Katrina

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I had an idea during a staff meeting yesterday that I found out will work in theory. Some might want to look into this.

I want to do something significant financially but can't simply write a check. I though about the money I have taken out for my 401K each paycheck. I realized I would not miss a month's worth of these deductions in the long run and, if the money was coming out of my check anyway, I would not be negatively affected financially by donating the money. I talked to others in my company and we all agreed it would make sense.

I talked to my 401K company rep and asked him to check into how this could be done without affecting any 401K agreements. Our 401K is set up so we can make monthly changes to our 401K so that part is not an issue (this might be an issue for a company who might only allow quarterly changes).

Many of us are going to take the money we normally contribute to our 401K, still do payroll deductions and send the money to the relief effort. As administrator, I have to create a form for the employee to complete, approving the change and keep everything on file for audit purposes. A small price of time to pay for the over $5000 our company is gathering through this measure.

Something big to keep in mind if you look into this way of donating. Unlike 401K contributions, these deductions would be "after tax money" meaning you would pay more taxes than usual. Be sure and consider that when deciding.

I can send anyone more specifics if your company would be willing to participate like ours is doing.
 
we saw convoys traveling from east today on I-10 to put down the anarchy.

Posts in this thread are from all over and you are all so angry. I have noticed right here in the panhandle tempers are flaring far more than what I read here. We must go to WalMart tomorrow at 7 (early) to pick up our groceries, but have heard many shelves are empty! We have only WalMart and one chain grocer to buy our groceries in our small town. We plan to try to buy a month's supplies so we don't have to go to town very often and thereby save gasoline. I have a car and daughter has a car. If we can keep them both filled, then if she runs out she can use mine to go to work 20 miles away. We are trying to think ahead. I guess that's what we are going to have to do until things are more in control.

We have to put down our anger, I guess, accept and get used to the way things are and then try to get by the best way we can. It's a new way of life for us around here.

And the season's not over yet. The gulf is too hot and that brings 'em on.
 
Geebee,
Your idea is really great! It is something which could be done by most companies. It may even be tax neutral if the fund are deductable- check with a tax accountant. I wonder how you could get this idea out on a nationwide basis? This is the kind of great thinking we need at a time like
this.

Hensylee,
"Posts in this thread are from all over and you are all so angry."
I guess it is normal, but when you see pictures of those suffering people,
the young children and babies, you can't help but be touched by it.
The sadness and dispair of those pictures quickly changes to anger when
you see the site of the N.O. school district parking area flooded with what must be 200 hundred or more buses just sitting there with water halfway
up to their roofs. Why didn't the locals help themselves out by using those
buses to move people out on Saturday when anyone with a TV set knew a big
one was headed their way. How about all the city trucks that could of carried people out of that city? Then the mayor of that city gets on the radio
and starts blaming everyone but himself and the media hasn't asked him question one about his resposibilities to his citizens. The whole mess is so bizzarre! If ever a man was guilty of dereliction of duty, it is the Mayor of New Orleans- he should be held criminally responsible! It is becoming apparent
that his administration had no plan to deal with getting people out of the city
who could least fend for themselves. If that one problem had been dealt with,
we wouldn't be in this mess today and I also fault the news media for not making that point crystal clear! A hole in a dike, a flooded city, etc., etc.,
can all be dealt with, but 100,000 thousand of the poorest people just left by their own mayor with out food or water for five days is horrible. Thank God that the federal engine of relief, finally got cranked up and running to help
these poor souls who were abandoned by their local government.

I guess there are somethings worth getting angry about and this is one of them. :mad: Besides, it makes our arguments about valves look kind of trite. :D
 
RCB - I meant that EVERYbody is angry. We are, too. Talked with daughter in Atlanta, nephew in Tallahassee - they are angry, too. I meant that anger is everywhere and growing. I don't know how else we can feel when there is such tragedy, pain and suffering.

Nephew in Hattiesburg, Ms cannot teach this year. His college is destroyed. His home is ok, more or less, so his family has a place to live, but his job isn't there anymore.

The blames and responsibilities are coming one of these days. It always does.
 
We just need to figure out how to channel the angry energy into positive action. I would hate for people to waste the time blaming anyone for this act of nature. This is the type of tragedy that God uses to test us and grade us on our reactions, humanity and willingness to carry on. I realize it is easy for me to sit in my cushy recliner and say carry on but I cannot change the fact that I was not in the strike zone. All I can do is figure out a way to make a difference.

