Industrial Wind Farm Experience
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No, but the topic is certainly kicking up a lot of controversy in Wisconsin. Are you having an issue?
JimL
Well-known member
We have a few north of us in the Thumb. We were up to see them in January, it was very foggy that day, so we saw only the bottoms of the blades briefly, before they disappeared into the fog again, rather spooky.
Hi Cris,
Yes, Industrial Wind Turbine Farms are coming to the neighbourhood and will kill bats and other birds, reduce property values and impact the view of the night sky.
If you have seen the Russell Crowe movie "The Insider" change the subject from tobacco to wind you'll have an idea of what's happening. It's the choice of the landowner to decide if he wants them or not. Heaven help the folk living next door. These turbines are 500 ft. high--don't know what it is in meters.
Yes, Industrial Wind Turbine Farms are coming to the neighbourhood and will kill bats and other birds, reduce property values and impact the view of the night sky.
If you have seen the Russell Crowe movie "The Insider" change the subject from tobacco to wind you'll have an idea of what's happening. It's the choice of the landowner to decide if he wants them or not. Heaven help the folk living next door. These turbines are 500 ft. high--don't know what it is in meters.
I would like to be a land owner and have wind turbines all over my property like I've seen in Texas. I bet they are almost as good as oil wells! 
We lived in the oil fields for over 40 years. New comers would complain about the smell of crude oil and sour gas. I told them I loved that smell, it smell like MONEY to me!
Myself, I worked in those terrible petrochemical plants. You know the kind that people living 5 miles from the plants get sick and blame the plants. But the employees that work there for as long as 40 years don't get sick.
When I was a kid we had a large wooden wind mill that supplied our water. I'll never forget going to sleep in the summer time with the window open by my bed. While listening to the sound of that old windmill turning in the breeze. Each of those old wooden windmills made a different sound. I wish I could hear that sound tonight, sure I'd go to sleep much sooner.
We lived in the oil fields for over 40 years. New comers would complain about the smell of crude oil and sour gas. I told them I loved that smell, it smell like MONEY to me!
Myself, I worked in those terrible petrochemical plants. You know the kind that people living 5 miles from the plants get sick and blame the plants. But the employees that work there for as long as 40 years don't get sick.
When I was a kid we had a large wooden wind mill that supplied our water. I'll never forget going to sleep in the summer time with the window open by my bed. While listening to the sound of that old windmill turning in the breeze. Each of those old wooden windmills made a different sound. I wish I could hear that sound tonight, sure I'd go to sleep much sooner.
Lance, I understand your dilemma.
We have 2 neighbours with wind turbines for their personal farm use...no problem at all. But you are talking about HUGE industrial turbines and that is a whole different discussion. These installations should be as far away from housing as possible, and they need to consider flight/migration paths for birds, etc.
Our county is in the process of debating a huge solar farm installation. Not too bad..... but it would take hundreds of acres of good farm land.
We have 2 neighbours with wind turbines for their personal farm use...no problem at all. But you are talking about HUGE industrial turbines and that is a whole different discussion. These installations should be as far away from housing as possible, and they need to consider flight/migration paths for birds, etc.
Our county is in the process of debating a huge solar farm installation. Not too bad..... but it would take hundreds of acres of good farm land.
Ever seen the windmills surrounding the interstate from the Ontario airport to Palm Springs, Calif.? Probably thousands of 'em.
Hi Bina,
North-east of where we live they have turbines on both sides of the road. So I drove up there, turned off the ignition and this is what I heard from the road. The turbine is plainly audible with a whooshing sound caused when the arms blow past the tower. My driveway is about 200ft long and the second turbine was father away than that--clearly audible with a whine as well as the swoosh from the blades. The power company says this is acceptable. The farmer can cultivate around the turbines and they can be no closer to his buildings than 500 metres--don't know metric. They might be the sight and sound of money--money for the power company. Farmers will be paid according to how much power is generated. Birds/bats come under the MNR so power company not responsible. Blinking red lights come under the jurisdiction of the FAA--the power company not responsible. Hydro personnel at the meeting would not divulge costs incurred erecting one turbine--I said a million and he didn't correct me.
