four more years....

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I posted early on so I'll clarify my position now that I've read all the other posts. Everyone else has cited valid opinions both for and against, but I'm going to broach one beef I have with him from a professional standpoint: No Child Left Behind Act. Try to be a teacher in this day and age and have to produce the results this act requires -- and with not enough Federal funding! I teach in Kentucky, and thanks to our reform movement (KERA) over a decade ago, we already have extremely high standards regarding testing. NCLB forces the bar even higher. There are states that needed a good swift kick in the butt, but KY is certainly not one of them. At some point, people need to realize that teachers are human beings, not magicians. We do the best we can, and in the kids' defense, they generally do the best they can. But just how good an indicator of learning are these standardized tests?

Geez, I could go on forever, but I'll stop. My main tirade earlier involved a ultra-right wing Southern IN Congressman who just won his umpteenth term. All I can do is just scratch my head on that one.
 
Ha Ha...that didn't last long...I already looked. :D

I guess being president is kind of like being a coach. When things are going well he gets too much of the credit and when things are going wrong he gets too much of the blame. I just wonder how a different president would have done if faced with the same set of circumstances Bush was dealt early in his 1st term.
 
Sherry,

I do feel for the position teachers are in today, but I would like to remind you that "No child left behind" was a bi-partisan bill endorsed by Ted Kennedy of all people. I guess that's my whole point here. Politics in Wasington is rarely black and white...but a whole lot of gray. While the President does have an agenda, laws are passed by congress...money is spent by congress...I could go on and on. I think if the line item veto was brought back it would allow the president to pass bills and have the ability to cut the fat out of many bills that have frivolus add ons attached to them.

Uh oh Janie...be careful what you ask for. I don't spit...I spew. ;)
 
I'm conservative, I'm in the middle class that benefited from Bush's tax cuts :D , I would like to see a flat tax with no write-offs, I'm a Texan, I voted for Bush. That's that.

Sherry - About No Child Left Behind
I'm a teacher in Texas so I've been dealing with it for some time now, both as a parent and a teacher. We've been accused of teaching the test, to which I reply, "No, I teach the curriculum and the test is aligned with the curriculum. Imagine that!" I'm in one of the largest districts in the state with a large Economically Disadvantaged and ESL population. We are required to offer the bilingual program in several different languages, including Spanish, Vietnamese, Urdu, Tagalog, Chinese, and Arabic. We have even higher goals than the state goals for No Child Left Behind. AND...we are the largest district in Texas to attain and maintain a Recognized rating. We aren't magicians, but it can be done. Of course, it takes a lot of dedicated teachers willing to give a lot of their own time, which I'm sure that you do already.
 
YIKES!

Now I'm feeling really small.... :eek:


I needed to get some stuff off my chest. I'm glad it brought about some discussion and I think that's really important, for everyone in the US right now.


I think what's most important to me is that people understand what ramifications, good or bad, come from their decisions. Bush is known for being against abortion, against alternative sexuality, for oil and big business and big government. He's known for giving tax breaks to the upper "10 percent" of the population and cutting out aid and services for the lowest "10 percent". He's not a very good public speaker unless he's reading from a script. He's not very quick on the draw and frankly, I'm not so sure he stands up to make his own decisions on the hardest of issues.


Kerry is known for following the tide of public opinion on a LOT of his choices. He voted to invade Iraq but he's against the war now. He made his money suing healthcare providers which is the biggest reason why healthcare is so expensive now. Kerry is, more or less, pro choice but he refuses to say so directly. The same on gay marriage.


Fair warning, don't get me started on rights over gender/sexual orientation and the like, it won't be pretty.


Frankly, I don't like EITHER candidate. I sat for a few months and weighed my options. I listened to the rhetoric and the debates and the evidence that was available at the time and made a decision on who I thought would screw things up the least.

If Kerry made mistakes, he'd have to fix 'em fast if he wanted to have another four years in office. Bush can do no wrong now. He can't get elected for a third term, he's done, he's in the home stretch and barring an extreme act of stupidity that gets him impeached, he can do whatever the hell he wants.

He is the law of the land and he can do damn well what he pleases, there are no consequences to screw.

I see meaningful stem cell research being done all over the world but not in the US. I see medical and prescription expenses shooting through the roof along with oil, taxes for the middle and lower class. I see the rights of minority groups being trampled, disenfranchised blacks, latinos, and hispanics. I see the "War on Terror" as an excuse to trample all over the rights of several different groups of people all over the world and here at home. I see our troops fighting in Iraq for at least the next four years and our armed forces being wittled away from both ends of the candlestick. Lower pay, reduced healthcare, longer tours, more hardship, more recruiting.

I don't neccesarily see a draft, but it's possible at least on some limited basis.