The scope of this disaster is so huge that it seems it has been going on forever. In fact, it has only been a few days. I see a lot of people relocated, a lot of military and volunteers handing out food, water and finding shelter for the affected. The actions may not have been perfect but I think there has been plenty of action. The aid is increasing in leaps and bounds, hindered only by some folks who have actually been afraid to travel into the area for fear of being attacked. I think that concern is being addressed and order is starting to be restored.

Will things be back to normal soon - of course not. It will take a long time to rebuild cities and lives. We can always try to plan ahead but, until we are faced with facts, we do not always know how those plans will be played out. We are all only human after all and we make mistakes.

Hopefully all this will stay in the scope of human helping human and not into a political finger pointing. But, then, I have always been a "cock-eyed optimist".

Please, God, watch over us in our time of great need.
 
I think everyone has to realize that getting a MASSIVE undertaking together takes time, after the fact. This is the worst disaster in our country's history, I believe. Mobilization of huge amounts of people, vehicles, supplies takes time. I don't know how it could be expected to happen overnight.

I also think that the logistics of the flooding is a huge hinderance to getting things to where they need to be gotten. And there are small numbers of people dotted all over the place that have to be rescued, they are not just in one location. Power cannot come back on unless the water is gone. Sewage systems cannot work when they are flooded. Fires are going to start spontaneously because of breached propane tanks, fuel storage tanks, fuel and gas lines. Saying that people have deliberately started them, well, I just don't buy it. Vehicles cannot drive through high flooding. Helicopters and boats are probably the only things that can adequately work in the flooded areas, and they have to be deployed from other locations. People probably shouldn't even be walking in the flooded areas. Manhole covers are probably displaced, drain covers are probably displaced. Yes, there are buses standing in water, but how do they get started, when their engines are under water? They would need to be towed out, and dried out. And the water is all around.

The most important thing wasn't done, and that was to get everyone out BEFORE the storm hit, and WAY before it hit. I blame the mayor and Governor for that. They KNEW the storm was on the way.

And THAT, in my opinion was the biggest mistake. The storm wasn't taken seriously. There were no contingency plans for evacuating people who don't own transportation. Sure I heard the Mayor's anger about things not happening fast enough, he ought to be looking in the mirror.

And if the levees weren't built to withstand a large hurricane when New Orleans sits below sea level, that really is something I don't understand at all. Very poor planning, hoping that nothing would happen. That is assuming in it's worst aspect.

We all have to look around at our own communities and see if WE are protected the way we should be by our politicos. Disasters can happen everywhere. We may or may not be safe where we live. And maybe the people in charge haven't thought of the worst case scenario. Or maybe they don't care---

On a very tiny scale, around here, we had a large dam built. It was state of the art, so everyone thought. It was built to replace the old dam because the design was better. The old dam was in place for many, many years. Well, it wasn't in place for more than a couple of years, and it failed, sending huge amounts of water through a community, causing damage and destroying homes. How could a brand new dam fail?? Makes one wonder. Was it poor planning, poor design, poor execution as far as construction or a whole lot of people trying to save money by not doing things right--don't know?

I feel so terribly sorry for those in the Gulf situation. It's tragic, it's horrible and it isn't over. I only hope that now that supplies have starting to arrive, things will settle down, along with tempers. But their lives will be forever changed. And it's not just New Orleans, either, there are many other communities hard hit as well.
 
Nancy said:
And if the levees weren't built to withstand a large hurricane when New Orleans sits below sea level, that really is something I don't understand at all. Very poor planning, hoping that nothing would happen. That is assuming in it's worst aspect.
Click to expand...

My bro-in-law said he saw a report on a news channel where they interviewed someone who was in charge of the levy system in Norway. He said they build levy systemes to withstand 10,000 year disasters and the NO system was build for 100 year disaster. I believe in Illinois our levy system is built for 500 years and we had a big flood about 10 years ago that breached that badly.

RCB - you make an excellent point about the school buses. I'm going to keep that one in mind.

What people don't realize is that disasters are expected to be managed from the local level up. First the local gov't does what it can do, then the state, then the national. There is tons of red, beaurocratic tape that must be waded through to get things moving. In a case like this, where it is obvious that it's so huge that the national gov't must take the lead, the chain-of-command gets done quickly, but still must be done, otherwise you get on the slippery slope of states' rights. I have a friend who worked for FEMA and he said it is quite frustrating.

I've really stopped watching the reporting on TV because I'm already tired of hearing the blame game. There will be plenty of blame to go around because hind sight is 20/20.
 
