four more years....

[bvdr]

Thanks, Richard, for your interesting post. As you have noticed, many Americans view Bush similar to how you view him. There are others of us though who look through some of his surface flaws and actually see a man with depth and strength. History will eventually show which side had the better read of the man. I, for one, have appreciated the support Tony Blair has given to Bush. So much of our history has originated from Great Britian and we have stood side by side for many years. We do remain different countries though and do view the world from our own perspectives.

 

[Karlynn]

I don't quite understand the Gay issue in this election. Both candidates said they were against Gay marriage. The difference was that one wanted the states to decide and the other wanted a Constitutional Amendment. When you explore further, the decision being made state by state makes for a huge mess. States must decide if they will recognize marriages that are legal in one state but not in theirs. It would be a nightmare. To push for a Constitutional amendment is also letting the states decide. A Constitutional Amendment must be ratified by a majority of the states. So the states are deciding. The difference is that all are bound by the majority decision. Then states do not have (if I am correct) the right to create a law that is contrary to our US Constitution.

I have friends that are Gay. Even they are divided on this issue. I don't know quite exactly what I think on this issue. I just know that both candidates did - and it was the same position.

 

[Billy]

Hey Richard.....

Hey Richard.....

Richard......

Good to see your post. Proves one thing, that ole 'Dip Van Wrinkle' the Navy guy on post #76 was wrong when he accused the 'English' of being 'UNTHINKING.'

I imagine you probably didn't bother to read through it all.......wise decision on your part.......

Cheers,
Billy

 

[hensylee]

Richard, at least 49% of us agree with you.

Seems there was an underlying campaign going on that had to do with religion and it was waged over the past 4 years, reaping that extra 2% for G Dubya Bush.

I have been following your Tony Blair. He's a smart man, at least he seemed always to be. I cannot understand how he was drawn in on this Iraq war. But then, lots of people are. He had the most to lose, tho, of all the other countries in the so-called 'alliance'. I seriously doubt he will make a come-back. Some of us are paying attention to the UK, too.

 

[pegne]

Richard

Richard

Although I respect your opinion, I could not disagree with you and the majority of EU more. I do have one question though. Just how Conservative is your Conservative party? What is legal and illegal in the EU? I really do not know but would like to. Do you bring God into government? Are you allowed to? If you could answer these questions it will give me sense of how to base your post.

 

[Sherry]

"No child left behind" was a bi-partisan bill endorsed by Ted Kennedy of all people.

Here's the website link to all the information as to who sponsored the act. It was equally supported by Republicans and Demoncrats alike.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d107:4:./temp/~bdHHj5@@P|/bss/d107query.html|

 

[Karlynn]

Here's the website link to all the information as to who sponsored the act. It was equally supported by Republicans and Demoncrats alike.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d107:4:./temp/~bdHHj5@@P|/bss/d107query.html|

Sherry, this link didn't work for me. It there another way to get to it? Thanks.

 

[Harpoon]

Media coverage before and after the election had a pronounced anti-Bush pro Kerry bias here in Canada and I e-mailed my displeasure to the local news station.

This bias continued following the election giving more air time to the Kerry loss than the Bush win. How typically Canadian.

the American people have spoken, the American people are right--God bless America and I continue to wear my Stars and stripes crossed with the Maple leaf flag lapel pin I bought following 9/11.

Just my two cents worth.

As I understand it (I watch a LOT of CBC news coverage because I get sick of the US crap and I'm well within the viewing radius of Hamilton and Toronto television stations - and radio for that matter) Bush won't speak to Canadian politicians. In fact, in reports that I've seen, Bush is downright arrogant and snobbish towards his Canadian counterpart and it's put a real damper on cross-border relations in a lot of different fronts.

I think a LOT of Canadians were looking to Kerry as a means of repairing some of the broken ties that have been flapping in the breeze for the past four years.

 

[Sherry]

Hey, Karlynn,
Check this one out. (Click on the Co-Sponsors link.)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.R.1:

 

[breakingwaves]

I am not quick to throw out the baby with the bath water, I do think Kerry was a good choice, I think some are forgetting how close this election really was. When I think of how many others could have been taken to the cleaners for some character assassination, it is surprising to me that it was only a record for serving our country that was challenged. I kept thinking to myself, at least he has had a voting record of 20 years of service to our country to be challenged,

An excellent documentary was shown here on public tv that outlined how both candidates came into winning prior elections, and Bush's negative tactics and ability to use his faith has been purposeful and effective.