I see Bush's religious preferences being imposed on the masses and that scares me a LOT. Granted, a LOT of people all over the world feel just like he does on religion, but not everyone and it's the people who DON'T have his faith that I worry about the most.


I see dark clouds on the horizon....
 
Help me understand

Help me understand

I don't mean to mudsling and I am asking this out of pure curiousity. Is it at all possible that the Democrats of this country are partly to blame in the loss of this election? What I am getting at, is back in Mar. there was a primary election. The Democrats voted to have John Kerry run against George W. They had many nominees to choose from ( if I were a democratic I would have gone with Edwards) but JK won. At that time George W was starting to become less and less popular with the American people. The war was getting bloody, the economy didn't look very good, our President has been dragged through the mud by Democrats, the liberal media and all of Hollywood (Michael Moore, Martin Sheen, Alex Baldwin to name a few). Farenheit 911 was released with all the media hype behind it. Common sense tells me every independent in the country should have voted for JK. He just wasn't sellable. He was not well liked. Not only by the republicans and indepentants but also by many in his own party. Many felt they did not know this man. More than that felt they could not trust this man. President Bush was just more of a likable person. All these facts tell me that the Democratic party picked the wrong person to run against the President.
 
A personal history lesson

A personal history lesson

I think political discourse has become much too polarized in our country. You are either for it or against it, for me or against me. Believe all of what I tell you or don't believe me at all. I think it's very hard for us.

My grandfather was a newspaper man from Bloomington Illinois. He was editor and then General Manager of the local paper. His life-long friend was Adlai Stevenson because they both grew up in Bloomington. (For those of you too young to remember, Adlai Stevenson lost 2 presidential elections to Eisenhower. He was also UN Ambassador) My grandfather, all 5 feet of him, was a die-hard, firecracker, no-holds-barred Republican.

When Adlai would come to town, they would sometimes get together, around my grandma's kitchen table, for a little "discussion". My grandmother would put a pot of coffee on the table and run to the seclusion of her bedroom. I guess their "discussions" could get rather heated. Lots of pounding on the table, lots of yelling, lots of laughing, lots of "you're out of your mind". My grandmother often says they fell just short of coming to blows. One particular story she told was of hearing my grandfather yell "I wouldn't vote for you for president if you were the last man on the face of the earth." And he didn't either time. However, he always spoke of his friend Adlai with pride and a smile.

When my grandfather died (not to long before Adlai did) my grandmother received a warm telegram form Aldai speaking of the grief he felt at the loss of his friend.

This has always been a good moral lesson for me. I can disagree, sometimes vehemently, with those I love, even those I admire, but there has to be a point where you don't let someone elses political views shape your perception of them as a total person. I think we share our souls on this web site. We cry for, worry for, rejoice for, pray for and laugh with each other here. Let's be careful not to let our political opinions cross that line where they change the shape of those we hold in our...slightly defective... hearts.
 
I think part of the change is the internet. I think our forum is the exception, but many people on message forums I have participated in treat people as if they were not human. When you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet one is more likely to say things they would not say to a person face to face because they can do so with impunity. That's why I love this forum and the people who participate here. We are more of a family than any other forum I've ever participated in. I guess that's why I became uncomfortable when the discussion became somewhat heated. I should have known better that our family would be able to discuss the issues without resorting to some of the fighting I've experienced elsewhere. And I feel very fortunate to be a part of this family. :)
 
I was somewhat amused that we had far, FAR more coverage of the US election that we did our own (which was a few weeks ago). As far as the choice of candidates, I don't really feel qualified to comment, although I will say that they're all much of a muchness. Even with our candidates you can't believe half the things that come out there mouths and the other half is probably lies! It's amazing the promises and money they come up with when they're looking for a vote (Bob Hawke: "No Australian child will be living in poverty by 1990" - HA!!).

We are also struggling with underfunded hospitals, schools and police services, yet there is still money to pay politicians big fat super annuation pay-outs (while they look to eliminate old age pensions) and travel jaunts with their families, etc, etc, etc. We struggle to find shelter for our homeless, yet send millions of dollars in aid overseas each year. We pay some of the highest income tax rates in the world, had a GST introduced (by the man who would "never, ever introduce a GST") which was meant to eliminate a multitude of other taxes..... which are still in place.

I guess my point is whoever the candidates may be, they will have their good points and their bad, for every group they please, another group will be p*ssed, and at the end of the day their little clique always seem to come out pretty well off while the "ordinary man" struggles to pay the bills.

And that's my 2c!

Anna : )
 
The "sellability" of this election is EXACTLY what I am so upset about. I SO STRONGLY believe that MANY Americans who voted for George Bush were "sold" a bill of goods through $600 million dollars worth of advertising and never bothered to look behind the advertising. George Bush "sells" himself as a moral man -but how do you measure his morality?

