Running Races with Ascending Aortic Aneurism

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If I had followed those guidelines I wouldn't have been competitive at running races. The theory that a 55 year old should have a maximum heart rate of 165 isn't true for someone who is very fit. Mine is 190. My resting heart rate is in the 30's. My BP is below 100 over 60. It took a lot of very intense training to get there! But I know these numbers will definitely deteriorate now that I can't train intensely.

Where does the 107-123 bpm come from? That seems awfully low. My cardiologist wouldn't give me a recommendation.
 
The easy pace is figured from 65-75% of max. Believe me besides the 20% hard running a week the easy pace of 107-123 should put you at 8:00-8:30 minutes per mile training pace which is good enough for a 3:15:00-3:30:00 marathon time. Your fast pace (aerobic threshold) at your age should be about 6:00-7:00 minutes per mile pace. With running you can kill yourself training and go backwards. I did a pr on a marathon by taking the whole week before off. :)

If you want to build up more just add more weekly mileage. You should be at a min. of 60 miles a week to run marathons. Up it to say 70-100 miles (still doing 80% at easy pace) and you won't believe the gain in speed and fitness.
 
I used to do lots of long slow runs when I was doing 50 mile and 100 km races. It was good enough for a 3:05 marathon in my late 40's. In recent years, arthritis has meant I can't do much more than 40 km per week. I was supplementing that with runs up mountains (tram down). But basically everything at a hard pace. It worked well. I had over 20 good races in the last two years including last week's half marathon, where I was second of 147 in my age group. I realize those days are now over. I guess I was fortunate not to dissect in training or racing, since my ascending aorta was 4.8 cm during the last year and a half. (I didn't know this until recently since my GP neglected to mention it!).
 
Hi

Ultrarunner;n860017 said:
If I had followed those guidelines I wouldn't have been competitive at running races.
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True, but now you have to nurse an aneurysm. Seems prudent to dial back a bit, at least till you're on the mend.
 
Nothing can come from taking it easy til surgery that you can't build back up to afterwards. Push yourself to hard and you might literally not make it to your surgery date. I was told to take it easy in the month prior to surgery. When I questioned that advice, I was told if I didn't I could drop dead!
 
almost_hectic;n860026 said:
Nothing can come from taking it easy til surgery that you can't build back up to afterwards. Push yourself to hard and you might literally not make it to your surgery date. I was told to take it easy in the month prior to surgery. When I questioned that advice, I was told if I didn't I could drop dead!
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The problem is nobody will define what "take it easy" means. My cardiologist said to keep running. However he didn't provide any guidelines, like keep it under x% of maximum heart rate. If I knew what blood pressure was dangerous that would help a lot.
 
Hi

Ultrarunner;n860027 said:
The problem is nobody will define what "take it easy" means. My cardiologist said to keep running. However he didn't provide any guidelines, like keep it under x% of maximum heart rate. If I knew what blood pressure was dangerous that would help a lot.
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Firstly this is not engineering and the materials science of engineering materials is far more accurate, thus an engineer can give you a more accurate number. If the Dr said "under 140 will be fine" and you died he would be worried your estate will sue him.

Accordingly numbers are hard to get from them.

Can you measure your blood pressure when running? Have you?

This is why I gave the guidelines above and said keep it under that. It should be safe. But its not killed the silent killer for no reason. It dissects when it dissects and when it does its too late generally speaking.

So I say again, jog carefully, keep your HR below 140 and don't push it. I am quite certain you know what that means for you.

I wonder if you are being doggedly obstinate in refusing to listen to advice. "Taking it easy" is relative. Jogging 100 meters may be totally beyond some people yet you may say its nothing. So think about that for a moment. It seems if you found yourself agreeing with that are totally clear that is not pushing yourself. Thus that is taking it easy. If you walked for the same time you jogged would that not be "taking it easy"?

Surely you must have developed some sence by now of when you are "pushing it" and when you are "taking it easy" when you are training? Have you tried running and wearing your HR monitor? Has 140 felt to be pushing it? If not then it probably isn't relative to you.


Best Wishes
 
Well at 180 BPM, you are creating immense pressure on your blood vessels (one of which is damaged in your case).
 
pellicle;n860028 said:
Can you measure your blood pressure when running? Have you?

So I say again, jog carefully, keep your HR below 140 and don't push it. I am quite certain you know what that means for you.

I wonder if you are being doggedly obstinate in refusing to listen to advice. "Taking it easy" is relative. Jogging 100 meters may be totally beyond some people yet you may say its nothing. So think about that for a moment. It seems if you found yourself agreeing with that are totally clear that is not pushing yourself. Thus that is taking it easy. If you walked for the same time you jogged would that not be "taking it easy"?
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Actually I was hoping to measure my BP while running. There are some devices that connect to a phone that I'm looking at. My stress test showed my systolic BP at 160 when my HR was 160. I asked my cardiologist if those numbers were ok as limits but he didn't know.

I'm not being obstinate about following advice. It's only since I joined this forum and started searching the internet that I've been getting any. My cardiologist just said to keep running but not to do intervals, weight lift, or push ups. I have been complying with that. I asked him if stress was an issue but he didn't know about that either.

I could live with a limit of 140. That would feel very easy.
 
Hi

Ultrarunner;n860032 said:
Actually I was hoping to measure my BP while running.
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I'm reckoning that one of those basic battery powered writs bands will probably do the trick ... doesn't need to sync with your phone. I've not actually seen one that can do BP while on the run ... unlike heart rate by definition it must be a point sample anyway.