We, in my opinion, are not talking about a great leader here, from many many sources over the past four years, I can say that with confidence. It is amusing to me that so many media have changed their perceptions in a day. As I see it, it wasn't a landslide for Bush,and most all of the reporting stated as the votes came in that the red states were not surprising because of the party factor not the Bush factor. The big numbers in my opinion came from the motivation out of the fear that his current record and mismanagement just might do the party in this time, so inspite of himself, alot of people were working on those people voting. I mean really, 30 cars were rented to take people to the polls, even if they were vandalized, I am sure they were replaced and isn't anyone surprised that was a demonstration of fair vote getting in the first place?

Did anyone else catch the election issue of newsweek, that kinda confirmed some of my thinking.

I had an experience some years back right before the first GW Bush campaign occurred that brought me to attend a republican party gun club event that was presenting a check to my organization that I was representing. A couple of things happened that night that still have my jaw dropping today and gave me some insight in how some rural folks, these in Pa think. First they didn't know I was democratic, second they forgot I was there and conducted their meeting in the usual way, I came away, in a big hurry to get out of there at the end of the meeting, in this case, hearing the hate that these particular people expressed for my political party and the talk of what they would do to defeat anyone who represented it during the elections. It just so happened that I was invited to this event from one of my organizations board members who just happened to be the assistant to one of our town's senators.

I got quite a real education that night and I can only imagine a similar type of rally with more southern states passion involved. So it does not surprise me that our country is robed in red and that the method to win this or any election is so strong and the tactics so bold.

It could have been my puppy that ran and I believe he would have been defeated, I give Kerry credit for getting so close. We have some big problems in this country and to me the evidence from this election tells me they are spreading.

As far as my disrespect for good old George, my grand daughter put it best, " Well, Mom, at least he won't be able to run again" and for now I will settle for that. LOL!

I don't mean to offend anyone, but getting older and facing some big issues tends to bring me to be more out spoken these days. So to borrow a phrase, " at least you know where I stand".

 

[pegne]

breaking

breaking

I respect your opinion but I believe there were negative tactics used on both sides. This was singularly the most dirty election I have ever seen. The twenty year voting record from JK was a real problem for many voters. Nobody really knew where he stood. At least everyone knew where GB stands. Real people of faith understand that GW did not use his faith to win re-election. He lives it. In this day and age where faith is slowly taking a back seat in politics, and in our nation, I believe it could have been political suicide to run on a faith based agenda. He chose to run on this agenda and then when he won people of faith are accused of voting for him out of fear. His character played a large role in this too. I do believe the media and Jk tried to bring Bush's' military record into play and it cam back to bite him right in the butt. That is when Kerry's' military service came into play and the horror he imposed on our Viet Nam servicemen when he joined forces with Jane Fonda in an attempt to show the nation, and the world, that the US military was noting but a bunch of murderers, rapists, and pillagers, for political gain. Leaving many POWs in grave danger. This is the exact character of this man.

You speak of the hate from the republican party but from what I have seen in the last 4 years is that there is much hate on both sides. I have seen the hate from the democrats, immensely, since this election. I have never heard such an unAmerican reaction since the protests of the war in Viet Nam. Over the years, in particularly the last 12, it is becoming increasingly apparent that the main stream media has been supporting the democratic party. Even to the point where there has been a lack of abiding by the rules and obligations of reporting, To check and recheck the facts and sources before they run a story. If the American people can't see that then theirs heads are in the sand.

I don't claim to know what the answers are to to divisibility of this country right now. I do know, however, that if people do not start realizing what that will do, we are in big trouble. I know one thing. If this election were to have gone the other way I, my reaction would have been that I am an American first before I am any kind of political party person. I just do not seem to see the same sentiments from the other side, and that IS shameful.

 

[Karlynn]

Sherry, thanks for the link. It's a long document so I bookmarked it to continue reading it a piece at a time.

I have to confess that I find some small sense of childish satisfaction when I hear people speak of having to live with 4 more years of Bush. Because that is how many of us felt with President Clinton. That is the way the opposing party always feels. I am a Republican, but I have supported many Democrats for office. No Presidential candidates as yet, but I am not a straight ticket voter. I had an instintual reaction to Bill Clinton when he ran in the Primaries for his first term. I felt he was incredibly dishonest and charming then. He never proved me wrong. But I survived 8 years of a Clinton administration and those of you who didn't vote for Bush will survive 8 years of his administration.

