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Religion and Faith

  • I?ve always had a strong faith and this hasn?t been affected by my condition/surgery.

    Votes: 42 62.7%
  • I didn?t have a (strong) faith prior to learning about my condition/surgery, but do now.

    Votes: 5 7.5%
  • I have always been atheist/agnostic regardless of my surgery/learning of my condition.

    Votes: 19 28.4%
  • I had a strong faith prior to surgery/learning about my condition, but don?t now.

    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    67
I had to pick number 1. I believe, but also agree that you should be able to celebreate in you own way. I have not made a habit of going to church a priority.
 
I believe in God, but the churches I've been to have been filled with hypocrites. I got a little tired of the goodie two shoes crap on Sunday and back stabbings on Monday. You know the types, they'll bend over for you backwards and do summersults on Sunday in front of others to help you, but come Monday, they don't even know who you are and place stumbling blocks in front of you to screw your journey as best they can.

I do my own thing, my own way.
 
I believe in God, but the churches I've been to have been filled with hypocrites. I got a little tired of the goodie two shoes crap on Sunday and back stabbings on Monday. You know the types, they'll bend over for you backwards and do summersults on Sunday in front of others to help you, but come Monday, they don't even know who you are and place stumbling blocks in front of you to screw your journey as best they can.

I do my own thing, my own way.

Yes..there are many hypocrites in churches, but aren't there hypocrites everywhere? I go to church to worship my God, not for any other reason. It could just be me and my Pastor and that would be dandy! The older I get, I need the weekly reminder that this is not all there is...I loved what you posted earlier Ross about this better not be it! Deb
 
Yes..there are many hypocrites in churches, but aren't there hypocrites everywhere? I go to church to worship my God, not for any other reason. It could just be me and my Pastor and that would be dandy! The older I get, I need the weekly reminder that this is not all there is...I loved what you posted earlier Ross about this better not be it! Deb

Yes there are hypocrites everywhere, but this brand I'm talking about nearly destroyed the church I belonged too. Yes, it was that bad. After that, I started going to my dads church, which is largely of old Dutch/Amish faith and being adopted, wasn't even considered a part of that picture. Nothing like going to church and being totally ignored.

Guess I should say I've never had a good experience in any church.
 
Yes there are hypocrites everywhere, but this brand I'm talking about nearly destroyed the church I belonged too. Yes, it was that bad. After that, I started going to my dads church, which is largely of old Dutch/Amish faith and being adopted, wasn't even considered a part of that picture. Nothing like going to church and being totally ignored.

Guess I should say I've never had a good experience in any church.

That is horrible Ross!!! I am sorry you had to go through that!!!
 
Like CS Lewis I started as an agnostic and reason brought me to a belief in God. I am also a former preacher. I still attend and have a strong faith in God but like Ross have little use for the church games and the institutional church. IMO if this life is all there is life is a cruel joke.
 
Yes there are hypocrites everywhere, but this brand I'm talking about nearly destroyed the church I belonged too. Yes, it was that bad. After that, I started going to my dads church, which is largely of old Dutch/Amish faith and being adopted, wasn't even considered a part of that picture. Nothing like going to church and being totally ignored.

Guess I should say I've never had a good experience in any church.

Sorry to hear you experienced that Ross, so many Christians experience that, but there good Churches out there, just hard to find. Remember a church is not the building, it is the body of Christ, which is the people. I belong to a small church, non denominational, and we are a bible believing church. I am a person who believes you need to go to church, not just because you are a Christian and that is something you do, it is because that is how you learn. It is very hard to learn everything you need to know about the bible on your own. You need good teachers and they are hard to find also. The more you are around real Christians, the more you learn and the more you are held accountable and the harder it is to fall away. The trick is to find the right church that teaches from the word of God, and does not teach from the world.
Those hypocrites you mention obviously did not learn anything from the word of God, and they are lost. Christians are not perfect, just forgiven! We will not be perfect until that day we meet Jesus face to face, until then we do the best we can and hopefully be Christ like.
God has a plan for everyone, it is your choice to follow that plan, or to go your own way, it is freewill which He gave us. I chose to follow God's plan for me, it is not easy at all, but it has eternal rewards!
God bless,
 