Industrial turbines in no way resemble old-time windmills used for pumping water. I told him to erect them in Toronto where the power is going. His response--not allowed. So I told him to go away, go fast, go far, take your bird/bat killing, property value reducing blight on the landscape turbines with him and stay there. Standing on the road between those turbines caused a weird feeling that disturbed me more than the sound. Strange.
The most sinister of all though is the contracts being signed to allow these towers on the farm. If farmers think they will be able to change their minds when the leases come for renewal in five years--well I hope they have good lawyers too. Otherwise .............
North-east of where we live they have turbines on both sides of the road. So I drove up there, turned off the ignition and this is what I heard from the road. The turbine is plainly audible with a whooshing sound caused when the arms blow past the tower. My driveway is about 200ft long and the second turbine was father away than that--clearly audible with a whine as well as the swoosh from the blades. The power company says this is acceptable. The farmer can cultivate around the turbines and they can be no closer to his buildings than 500 metres--don't know metric. They might be the sight and sound of money--money for the power company. Farmers will be paid according to how much power is generated. Birds/bats come under the MNR so power company not responsible. Blinking red lights come under the jurisdiction of the FAA--the power company not responsible. Hydro personnel at the meeting would not divulge costs incurred erecting one turbine--I said a million and he didn't correct me.
Industrial turbines in no way resemble old-time windmills used for pumping water. I told him to erect them in Toronto where the power is going. His response--not allowed. So I told him to go away, go fast, go far, take your bird/bat killing, property value reducing blight on the landscape turbines with him and stay there. Standing on the road between those turbines caused a weird feeling that disturbed me more than the sound. Strange.
The most sinister of all though is the contracts being signed to allow these towers on the farm. If farmers think they will be able to change their minds when the leases come for renewal in five years--well I hope they have good lawyers too. Otherwise .............
We have a similar issue brewing near us in Maine. Even though the mountains are described as "Marginal" for wind power, the government has made it such that there's a profit in it, and the heck with the lost beauty, the banging noises that can be heard over a mile away at the botttom of every turn of the blades, the scars all over the mountains (they denude a huge area for each one, have wide roadways entering, and cyclone fences all around them), and the ceaselessly blinking rows of red lights in an area that has always had nearly pure night darkness, where the Milky Way is fully visible.. The locals gain nothing from them, no reduction in electric costs, not even temporary jobs. But despite protests and meetings, and some really ugly ones in place further north to look at, they're being railroaded through. They already impinge on some views of Mt. Katahdin and Baxter State Park. There are always a few politicians willing to throw away what God gave us as long as there's enough baksheesh for their own troughs.
A number of owners from the first groups that signed the contracts referred to above were horrified at what was done to their property and how they found they were locked off of it, sometimes with armed guards patrolling. The land is ravaged and left unplanted (you couldn't even do that with a strip mine anymore), and the access roads go right through active farm fields - they don't bother to go around them. The owners didn't realize the contract gives the wind people carte blanche to do whatever they want in the name of access and maintenance. The drainage for the fields is destroyed, and the farmers aren't allowed to do anything to correct it (like put a drain pipe under the access road), because it "might interfere with the company's right to access."
It's a disgrace.
A number of owners from the first groups that signed the contracts referred to above were horrified at what was done to their property and how they found they were locked off of it, sometimes with armed guards patrolling. The land is ravaged and left unplanted (you couldn't even do that with a strip mine anymore), and the access roads go right through active farm fields - they don't bother to go around them. The owners didn't realize the contract gives the wind people carte blanche to do whatever they want in the name of access and maintenance. The drainage for the fields is destroyed, and the farmers aren't allowed to do anything to correct it (like put a drain pipe under the access road), because it "might interfere with the company's right to access."
It's a disgrace.
Marsha, you been to west Texas lately?
I've also seen saw those in CA.
I've stood directly under "industrial" wind turbines in TX, sure there is a slight noise from the wind on the blades but I didn't think it is was all that unpleasant and I was right under it. (see my photo) Besides they don't install then in residential areas. (or they don't in TX)
Disagree, they both get power from wind and they both make some noise!
