AVR then I got covid 1 year later and I now have diabetes!

[dornole]

Ugh. Wish I could get a cgm for hubs. Maybe we can private pay. It doesn’t make sense to me to wait until he’s insulin dependent first. : (

 

[Paleowoman]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swan_neck_flaskForgot to put link in .

The Swan Neck Flask experiment of Pasteur was to show that germs did not have spontaneous generation.

The curve of the flask prevents outside air from entering the flask so no contamination occurs.

When the neck of the flask is broken off, bacteria reach the sterile broth and organism growth occurs

The Swan Neck Flask experiment therefore shows that to stop breathing in germs, ie bacteria and viruses, you’d have to have very strong barrier, a barrier much, much stronger than a face mask to stop you breathing in the air !

 

[Critter]

I would suggest to you not to wear a mask since you absolutely believe it doesn’t work. Not going to convince anti-maskers over the internet or in person for that matter. They apparently know all of the science.

 

[thomas999]

I think proven is a strong word, especially when they acknowledge themselves things like:

Evidence is limited by imprecision and heterogeneity for these subjective outcomes. ​

​

We are very uncertain on the effects of N95/P2 respirators ​

​

moderate‐certainty evidence​

​

Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness (ILI)/COVID‐19 like illness compared to not wearing masks (risk ratio (RR) 0.95, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.84 to 1.09; 9 trials, 276,917 participants​

​

Harms were poorly measured and reported, but discomfort wearing medical/surgical masks or N95/P2 respirators was mentioned in several studies (very low‐certainty evidence). ​

while forgetting it was not about the outcome of disease progression, it was actually about reducing the rapidity of progression of transmission within the community or the R value. I don't think anyone doubted that over time everyone would get it. I for one have said its a almost a certainty that I'd get it (and I did).

Using "proven" is like saying "all" ... if I were to say "all Americans are unable to read properly" it would be improper and wrong.

Its the correct and accurate use of words which distinguishes science and veracity from hype or marketing or pushing an agenda.

I wonder if you're watching a particular YouTube channel by a well known educator?

The Authors conclusions sums it up

Authors' conclusions​

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions.​

proof indeed

I haven't looked over the subject extensively, but I thought there were numerous studies indicating the same results, that masking has little to no value in stopping the spread of covid or dying from covid. Just the same, I have my own feelings on masking, I think it contains a lot of personal moisture that is expelled during breathing, and especially coughing or sneezing. I feel the masks that people wear benefit others more than it does themselves, but that would be a good thing if it is true. I have a doctor's appointment this Thursday that requires masking and don't have a problem wearing one in. It is a bit of a p i t a, but nonetheless, I will wear my mask.

 

[Paleowoman]

I would suggest to you not to wear a mask since you absolutely believe it doesn’t work. Not going to convince anti-maskers over the internet or in person for that matter. They apparently know all of the science.

I haven’t worn a mask for months and months now. Very few people here - England outskirts of London - are wearing them now. Today I had an appointment at hospital to see my endocrinologist - neither he nor any of the nursing staff were wearing masks, same with the other patients I saw. Last Saturday I saw my cardiologist and neither he nor the nursing staff were wearing masks either. I went into town after my appointment this afternoon and I spotted only a couple of masks, and I came home on the bus - no one was wearing a mask.

 

[pellicle]

that masking has little to no value in stopping the spread of covid or dying from covid.

I suspect the problem is not masking, its all the stupid idiots who didn't.

Have you noticed that people ignore science when it doesn't fit their view but reach out to it when it does?

This is called "confirmation bias seeking"

 

[70sdiver]

Not sure I understand your logic here so your on your 5th covid shot but your advocating to protrect yourself? so how many covid shots do we need?

 

[70sdiver]

I suspect the problem is not masking, its all the stupid idiots who didn't.

Have you noticed that people ignore science when it doesn't fit their view but reach out to it when it does?

This is called "confirmation bias seeking"

So it's not the mask fault it's the people that didn't wear one that's the problem? I have noticed that that people that ignore the science when it doesn't fit their view but reach out to it when it does as you are living proof ! The science has always said masking doesn't work as you can see by the op statement they always wore their mask yet it didn't work and here you are trying to blame the maskless.

 

[pellicle]

The science has always said masking doesn't work

actually, not it didn't. You can pick the parts of the studies all you like

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...al advice where you live and work. Do it all!
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn... estimates from regions across six continents
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014564118#:~:text=A primary route,compliance is high
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...h face masks needs further investigation,-[7,
I recommend you use the vatican approved citation picker for going through that swathe of evidence and finding how it was ineffective.

I strongly recommend the Vatican approved version of citation cherry pickers because those guys have at least a thousand years of cherry picking that resource.

But perhaps before that you just read what I wrote.