Karlynn-

Exactly right regarding the chain of command in a disaster or anywhere else in government. That is why we all have to pay attention to what is going on in our own communities and the kinds of people we elect. It's local first then it goes up from there, not the other way around.

That dam failure that I spoke of here which destroyed homes and properties over a large area was just denied Federal help. The locals are stunned.
 
While driving to my sister's lake house for the holiday weekend, I noticed emergency vehicle lights leading a procession of white buses. This was on I-30, just east of downtown Dallas Texas -- not far from Reunion Arena, where many of the evacuees from New Orleans are being housed. There were about 12-15 buses in the procession, then perhaps another 5 or so in another procession. My guess is these were evacuees being brought to the Dallas area.

On yesterday's local newscast out of Dallas-Fort Worth, there was footage of firefighters from the Frisco TX department loading up to go to New Orleans. I was sooooooooooooo proud. My nephew-in-law, Jake Owen, is a captain with the department. I called my sister to ask if she knew anything about Jake possibly going to Nawlins, was told no. He & my niece are moving Monday into an apartment; they're building a new home and their current home sold quicker than expected so they're moving into an apartment temporarily.

One friend in Baton Rouge is working with the emergency animal shelter down there, coordinating the "cat ward," as she calls it. She does rescue work with Greyhounds and with National Abyssinian Rescue, so she's well-versed in dealing with animals that need rehoming. She said the workers are busy going to Walmart buying foil pans (make-do litter boxes), food, litter, water, etc. I think they%'re taking some of these animals from evacuees and LSU vet school or Louisiana Veterinary Medical Association is providing services as needed. Cynthia said some of the cats are reacting to the heat, but the dogs are dealing much better with the heat.
 
We're official foster pet applicants. Our Humane shelter has offered to try and find temporary households for pets that would otherwise be euthanized. The shelter is paying for vaccinations and vet costs for pets that arrive here; we have to agree to relinquish the animals when, and if, the displaced owners can be reunited with them.

We haven't had a dog since our poodle died four years ago, but I guess we're ready to welcome an animal into our family. :) :) :)
 
Re: closed military bases

Re: closed military bases

Heard today that the gov of Minnesota has offered to take 5,000 evacuees and put them up at a closed military base. Maybe he's been reading our site???
 
THe reporters were doing more for these people than the police! I was watching Dateline, and one of the reporters saw a woman and talked to her...it turned out that she was in line to get on a bus, so she handed her two year old up so she could get on with their dog and her older child, and she got pushed down and by the time she was able to get up...the bus had left, with her two year old in it. The reporter helped her by flagging down a cop who right away took her in his squad car to the front of the line to get on the next bus. THere are stories like that everywhere. So sad...I'm glad that the evacuation is finally almost done. N.O. is now a ghost town. Too bad so many people had to die because the relief/rescue effort was so unorganized. Three guys in my husband's command are there now...driving the dead bodies to the temporary morgues.
 
joy said:
N.O. is now a ghost town. Too bad so many people had to die because the relief/rescue effort was so unorganized.
Click to expand...

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If pre-storm evacuation plans had been adequate, then post-storm relief and rescue would have been more manageable. This is certainly not to say that relief/rescue doesn't need to be evaluated. But I'm hearing so much about how we've failed these people after the storm - what about failing prior to the storm hitting? Did these cities, counties and states not have evacuation plans in place for those who were not able to leave the area by their own means? Or if they had them, why weren't they used to the fullest? There were so many left in the area. Why?

It's common sense to understand that the fewer people you have in an area hit by disaster - the fewer people you have to rescue. I think the nation is stunned by the number of people that remained in the area. At some point down the road, I'd really like to see some stats on why there were so many people. What percentage remained because they had no way to leave and what percentage remained because bad things only happen to other people?

I'm sure that the police are working to the point of exhaustion, so to say that reporters are doing more than they, would not be a correct assumption.
 
The thing that I find most frustrating right now are the tirades of NO's mayor. He is carrying on about all the people that were left and playing the poverty and race cards (along with other national vocal people). This was supposed to be his city and he was supposed to be in touch with the demographics of his city. Where was HIS evacuation plan to take care of HIS citizens. If the federal government had come in to tell him how to evacuate his city before the storm he would have screamed about interference. Since he now talks about the 100,000 people in his city with no way out, why did he not have something in place to handle this inevitable storm. He had to have known about these people in advance.

I am so sick and tired of the federal government getting the blame for everything that goes wrong in this country. We scream about them being in our face when we don't like what they do and then we scream when they are not in our face for the same reasons.