People cry about the price of electricity but don't want wind turbines, even on other peoples property. (I don't agree wind power will be any cheaper in the long run)
People cry about the price of gas but don't want any more drilling.
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I've only seen one large wind farm here in Wisconsin. Needless to say all the arguments previously stated are going on here.
And then there's this: http://green.venturebeat.com/2010/03/01/great-lakes-wind-farms-are-failing-the-nimby-test/
And then there's this: http://green.venturebeat.com/2010/03/01/great-lakes-wind-farms-are-failing-the-nimby-test/
Cris, thanks for posting that article.
When we first bought our farm we were very interested in a single wind turbine for our use. For around $10,000 we would have some freedom from Ontario Hydro.
We no longer want one after discovering that our farm and area is a prime resting site for migrating Canada geese, Snow geese, and so many other birds.
And I surely don't want my bats to disappear. We also have an amazing pitch black night sky with no area lighting either. Love it.
Sooo, now we are back into considering solar panels. They sit on the roof, quietly.
When we first bought our farm we were very interested in a single wind turbine for our use. For around $10,000 we would have some freedom from Ontario Hydro.
We no longer want one after discovering that our farm and area is a prime resting site for migrating Canada geese, Snow geese, and so many other birds.
And I surely don't want my bats to disappear. We also have an amazing pitch black night sky with no area lighting either. Love it.
Sooo, now we are back into considering solar panels. They sit on the roof, quietly.
Been thinking of going to Amarillo in 2 weeks. It's been a while since I've driven there -- maybe 3-4 years. I've seen the turbine blades being hauled north on I-20 south of Fort Worth, heading out toward West Texas via Abilene, Midland, I guess. There's also a company about 4-5 miles from our house that makes wind turbines. At least, I guess that's what they make; there's a miniature turbine mounted in the front of the business.Marsha, you been to west Texas lately?
I've also seen saw those in CA.
Seems I read a newspaper article about one town around the Dallas area that was setting rules for homeowners that wanted to set up their own windmills. Almost prohibitive.
Olefin,
Comparing industrial wind turbines to windmills is like comparing the Titanic to an outboard motor boat. They both float and use engines. So maybe everything isn't bigger in Texas.
We aren't allowed to stand under wind turbines. Because roads are public, we can stand there. I'm referring to the noise of the turbine itself and maybe the transformer at the base of the 500' tower, but remember I was several hundred feet away from it.
With each turbine costing about one million I can only see electricity charges increasing. Everything has to be paid for somehow.
Increased population increases demand and service and prices go up not down. That's what's happening.
Comparing industrial wind turbines to windmills is like comparing the Titanic to an outboard motor boat. They both float and use engines. So maybe everything isn't bigger in Texas.
We aren't allowed to stand under wind turbines. Because roads are public, we can stand there. I'm referring to the noise of the turbine itself and maybe the transformer at the base of the 500' tower, but remember I was several hundred feet away from it.
With each turbine costing about one million I can only see electricity charges increasing. Everything has to be paid for somehow.
Increased population increases demand and service and prices go up not down. That's what's happening.
palmaceae
Well-known member
We have a lot of wind farms here in Iowa, I certainly have no problem with them. They are huge and really cool looking, and we have a lot of wind here.
Yes, out towards Midland/Odessa is a big area for wind turbines. We drive the back roads from Texarkana to Odessa and really get into wind turbines west of Brownwood. But they're getting all over west Texas.
There was a car dealership in Odessa that installed 2 smaller wind turbines about 35 years ago. Most of the time they produced more power than the dealership needed and he sold the surplus back to the power company.
When I was a kid, us and no one else that lived on farms had electricity. But my uncle had a "Wind Charger" that produced a whooping 6 DC volts. He had a bunch of large storage batteries that were in glass containers. It supplied all the lighting for their house. I thought that was pretty cool back then.
You were the one that said there was NO comparison between the two.
Maybe you've never seen a Texas windmill, like they had 60 years ago.