I voted #1 and nice to see everyone is entitled
to believe how they feel and no pressures on this post
over this.
It shouldnot effect or hinder everyones choices to
be here as we all do agree we have heart issues in common
and that matters here;)

zipper2 (DEB)
 
An interesting thread... Born into an Irish catholic family with all my grandfathers brothers being priests it may seem strange that I'm not in the slightest bit religious, I was never brainwashed with it all at an early age, rather bought up to be pragmatic and to make my own mind up about such things... I didn't get it, and I really still dont ? God ? Who is God, who is the Holy Ghost, where does Jesus fit in and how on Earth was Mary a virgin ? Feel free to help me out here ? We just had Easter, a massive celebration for the death and coming back to life of Jesus, but of course the word Easter is a Pagon word and was a Pagon festival which came from the Anglo saxon word for April "Eostre monath". Surely if Easter wasn't just hijacked as a Christian festival then it would be on the same day every year and not moved dependent on the position of the moon as the Pagons would have done? Surely if Jesus was Jewish then the celebration should be "Pascha" or the Passover anyway ?
I just dont get how people can have such faith in these stories ? God, Jesus, Father Christmas and even the Tooth fairies...Why is it that we soon grow out of believing in some but not others ?
I find life and nature quite staggering and really do have little idea as to why we're here or what we're supposed to be doing, other than muddling along, working, helping, learning, listening and nurturing... But as for there being an all seeing all knowing chap with a beard up there in heaven who created it all for us, then to my mind that has to be nothing more than a story. Maybe it has something to do with "God fearing" and control in days of old, to scare the masses into behaving, working and paying taxes ?
And let us not forget something very important, hundreds of years ago life was much much tougher than it is today, life would have been really hard work, cold, often hungry and little in the way of pain relief or medication. The idea of dying then would have been a treat, a massive relief to most. People would die in agony from a simple tooth infection or even a splinter or nasty cut ? Once these people in their masses began to truely fear God and believe in Heaven then the powers that be were laughing, absolute control?
But people still believe these ancient tales of Gods and Heavens designed and written for power, fear and control ... and of course still responsible for most of the worlds power, fear and control even today ? Strangely enough the worlds biggest real estate owner is the Roman Catholic church and I think McDonalds might even be the second... Make of that what you will ?
I dont fear death because of some silly notion about going to, by now a very overcrowded heaven and meeting God or the Holy ghost or Jesus, never quite sure which one it is, I just dont fear it because to me it's as natural as birth, and I dont remember being fed up for millions of years before I was born, so I'm sure I wont be for millions of years after I die ? Going under general anaesthetic for the first time in December actually made me more comfortable about the whole dying thing because it really was and must be like falling into a deep sleep...
Anyway... There wasn't really an option for me in this poll, because I certainly believe in something, as there's no doubting the power of positive thinking or love or good will...
Oh, and I'm definately not a Hippy, I've just not figured it out yet...
 
Woodbutcher, I have to admit that I skimmed your post, because I tend to have a short attention span. However, I got the gist of it. Belief in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is a matter of faith. There have been things in my life that point me there, and even a few things that make me question it. However, my faith always wins out! One of my "come to Jesus" moments was after I gave birth to my first beautiful baby. I understand the science behind cell division and all, but when you think of the magnificent being that results from what started out as "spit and polish" ;), how can you not believe that there is a higher power behind it? Think about a tiny acorn that grows into a huge oak tree. How is that possible without a higher power? Again, I understand the science, but I think there has to be an Engineer somewhere in charge of it all.
 