Because he goes to church?
John Kerry goes to church - how is this different?

Because he prays?
John Kerry prays - does Bush pray better?

Because he respects life?
Is he respecting the life of the people he is killing in Iraq?

Because he is strong on terror?
His myopic focus on Iraq leaves us exposed to Iran, North Korea, terrorist cells in Malaysia, Bali, Spain - the list goes on
(http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200410/fallows)

Because he mislead the public on the War in Iraq?
If you believe otherwise, did you do your homework? There are primary sources describing how Colin Powell was coerced to present the White House version of the facts to the U.N. - his decision not to stay for a second term was announded shortly thereafter.

The next time you convince yourself that George Bush is a moral man, ask yourself if it is because you saw it on a commercial, heard it in a speech, or truly did your research. Many, many Americans made their decisions on 30 second commercials - did you?

Melissa
 
pegne said:
All these facts tell me that the Democratic party picked the wrong person to run against the President.

So can our Democratic members shed some light on why Kerry was chosen, if you have an idea as to why? I was somewhat mystified about his nomination, so I'm asking this in a purely interested way, not a critical way.
 
Newsweek is just now releasing a seven-chapter report that chronicals the election, starting with the primaries. It details the Democratic Primary and why John Kerry was chosen. Basically, he was the most tenured and "presidential" of the bunch.

Howard Dean - ran a good Internet campaign, but imploded
John Edwards - lacked experience needed to pull the campaign together
Wesley Clark - also too inexperienced to pull of a presidential bid

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6406877/site/newsweek/

Melissa
 
Karlynn and Bryan, I totally agree with you!! Enough is enough and I'm with you, Bryan....I have to stop reading this thread because I personally think it's getting out of control.

This is a place we come for support and friendship, not fighting and bashing!!

I love my VR family and hate to see this animosity between us!! I think there are better places to argue over politcal issues than on this website.

As for me....I'm done with this thread. :)
 
Harpoon said:
I see Bush's religious preferences being imposed on the masses and that scares me a LOT. Granted, a LOT of people all over the world feel just like he does on religion, but not everyone and it's the people who DON'T have his faith that I worry about the most.

That's funny because I feel like those of us who share his religious preferences often have the least voice. At school we have a daily quote during announcements and recently it was a quote from Mohammed. Strangely enough, there's never been a quote from Jesus Christ, and he has some pretty good ones. We are also required to teach Hanukkah and Kwanzaa, but aren't allowed to teach the Christian side of Christmas. Hmmmm.....
 
Dee said:
This is a place we come for support and friendship, not fighting and bashing!!

I love my VR family and hate to see this animosity between us!! I think there are better places to argue over politcal issues than on this website.

As for me....I'm done with this thread. :)

Yep, me too. I know I have to quit when I read a post that makes me want to cry and I just did that. I felt personally attacked for the first time and I have a pretty thick skin. I understand the person is very upset with the outcome of the election, but my understanding gets clouded when my intelligence is called into question. So enough for me.
 
I'm out too but not without parting comments. I was fascinated, as I have been all during the campaign, by other people's point of view. I think the varied opinions and ideas are what makes this country great. I have always respected other's views, lifestyles, etc. and only ask the same.
My choices were made based on STRONG facts and history surrounding President Bush. I think he has made some very unpopular decisions and even some I have disagreed with. However, if this country is not safe and secure, none of the other freedoms we enjoy matter. Whether you agree with the war in Iraq or not, the world was getting entirely too angry at the US (mind you this anger started long before Mr. Bush was in office) and we would have had many more attacks like 9/11 if we had not taken a stand.
I do not hold myself out as an expert in politics. I do not need to be totally familar with everything that is out there to make a decision on my president. I have to make a choice based on my knowledge and ability to look at the choices and the promises and determine which I believe.
I am not a diehard republican. If I had been presented a better choice, I might have voted differently. However, right here, right now, I have made my choice and it was made with a great deal of thought and not based on what I have been fed and certainly not influenced by the likes of Michael Moore. If there was ever a mistake the Democrats made this time it was to allign themselves with him.
Smiles forever, :)
Gina
 
Isn't it interesting that Michael Moore was so well known at the Republican convention - here's an except from his today's letter:

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out --
and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work
that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th
grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the
next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his
point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the
Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that
history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and
arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
office.
 
From a Canadian

From a Canadian

Media coverage before and after the election had a pronounced anti-Bush pro Kerry bias here in Canada and I e-mailed my displeasure to the local news station.

This bias continued following the election giving more air time to the Kerry loss than the Bush win. How typically Canadian.

the American people have spoken, the American people are right--God bless America and I continue to wear my Stars and stripes crossed with the Maple leaf flag lapel pin I bought following 9/11.

Just my two cents worth.
 
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