The wind turbine I was under is located on wind museum property near Lubbock, TX. The transformer was a few feet from me, it makes a very low hum.
Also had a wind turbine on the ground that hadn't been assemble.
I feel the same, I think they add to the landscape.
Wish I owned a couple sections loaded with wind turbines!
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netmiff
Well-known member
We have some here in Chatham-Kent, but they are way, way to the south of us. I have only seen them once. Check out www.ckdp.ca (it's our local online newspaper), there has been a lot of complaining around here. Some people say they are getting sick from the vibrations, maybe the EM pulses, too. Our area is on the short-list for a whole new bunch, and they may even start making them around here or Windsor. Our local community college is also the first in Ontario (I believe) to start a course for wind-power construction/maintenance.
On the other hand, I have seen more enclosed turbines for small properties that are much smaller, they look like they work on the same principles as the whirly things we sometimes see on top of chimneys.
I know of someone who owns a marina, he put a windmill-thing out on the water, and not only generated enough power to run his own operations, but sold a chunk of it back to Ontario Power Generation.
On the other hand, I have seen more enclosed turbines for small properties that are much smaller, they look like they work on the same principles as the whirly things we sometimes see on top of chimneys.
I know of someone who owns a marina, he put a windmill-thing out on the water, and not only generated enough power to run his own operations, but sold a chunk of it back to Ontario Power Generation.
One of the issues is that there are more different types of large wind tubines than you would think. The brand being employed in the foothills leading to the DownEast portion of Maine is known for its "thump." Why they can't use another type, or why they don't give the contracts to other companies who would use quieter ones that only wreck the landscape is unknown - other than possibly a lot of money changing hands. Unfortunately, the investigations and the recriminations come later, well after the damage is done. Then the political perpetrators just shrug and say, "Oh, well. Too late now. Nothing we can do. They're already there now." All this destruction for a result that is labelled by their own experts as "marginal."
One of the things every fourth grader knows is that stripped soil on mountainsides causes flooding, erosion, and permanent damage (e.g. California mudslides). As well, most of Maine is considered rain forest, which is damaged by each encroachment. These are among the vast forests that pump out the oxygen and clean the air for the Northern Hemisphere. Funny how we have activists to try to save the Amazon rain forests, and shamelessly sell our own breath to no value. It's already been brought up about the loss of birds and bats, and the abandonment of the area by other wildlife, which makes virgin, forested mountainsides with marginal winds an especially poor choice. And as for those of us who love to fish: we know that the phosphorus from the opened soil washing into the streams, rivers, and eventually lakes decimates the salmonid populations (all types of trout and salmon). Maine is destroying its future, which rests with its astounding beauty and natural recreations like fishing.
I do believe there are areas that have bountiful winds and would cause far less wildlife loss. And there are likely ways (mesh? high-pitched sounds?) that can help to protect some birds and bats. But just throwing wind turbines up everywhere that land is cheap doesn't make sense, either economically, or environmentally.
Best wishes,
One of the things every fourth grader knows is that stripped soil on mountainsides causes flooding, erosion, and permanent damage (e.g. California mudslides). As well, most of Maine is considered rain forest, which is damaged by each encroachment. These are among the vast forests that pump out the oxygen and clean the air for the Northern Hemisphere. Funny how we have activists to try to save the Amazon rain forests, and shamelessly sell our own breath to no value. It's already been brought up about the loss of birds and bats, and the abandonment of the area by other wildlife, which makes virgin, forested mountainsides with marginal winds an especially poor choice. And as for those of us who love to fish: we know that the phosphorus from the opened soil washing into the streams, rivers, and eventually lakes decimates the salmonid populations (all types of trout and salmon). Maine is destroying its future, which rests with its astounding beauty and natural recreations like fishing.
I do believe there are areas that have bountiful winds and would cause far less wildlife loss. And there are likely ways (mesh? high-pitched sounds?) that can help to protect some birds and bats. But just throwing wind turbines up everywhere that land is cheap doesn't make sense, either economically, or environmentally.
Best wishes,