An interesting thread... Born into an Irish catholic family with all my grandfathers brothers being priests it may seem strange that I'm not in the slightest bit religious, I was never brainwashed with it all at an early age, rather bought up to be pragmatic and to make my own mind up about such things... I didn't get it, and I really still dont ? God ? Who is God, who is the Holy Ghost, where does Jesus fit in and how on Earth was Mary a virgin ? Feel free to help me out here ? We just had Easter, a massive celebration for the death and coming back to life of Jesus, but of course the word Easter is a Pagon word and was a Pagon festival which came from the Anglo saxon word for April "Eostre monath". Surely if Easter wasn't just hijacked as a Christian festival then it would be on the same day every year and not moved dependent on the position of the moon as the Pagons would have done? Surely if Jesus was Jewish then the celebration should be "Pascha" or the Passover anyway ?
I just dont get how people can have such faith in these stories ? God, Jesus, Father Christmas and even the Tooth fairies...Why is it that we soon grow out of believing in some but not others ?
I find life and nature quite staggering and really do have little idea as to why we're here or what we're supposed to be doing, other than muddling along, working, helping, learning, listening and nurturing... But as for there being an all seeing all knowing chap with a beard up there in heaven who created it all for us, then to my mind that has to be nothing more than a story. Maybe it has something to do with "God fearing" and control in days of old, to scare the masses into behaving, working and paying taxes ?
And let us not forget something very important, hundreds of years ago life was much much tougher than it is today, life would have been really hard work, cold, often hungry and little in the way of pain relief or medication. The idea of dying then would have been a treat, a massive relief to most. People would die in agony from a simple tooth infection or even a splinter or nasty cut ? Once these people in their masses began to truely fear God and believe in Heaven then the powers that be were laughing, absolute control?
But people still believe these ancient tales of Gods and Heavens designed and written for power, fear and control ... and of course still responsible for most of the worlds power, fear and control even today ? Strangely enough the worlds biggest real estate owner is the Roman Catholic church and I think McDonalds might even be the second... Make of that what you will ?
I dont fear death because of some silly notion about going to, by now a very overcrowded heaven and meeting God or the Holy ghost or Jesus, never quite sure which one it is, I just dont fear it because to me it's as natural as birth, and I dont remember being fed up for millions of years before I was born, so I'm sure I wont be for millions of years after I die ? Going under general anaesthetic for the first time in December actually made me more comfortable about the whole dying thing because it really was and must be like falling into a deep sleep...
Anyway... There wasn't really an option for me in this poll, because I certainly believe in something, as there's no doubting the power of positive thinking or love or good will...
Oh, and I'm definately not a Hippy, I've just not figured it out yet...

You seem to have fallen into the trap of all the traditions the early church came up with. What you should do is forget all that and read and re-read the bible until you really understand it, and I mean really understand it. You should realize the the bible is a collection of 66 separate books written by more then 40 authors who lived hundreds and thousand of years apart but still the bible flows perfectly, no other books on any other faith does that. Until you really know God's word and have the Holy Spirit in you, you will never understand.
To really understand Christianity you must understand our Jewish roots. Also Christmas and Easter are celebrations in the Christian faith, did those events actually happen those chosen dates, no, but it is a celebration. Is that celebration used correctly these days, no, but a true Christian knows what it means when Jesus died and rose again.
I know you mentioned brainwashing, but again since you do not have a real understanding of God's word, I can see where you come up with that, but I can also say you were brainwashed with the ways of the world.
A lot of people who do not understand God's word will say that religion (BTW I do not like that word "religion", because I am not religious, I am a Christian, and there is a big difference) is for weak people, but I will tell you right now once you give you life to Christ, your life does not get easier, it gets harder, because the now you have a big bulls eye on your back.
My life totally changed when I accepted Christ in my life, I would not have it any other way.
God bless,
 
Given how much just the English language has changed over the centuries, I personally would have little faith in what is written in a book (or books) that were originally written in a completely different language, thousands of years ago. Translation issues aside (because most languages have turns of phrase and words that cannot be directly translated into another language) how do you know the modern day interpretation of this language is still correct when the meaning of many words have changed substantially?

I figure if there is a "God" up there who wants my attention, then he needs to do something a little more convincing to get it. Like anything, I'd rather hear it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak), than relying in second-hand information. At the moment, the whole thing seems a little too much like Chinese whispers for me to believe any of it.

I guess I just can't summon that kind of faith.
 
