Dangerous drug!

[Marty]

Bloomberg News April 1 reports that physicians " are eager for an alternative to warfarin, a drug first developed as a rat poison". According to the FDA, "warfarin is the second most-common drug, after insulin, implicated in emergency department visits for dangerous reactions".

 

[Duff Man]

I think the author used what some would call "weasel wording", albeit I think we can do better than coumadin.

 

[Philip B]

Dangerous Drug

Dangerous Drug

Yup, without a doubt, it would be nice to have alternatives to both. Like insulin, coumadin requires some management. My surgeon quizzed me about my willingness to do the management thing when we discussed valve choices prior to surgery.

While I personally do not see coumadin management as a big deal, potential issues coumadin use can involve are something that people should consider when making choices. Despite a recent trip to the ER for a gushing, four hour nosebleed, I have no regrets.

-Philip

 

[sheridan07]

I am with you Philip, I too have no regrets. I am 35 and would rather be on coumadin than have another surgery or two. I can manage my life better than worrying about another surgery. I understand people with different views than me but I am glad the path I chose.

 

[catwoman]

Bloomberg News April 1 reports that physicians " are eager for an alternative to warfarin, a drug first developed as a rat poison". According to the FDA, "warfarin is the second most-common drug, after insulin, implicated in emergency department visits for dangerous reactions".

I'd be interested in what precipitated those dangerous reactions: mismeasurement of daily pills; forgetfulness/carelessness on the part of the patient; poorly educated anticoagulation management; blowing off or not getting periodic INR tests; my list could go on forever.

Just curious.

 

[Lisa in Katy]

I'd be interested to see a summary of the statistics that they are referring to. I want to know age of the patient, length of time on Warfarin, other complicating factors, and exactly what the problem was. I think we have to remember that there are many people on Warfarin who are up there in years and probably have more complications than us young chickies.

 

[Karlynn]

Both drugs - when managed correctly - do not send people to the ER.

All the writer of the article needs to do is read our Anticoagulation forum to see that correct management what can be elusive.

I know the instructions and management my elderly MIL had when she was on Coumadin could have sent her to the ER. Thankfully, it did not.

 

[Lisa in Katy]

I went to the ER years ago and they might have documented it as a complication of Warfarin. It was prior to my hysterectomy and I was bleeding profusely. Was it a complication of Warfarin? That's what the doctors decided. Was it dangerous? Not really unless I had ignored the profuse bleeding for a very long time, which was quite impossible. What was the outcome? I had a hysterectomy, which after 8 years with no periods I can truthfully tell you is the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[Ross]

I went to the ER years ago and they might have documented it as a complication of Warfarin. It was prior to my hysterectomy and I was bleeding profusely. Was it a complication of Warfarin? That's what the doctors decided. Was it dangerous? Not really unless I had ignored the profuse bleeding for a very long time, which was quite impossible. What was the outcome? I had a hysterectomy, which after 8 years with no periods I can truthfully tell you is the best thing since sliced bread!

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Even if it wasn't related to Coumadin in any way, just the fact that you take it allows them to label it that way.

My wife has extremely heavy periods and she's not on Coumadin. What was the decision for her? Menhoragia

 

[Karlynn]

If someone is in need of stitches and they take warfarin, most likely if they didn't take warfarin they'd still need stitches.

For me, this report is like saying: The biggest cause of someone having to go to the ER is living. So living is dangerous.

 

[catwoman]

I went to the ER during Christmas week in 2004 (maybe 2005?) with my left index finger bleeding profusely. I had sliced off a corner of the fingertip while chopping onions.

It was bleeding profusely because it was too wide of a slice to be sutured -- at least that's what the ER folks told me. This was a Monday night, I think. It bled until Christmas Day later in the week. All I could do was continually change bandages and keep hoping it would clot over and stay clotted.

Had I not been on warfarin, I would have still had a problem....