Either way it matters not what you think because I'll be wearing a mask around you just in case. Because:

Best Wishes

 

[Critter]

Well after this discussion and my newfound thoughts there is no such thing as the “germ theory”. I will quit wearing my mask, and get rid of my gloves and go back to the 1800’s and put bare hands in people’s bodies and cough into wounds. Let’s see where that gets us. This discussion is so idiotic , I am out.

 

[Paleowoman]

Well after this discussion and my newfound thoughts there is no such thing as the “germ theory”. I will quit wearing my mask, and get rid of my gloves and go back to the 1800’s and put bare hands in people’s bodies and cough into wounds. Let’s see where that gets us. This discussion is so idiotic , I am out.

Hey Critter - of course there is "germ theory" - but the issue here is how to stop breathing in the germs. If you can breathe through your mask you will breathe in many germs, particularly viruses as they are extremely small.

Gloves will of course stop the skin on your hands picking up viruses. And no one would say it's okay to cough into wounds or even cough or sneeze into someone's face - at any time, not just during a pandemic.

We are attacked by viruses and bacteria every day, not just Covid viruses. Our bodies have produced defence mechanisms to help us fight viruses and bacteria. And there are vaccines which help. But we do not place ourselves in harm's way, we wash our hands and clean things, we don't go out when we feel ill so that we don't intentionally spread germs. We sneeze into something and throw it away, and so on and on.

 

[Chuck C]

Well after this discussion and my newfound thoughts there is no such thing as the “germ theory”. I will quit wearing my mask, and get rid of my gloves and go back to the 1800’s and put bare hands in people’s bodies and cough into wounds.

Shoot, let's bring back the Middle Ages, while we're at it. I expect you'll see an increase in business if you take up leeching and bleeding.

I wonder if the folks that are convinced that masks don't work to stop germs would go into their next OHS procedure with the surgical team unmasked?

 

[Critter]

 

[thomas999]

Two barriers that people used during covid-19 were masks and gloves. Rather than a strictly scientific study and survey, common sense would tell me that masking would help to some degree. Simply, when a person breathes or especially sneezes or coughs, the mask will prevent some of their body moisture from being expelled into the air. That's just plain common sense. To me, no matter what the study or survey that any group independent or government make, I still believe masking has some effectiveness against covid, and other viruses as well. If an unmasked person sneezes imagine the water droplets that are expelled into the air as opposed to the same person sneezing with a mask on. Again, this is just plain common sense to me. Now for gloves, that is a different story. I feel people get a false sense of security seeing that they have gloves on their hands. A virus enters the body through one's nose, eyes, and mouth, and I guess it can enter through a break in the skin. In this case I suppose gloves would help, but it just seems to me that they are a device that just collects a lot of dirt, and bacteria. I guess if somebody has a cut on their hand it may be wise to wear gloves, although when people wear gloves they have a tendency not to wash their hands as often. When I passed through a McDonald's drive-thru say, the individual collecting money and handing out food maybe wearing gloves, only to pass whatever is on their gloves on to the person who is the recipient. In the interim, they rarely wash their hands, and I have seen gloves that look absolutely filthy on their hands.

 

[Critter]

When using gloves I was trained to use aseptic technique. I don’t touch anything except and area of the body that has been properly prepped for surgery. I don’t pick my nose or scratch my butt, I keep my hands in front of me folded on each other. This is all done before a 5 minute scrub at a sink with surgical hand cleaners and a brush for fingernails. People at McDonald’s are wearing gloves but those are not sterile. Not equivalent.

 

[pellicle]

Two barriers that people used during covid-19 were masks and gloves

It's airborne, and infects via the mucosa, gloves are in this case not different than hand washing. You'll still touch your face near your eyes or nose with the glove

 

[dornole]

Well even though this thread devolved into mask stuff, which I can’t believe anyone still wants to argue about, it prodded me to call insurance about cgm for my hubs with diabetes and investigate costs. So thanks for raising it, Critter, and sorry about the sucky diabetes. And sorry about Covid. I know the whole thing profoundly sucked for most people in the medical field and I for one appreciate the care.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Well even though this thread devolved into mask stuff,

rather like "that other thread" ... its interesting isn't it

sorry to read that your husband has diabetes.

Best Wishes

PS; photo mine taken on a holiday there with my lovely wife some years back

ahh, to be the man I was.

 

[jeffp]

I don’t pick my nose or scratch my butt

Wait a minute…you trying to tell me that when you get an itchy butt during surgery, you don’t scratch it? We’ll, who’s going to scratch it, the scrub nurse? (Come to think of it; that might have advantages.).

 

[pellicle]

@Critter not sure if you ever waded through this quagmire, which started out as a reasonable question and went on for 46 pages
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/covid-vaccines.888059/