Hm, just thought I'd like to add that any people from other religions should definitely post to! It'd be good to hear from another perspective too so don't feel this is solely focused on Christianity!

Personally I cannot get my head around the idea of a 'God'. I'm open to the idea, believe me, but I need some evidence. I did my training in psychology and for example, when you see the way different neurotransmitters can affect someones personality it really made it hard for me to accept a religion. Of course that's just one minor example. Then there's the whole evolution thing, space etc. All that stuff just seems right to me. I guess in the same way religion 'feels' right to someone, these explanations 'feel' right to me. Of course I'm not saying science will (or ever) have all the answers :p
 
Well, I am Jewish. Not terribly religious but I have faith in G-d and something bigger than myself. Consider myself more spiritual than anything. Before my second surgery I was very fearful and visited a Rabbi... I feel that sheer will got me through the surgery, plus the love and support I received from others. I don't think my faith has changed but maybe I am more appreciative towards whatever higher power there is.
 
Given how much just the English language has changed over the centuries, I personally would have little faith in what is written in a book (or books) that were originally written in a completely different language, thousands of years ago. Translation issues aside (because most languages have turns of phrase and words that cannot be directly translated into another language) how do you know the modern day interpretation of this language is still correct when the meaning of many words have changed substantially?

I figure if there is a "God" up there who wants my attention, then he needs to do something a little more convincing to get it. Like anything, I'd rather hear it straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak), than relying in second-hand information. At the moment, the whole thing seems a little too much like Chinese whispers for me to believe any of it.

I guess I just can't summon that kind of faith.

What you wrote is a common complaint from people concerning the translation of the bible. First the books of the bible were written in Hebrew and Greek, not English. The Jewish people who kept the translation from the beginning had very strict ways to keep the books, word for word on how is was written. Then when the dead sea scrolls were found in the 40's, guess what, the translation we have now matched what was found. Also when the copper scrolls were found a bit later, they matched also. Now the translation from Hebrew and Greek to English, you can say some of our English does not match the Hebrew and Greek, but the words that may change a little does not change the meaning of the book at all.
You say you want proof, you can not ask for any other proof then to look around, see what our creator has created. Read the bible and see how EVERY prophecy written in the bible has come true, word for word, not like Nostradamus. There are more prophecies to come, which will happen.
I have seen too many miracles in my life not to believe.
Remember the books in the bible were written by men that were inspired by God, they got it straight from God, they did not make it up.
The bible itself is a miracle, you just need faith.
God bless,
 
Hm, just thought I'd like to add that any people from other religions should definitely post to! It'd be good to hear from another perspective too so don't feel this is solely focused on Christianity!

Personally I cannot get my head around the idea of a 'God'. I'm open to the idea, believe me, but I need some evidence. I did my training in psychology and for example, when you see the way different neurotransmitters can affect someones personality it really made it hard for me to accept a religion. Of course that's just one minor example. Then there's the whole evolution thing, space etc. All that stuff just seems right to me. I guess in the same way religion 'feels' right to someone, these explanations 'feel' right to me. Of course I'm not saying science will (or ever) have all the answers :p

A lot of people have a problem getting their head around God, we will never truly understand until we meet Him face to face. You need evidence, again read the bible, you can not ask for more evidence then that. When I say read the bible, I mean really read it, understand it, and see how everything flows together. As for evolution, of course it seems right because it is forced down our throats in school. It is funny how people have total faith in scientist but the one who created us, the one we will all meet one day, they have no faith at all in. The bible even warns us in having faith in men.
You can watch the History channel, and watch movies like The Da Vinci Code and believe that, but you can not believe in the bible?
To me the word of God feels right! I was not a true believer when I was growing up, I was really into Einstein and Physics, I really loved that stuff, but I thank God I turned to the truth, and that is giving my life to Jesus Christ.
God bless,
 
I don't consider myself religious....but a strong believer.......since my "retirement" I have spent many hours studying the Word and have learned much.....although I was a church-goer most of my life....I just now "get it". Thanks for the thread....found it very interesting.
 
You can watch the History channel, and watch movies like The Da Vinci Code and believe that, but you can not believe in the bible?