 

[neil]

just to say imo i know what you guys are saying and most people on here seem to manage it fine,but this is the reason most people choose not to go on it,thats if there can get away with it,

 

[Rich]

I believe some of the problems come from lack of education from peoples doctors.
I was sitting in my cardios waiting room one day, and a patient came in and told them he just didn't have time to be bothered with blood tests.
So they asked him when was the last time he had his INR checked.
He replied 'eleven months ago'!!!!
Our cardiologist was furious, pretty much told him to cooperate or find another doctor.
Rich

 

[BDMc]

I had an argument with a young nurse about coumadin being "the most dangerous drug you can be on". She was beyond reach. She said the elderly have problems with bleeding on coumadin after falls. My guess is that 98% of medical professionals have a dangerously limited understanding of warfarin, and ACT. I find that much scarier than the drug. As others have said, none of my bleedings have been life threatening. I tried to tell her about my encounter with the garage gate, how even with an INR of 6.0 I stopped bleeding in a few minutes. She couldn't hear it. She said "6.0! You should have been in the hospital getting vitamin K!" Where as my surgeon has said in the past "We want to avoid vitamin K if possible, because it will require admission for a week to re-regulate you."

 

[BDMc]

PS: For the record, I did talk with my PCP about the accident and INR, and he had said not to come in unless I had a headache that was getting worse, or other symptoms. I also ran into a friend that is a neurologist later that night, and of course told him all about it.

 

[njean]

I've heard so many horror stories & non-truths regarding coumadin that's it's almost comical!

I've been on coumadin for 34 years & have undergone a tubal ligation, hysterectomy, open-knee surgery, broken left elbow during one of my archery events plus the 3 OHS!

I've also had nosebleeds that have lasted all night, deep cuts on fingers, toes, etc., & times when my INR was as high as 6.9! But I'm still standing!

Education.....that's the key to understanding coumadin (warfarin) therapy!

 

[Lisa in Katy]

Well, I do think my female issue was related to Warfarin because it kicked in shortly after my OHS. There are lots of women who have similar issues. However, I still don't think Warfarin is dangerous. I also went to the ER once with a bleeding cut on my head that had to be glued together. Was the danger Warfarin? No, the danger was that I'm a klutz in too much of a hurry and pulled the tailgate of my SUV down on my head! Again, who knows if they wrote it off to Warfarin. I'm sure that the fact that I'm on it was recorded in the chart. So again, it depends on how the "study" was done.

Brian, I've talked to other health care professionals with the same warped thinking. The last time I rather rudely told the woman, "You've studied it out of a book. I've lived with it every day for 10 years. Which one of us do you think knows what they are talking about? I know what I think." I probably pissed her off, but at least she shut up.

Neil, I'm not going to get in that battle! It's a personal choice. Higher risk from multiple surgeries vs. being educated and consistent with a tiny pill. I'll take some education any day.

 

[Ross]

I had an argument with a young nurse about coumadin being "the most dangerous drug you can be on". She was beyond reach. She said the elderly have problems with bleeding on coumadin after falls. My guess is that 98% of medical professionals have a dangerously limited understanding of warfarin, and ACT. I find that much scarier than the drug. As others have said, none of my bleedings have been life threatening. I tried to tell her about my encounter with the garage gate, how even with an INR of 6.0 I stopped bleeding in a few minutes. She couldn't hear it. She said "6.0! You should have been in the hospital getting vitamin K!" Where as my surgeon has said in the past "We want to avoid vitamin K if possible, because it will require admission for a week to re-regulate you."

Oh I know Brian. The fiasco I had after my teeth were removed about drove me nuts. I told my son and wife to call my Cardiologist before those people killed me or at least find a doctor that understood anticoagulation. I nearly frigging cried when Dr. Norch came in and point blank said that it wasn't the Coumadin, but rather the lovenox causing the bleeding, but also, the stitching job wasn't good enough to begin with. When I was restitched and sent home and told NO LOVENOX, just restart my Coumadin and test in 4 days. She gave me plasma just to prove to the silly others that it was not the Coumadin and my INR tested at 1.1, yet they insisted it was the Coumadin.

 

[neil]

lisa its not a battle as you put it,its a personnel choice,yes a second ohs isnt great but thats the choice we make over taking this med,simple as,we all have to make that choice,and am sure we would drather we didnt,as i stated most of you guys on here are doin great using it and long may it continue,but some of us choose not to ,

 

[Lisa in Katy]

You haven't been around long if you don't think it turns into a battle around here. As I said, it's a personal choice.