This was a disaster that was waiting to happen and the local government sat back and made no plans. Now they want to point fingers at everyone else and the press is once again fueling the fires. Our nation's energy needs to be focused on helping these people who were virtually abandoned by their local government.

My heart is so sad for all that is going on.
 
*sighs*

The pictures coming from New Orleans and the other areas of the Gulf Coast that were hit by Katrina are just so unbelievable.....

On another website of which I'm a member, someone posted a pic they found of a bunch of school buses that were flooded. The poster added a bit of a commentary by adding that the buses were flooded needlessly, costing money to the school district when _someone_ could easily have mobilized them to help evacuate people BEFORE Katrina.... Can't say I disagree....


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My school district has enrolled more than 200 students from Louisiana in the past few days. This is mostly from families who evacuated prior to landfall, as those brought from the SuperDome haven't had time to go to school yet, and will probably go to schools in HISD. I received my first student yesterday, and expect to receive more in the next several days.

I feel that the relief effort is going as well as can be expected considering the magnitude of the damage and the reactions of some of the "refugees". Being shot at and mobbed kind of slows the effort. Although I am certain that many of those who endured the storm were not able to leave, there are also several in the group who chose not to leave. I saw an interview with two tourists - one from Canada and another from Michigan - who obviously had the means to leave prior to the storm. Even if there were no flights, surely these tourists could have rented cars and driven out of town.

Having grown up on the Texas Gulf Coast, I can remember evacuating for only one hurricane, and that was Hurricane Allen (1980), which was aimed right at us, and had reached Category 5 three times before turning and hitting an unpopulated area of Texas. We were stuck on the highway all night, and made it about 20 miles. Many of those who did manage to evacuate were stuck in Austin, which experienced flooding caused by tornadoes. My dad decided that we would never again attempt to evacuate. For Hurricane Alicia (1983), a Category 3, we stayed put, watched the news until we lost our power, listened to the radio news until the tower blew over, and then woke in the morning to find that it had also turned at the last minute and caused massive damage to Houston, also from tornadoes. Hurricane Gilbert was also a huge storm that did not do as expected and again spared us. So....all this to say that my family probably would have perished in this hurricane because we wouldn't have taken it seriously. You get to where you expect the best and plan for something, but not really the worst, which is what this storm was.
 
I wasn't saying it was the policemen's fault, they were working to the point of exhaustion, but everybody knew this storm was coming, I knew it before it even left south florida, that's what they were talking about on the news. 5 days before it hit, they were talking about it, that's why I was saying where was the organization? They knew that many people didn't have a way out...for those people, there should have been busses so they could have had a chance. That's all I was trying to say.
 
Posted by Lisa in Katy: Having grown up on the Texas Gulf Coast, I can remember evacuating for only one hurricane, and that was Hurricane Allen (1980), which was aimed right at us, and had reached Category 5 three times before turning and hitting an unpopulated area of Texas. We were stuck on the highway all night, and made it about 20 miles. Many of those who did manage to evacuate were stuck in Austin, which experienced flooding caused by tornadoes. My dad decided that we would never again attempt to evacuate. For Hurricane Alicia (1983), a Category 3, we stayed put, watched the news until we lost our power, listened to the radio news until the tower blew over, and then woke in the morning to find that it had also turned at the last minute and caused massive damage to Houston, also from tornadoes. Hurricane Gilbert was also a huge storm that did not do as expected and again spared us. So....all this to say that my family probably would have perished in this hurricane because we wouldn't have taken it seriously. You get to where you expect the best and plan for something, but not really the worst, which is what this storm was.

This is the Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Lousiana, Texas story a million times over. The subject can be discussed til Jesus comes, but the facts are that there is no law that forces any citizen to evacuate, so each family makes its own decision. If you get on the highway, assuming you have a vehicle, can get gas, which is suddenly scarce, there are thousands of cars already there and many never get much farther than that 20 miles Lisa talked about. It is a calculated decision and if we stay home, which most do, we hunker down with our water jugs, flashlights, oil lamps, canned foods, bathtubs full of water, follow as many instructions we can that our leaders give us and then just pray that we are going to be ok. Sometimes you get lucky, wake up the next morning to find the storm went some other way overnight. We plan to leave if it's more than a 2 category - only things is, if you go north, the storm might follow you, if you go east, it might follow you, if you go west, it might follow you. Can't go south - gulf is out there. We faced this decision last year and finally decided to just stay home. We have a plan, but millions might have the same plan we do and we'll all bump into each other and nobody goes anyplace.
 
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