...I asked my cardiologist if those numbers were ok as limits but he didn't know.
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yeah, I'd say that's a common problem. For a starter I doubt that most of their clients are even fit, let alone athletic. So I think it puts them out of their comfort zone.

I'm not being obstinate about following advice.
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sorry, I misunderstood when you wrote ...
The problem is nobody will define what "take it easy" means.
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which is why I tried to clarify it ....

.... My cardiologist just said to keep running but not to do intervals, weight lift, or push ups. I have been complying with that. I asked him if stress was an issue but he didn't know about that either.

I could live with a limit of 140. That would feel very easy.
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mostly its about that they don't know, we often expect them to know things which they seem to not. They are trained in a particular area, but like all things complex you go outside that box and its all unknown.

I've had this most of my life, for instance dealing with surgeons who have only had 2 or 3 patients under 15years old. So I'm used to expecting that "its up to me" to make my own choices.

I think its down to risk avoidance and knowing your body and "common sense" ... from a materials science perspective they can't know what your artery wall will take without splitting (neither can you) , so they are just tending towards being cautious with keeping you alive in mind.

Myself I'd go with the 140 ... in fact I did when I was diagnosed with my aneurysm. I often thought that I could easily have died the year before out on the ski tracks where I pushed it to 170 up hills. (cross country skiing)
 
I appreciate your experience and experience. I think my problem is that I like to quantify everything. It's a personality thing. I used to work in medical research and also in a hospital chemistry lab. But I'm gradually coming to accept the vagueness of the situation. I'll just have to accept that the unknowns require a greater margin of safety.
 
Hi
Ultrarunner;n860034 said:
...I think my problem is that I like to quantify everything. It's a personality thing. I used to work in medical research and also in a hospital chemistry lab. But I'm gradually coming to accept the vagueness of the situation. I'll just have to accept that the unknowns require a greater margin of safety.
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I can understand that. I did a Biochem degree back in the 80's and after working in electronics (as a technician) have been working in IT for a few decades now. You'd know that while we quantify everything something as simple as an INR reading can vary based on reagents, so I guess that without being able to use a tricorder to assay your current state of aorta tissue (and a vivisection being undesirable) there is only so much certainty we can have.

anway ... best wishes with it all ... I'd keep doing some exersize because you want to maintain your fitness levels as best you can. I'm going to try the wrist BP meter out on my hill at home tonight and see what it does.

I'll report back
 
Ultrarunner;n860022 said:
I used to do lots of long slow runs when I was doing 50 mile and 100 km races. It was good enough for a 3:05 marathon in my late 40's. In recent years, arthritis has meant I can't do much more than 40 km per week. I was supplementing that with runs up mountains (tram down). But basically everything at a hard pace. It worked well. I had over 20 good races in the last two years including last week's half marathon, where I was second of 147 in my age group. I realize those days are now over. I guess I was fortunate not to dissect in training or racing, since my ascending aorta was 4.8 cm during the last year and a half. (I didn't know this until recently since my GP neglected to mention it!).
Click to expand...

I knew about my bicuspid valve for over 20 years before surgery and the aneurism for probably 5 years. Up until surgery my main event was long distance hill running (usually up to 30 miles). Each time I saw the cardiologist I told them exactly what I was doing and up until 6 months before surgery I was told to carry on as normal. When the anuerism and other parameters they were measuring were approaching surgery level, I was told to take it easy. I had to trust what the cardioligist told me as it was difficult to go off purely my own instinct as if I felt slow I would train harder which is not a good thing in this situation.
 
RunMartin;n860038 said:
I knew about my bicuspid valve for over 20 years before surgery and the aneurism for probably 5 years. Up until surgery my main event was long distance hill running (usually up to 30 miles). Each time I saw the cardiologist I told them exactly what I was doing and up until 6 months before surgery I was told to carry on as normal. When the anuerism and other parameters they were measuring were approaching surgery level, I was told to take it easy. I had to trust what the cardioligist told me as it was difficult to go off purely my own instinct as if I felt slow I would train harder which is not a good thing in this situation.
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Interesting. If you had the root replaced but not the ascending aorta, maybe they were less concerned about your activity?
 
Resting 97/57 HR 48
Cycling fast with high pedal tension 137/79 HR 156

Even though the BP is not that high, it feels pretty pressurized with the pedal resistance. The body feels the fatigue more than the lungs do.

As a precaution, last December when I was undergoing tests that would identify the bicuspid valve, I dropped all heavy weight training until I figured out what was going on.

It was a long walk in some remote logging trails after my car battery died that precipitated the end of the damaged valve. I tried to keep a smiling face when I was finally able to hitch a ride. But I knew something was horribly awry. No question if I had hit a couple more heavy squats in the gym, the damaged valve would have given out entirely.
 
RunMartin;n860052 said:
Not sure what you mean. My surgery involved an AVR with Dacron graft up to the fist major junction.
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Sorry, I thought you meant the root only was replaced and not the ascending aorta. What was the diameter of your ascending aorta when they told you to take it easy?
 
MethodAir;n860054 said:
Resting 97/57 HR 48
Cycling fast with high pedal tension 137/79 HR 156
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I just had someone in the office this afternoon recommend cycling. He said heart rate would be about 20 bpm lower on a bike compared with running. We have a stationary bike in our gym. Maybe I'll substitute some of that for running.
 
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