I wouldn't call those things scientific :p And believing in science is different to believing in man. But again this thread isn't to dispute those things - agree to differ. ;)
 
Interesting thread. I respect everybody's faith but only practice the faith in humanity and try to live as a good human being, compassionate to others. In that sense I practice every religion : )

For the record, I was raised as a Hindu in a very religious household, and I am married to someone who was raised Catholic and is an agnostic. Growing up, always questioned why people would pray to God selfishly to fix everything in their lives. I realize now that this praying is not really to "fix" everything but to have an inner strength to go through with it, since really whatever higher power in the Universe you are praying to doesn't really have the bandwidth to address everybody's individual needs. Yet, for a person, there maybe immense healing power of prayer and faith. For myself, as I deal with this wait for surgery and what lies beyond, I have become more spiritual not religious.

Read an interesting interview with the author who published a book recently.

Excerpt :
Want to build a better brain? Ramp up your spiritual practice, says Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania. Meditation and prayer can improve your physical, intellectual, and emotional well-being and may even slow the brain's aging process.

Newberg, who is also the director of the Center for Spirituality and the Mind, is the author of four books, including the recently released "How God Changes Your Brain," which discusses the results of brain scans that he and his team conducted on more than 100 meditating or praying people. The research shows that the physical and emotional benefits of spiritual observances dramatically accrue over years of practice, but even recent converts exhibit healthier brains -- in one study Newburg's team scanned the brains of people who had never meditated before, then taught them simple meditative methods. After eight weeks of meditating 12 minutes a day, an evaluation showed considerable improvement in memory scores and a measurable decrease in anxiety and anger.

Atheists can feel free to jump right in here as Newburg's research indicates that faith in a divine being isn't required to benefit from meditation. But pessimists may be out of luck -- faith in a positive outcome is necessary for the best results.


Full interview at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...elig042709.DTL&hw=prayer+brain&sn=001&sc=1000
 
Interesting thread. I respect everybody's faith but only practice the faith in humanity and try to live as a good human being, compassionate to others. In that sense I practice every religion : )

For the record, I was raised as a Hindu in a very religious household, and I am married to someone who was raised Catholic and is an agnostic. Growing up, always questioned why people would pray to God selfishly to fix everything in their lives. I realize now that this praying is not really to "fix" everything but to have an inner strength to go through with it, since really whatever higher power in the Universe you are praying to doesn't really have the bandwidth to address everybody's individual needs. Yet, for a person, there maybe immense healing power of prayer and faith. For myself, as I deal with this wait for surgery and what lies beyond, I have become more spiritual not religious.

Read an interesting interview with the author who published a book recently.

Excerpt :
Want to build a better brain? Ramp up your spiritual practice, says Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania. Meditation and prayer can improve your physical, intellectual, and emotional well-being and may even slow the brain's aging process.

Newberg, who is also the director of the Center for Spirituality and the Mind, is the author of four books, including the recently released "How God Changes Your Brain," which discusses the results of brain scans that he and his team conducted on more than 100 meditating or praying people. The research shows that the physical and emotional benefits of spiritual observances dramatically accrue over years of practice, but even recent converts exhibit healthier brains -- in one study Newburg's team scanned the brains of people who had never meditated before, then taught them simple meditative methods. After eight weeks of meditating 12 minutes a day, an evaluation showed considerable improvement in memory scores and a measurable decrease in anxiety and anger.

Atheists can feel free to jump right in here as Newburg's research indicates that faith in a divine being isn't required to benefit from meditation. But pessimists may be out of luck -- faith in a positive outcome is necessary for the best results.


Full interview at:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...elig042709.DTL&hw=prayer+brain&sn=001&sc=1000

Wow, very interesting! This reminds me of a study my supervisor did at University - they looked a people who meditate (whether this was because of a religious reason or because of something like yoga was not taken in to account) and found that it had a clear biological impact on stress and anxiety measured in their cortisol responses. I definitely think that people who are very religious experience similar benefits (can't remember the details but know there's some stuff out there on the net about it!)
 
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