I have come to find - since the Carter administration, that if I complain and say there is nothing about a President (or other politician in office) that I can agree with, or even find a small portion of agreement with, than I am not being honest with myself and taking a full look at the person and their accomplishments. To do so, puts up walls that make it hard for our country to come together.

 

[pegne]

Karlynn

Karlynn

I too have never been a straight ticket voter. One example in this state is Keyes vs. Obama. I certainly felt that Obama was the better choice. I believe that he will do our state a lot of good. I also believe that we will also see him running for President one day.

 

[Mary]

I respect your opinion but I believe there were negative tactics used on both sides. Real people of faith understand that GW did not use his faith to win re-election.

Would you mind explaining how one determines who the Real people of faith are? I have always believed that I have real faith, but I don't totally agree with your assessment of President Bush. According to your statement, then you are categorizing me as a person with false faith or do you not consider me a real person?
In either instance, you're wrong.
Mary

 

[Sherry]

Amen, Sister Mary

 

[pegne]

I'm sorry I should have said most real people of faith. My sincere apologies.

 

[breakingwaves]

Pegne

Pegne

Having been raised Southern Baptist where my parents were charter members and I taught Sunday school, my faith seemed pretty real to me.

Having graduated high school in 1968, I knew a great deal about sadness and a sense of loss, going to the funerals of some of my best friends from Vietnam as well.

I have watched a great many Presidents get themselves in and out of trouble, having had a front row seat to the Watergate hearings, the Iran Contra Hearings, and those endlessly boring Linda Tripp tapes. I daresay they won't be the last of our Presidents to be in or out of hot water. President Lyndon Johnson had some trouble trying to explain away the Vietnam wars as well.

I have also come to know real hatred up close, as a teenager in the 60's, I experienced some of my black neighbors and friends who lived down the dirt road I walked to the bus stop each day, being very mistreated and where we went to church in Baltimore Maryland, the race riots were an event of our times. I came to know that hatred is an emotion totally void of anything good or productive and is a pure waste of the human spirit in my opinion.

I believe that we have a country that is very capable of healing itself, despite who is sitting in the oval office and I know that the true hearts of Americans are tuned to benefitting our neighbors and demonstrating continuing courage in helping others, so despite what happened last week, we will all do the right thing in the end.

 

[Karlynn]

I believe that we have a country that is very capable of healing itself, despite who is sitting in the oval office and I know that the true hearts of Americans are tuned to benefitting our neighbors and demonstrating continuing courage in helping others, so despite what happened last week, we will all do the right thing in the end.

Could not have been said any better. Thank you.

 

[Guest]

...I believe there were negative tactics used on both sides.

*rolls eyes*

And this is what turns me off to politics. The dirty campaigns.

Why on earth do we "allow" candidates to get away with this type of trashy campaigns and let companies get away with murder?

Why on earth do we "allow" people to attack other individuals...and let companies get away with murder?

Frankly, this is a double standard that has to stop. If we don't practice what we preach, then how can we judge others?

*shrugs*

It is when the campaigns get dirty that I start making wisecracks (out loud to the TV, mind you) about how the candidates should also vow to hold companies accountable for their actions...how candidates should prosecute companies for deceptive practices...how candidates should pledge to ensure that everyone has equal opportunity for health insurance, etc. etc. etc.

But, then again, what the hell do I know?

*grins*

Then again...at least I know how to count ballots .

*grins*

With the debacle in FL in the last election, a friend of mine happened to be watching the news when the FL Secretary of State (I think that's the title) rode into the capital to oversea the recounting process. Any guesses what she arrived in?

A 1995-1999 "monte carlo"...one of those gosh darn black sheep 5th gens.

Grrr...

My friend called me up and simply said:
I now know why FL can't count ballots. They think their Secretary of State is riding in a Monte Carlo.

*grins*

I told you I get combative...and a bit sarcastic .

 

[djacq]

The members of VR are very informed and articulate and this thread has been a facinating read. It is our own microcosm and window to the world. Our diverse opinions so enrich this site and I am glad that we are free to express them.

I noticed today that there were 1737 hits on this thread.

Does that beat the sex thread Ross?

Donna