem. Just remember folks, as strong as everyone feels on both sides we are fortunate enough to live in the best country in the world.

With that, I'm going to test my ability to imitate Ross's avatar.

 

[Ross]

So noted. I myself have 415 pages of fact to back mine up. Couldn't find the original 686 pages.

I simply want to provide an avenue to get this off our chests and move on. I find it difficult to bite my tongue, but I'm doing it. I'm sure others can maintain also.