What do you do when your cardiologist lies to you?

[Protimenow]

Being an ex-CCU nurse and able to read rhythm strips well, I completely agree with Eva and vitdoc.

If you believe your cardio to be competent, ask for a Holter monitor. Ask him to explain what he doesn't see as an issue, but you feel is a big issue. It may be that explaining some benign minor arrhythmia and why it is benign and what it looks like, etc., etc., may be too in-depth and too time consuming for him.

Ask questions. Get a Holter, get a repeat EKG or a copy of your EKG. Make an appointment to discuss these reports with him and say you want to understand in a very rudimentary way why he is not concerned, not that you want to become an expert in reading arrhythmias.

A strong opinion on this forum regarding rhythm strips via wrist watches is that they are not accurate compared to technology performed in hospital.

Watches and the two-finger device that is being sold on TV obviously can't match the 12 lead EKGs done at doctor's offices or hospitals. They shouldn't be perceived as diagnostic. The Oura Ring (I'd really like to have one) is more intimately connected to the body than a watch and might provide a better EKG - but it's still using one lead.

However, even with the one lead EKG, these things can do readings that may suggest cardiac issues. (The $79 device will spot bradycardia and A-Fib - big deal - they're just counting heart rate.) I've seen a device that lets you send the results of the EKG to a 'medical professional' for interpretation - probably at a significant fee.

No. I don't trust my watch to give me a professional quality EKG, but it may help to separate 'Inconclusive' from 'sinus rhythm.'

One other device that does a bit of diagnosing - recent blood pressure machines. The ones I use have an indicator on the screen that shows that an arrhythmia was found (this is why it can't get an accurate heart rate). It doesn't define what kind of arrhythmia, but IS an indication that you're not having normal sinus rhythm while it's testing your BP.

 

[oo0My_Valve0oo]

You appear to be more upset that your own perceptions are not being validated by the cardiologist than the cardiologist appears to be lying to you.

"Lying" is a pretty harsh accusation. Why would a cardiologist lie about what you have described? I understand the concept that he is "handling" you. Whether or not that is the truth, a cardiologist is treading in dangerous water pretending everything is okay IF it isn't. He could be sued for malpractice if your actual condition puts you at risk and his approach harms you.

Rather than immediately dumping him and finding a replacement I suggest that you first seek at least one more opinion. Your perception of everything will be enhanced by expanding your sources of information. I don't recommend elaborating how you feel about the current cardiologist. Make sure you do not poison the well. You want to avoid leading other doctors to a poisoned well. You want the additional opinion(s) to be clean and free of bias. It is possible that the current cardiologist isn't "handling" you. You could trigger another doctor into "handling" you in the process of explaining why you want a 2nd opinion. There is nothing unusual or suspect about seeking other opinions. Just say you would like to hear what another doctor thinks, period.

Regarding personal/home ECG devices, they do generic diagnosis because they have not been approved to do more. However limited a 1 or 6 lead personal device is, they are useful when you work with a doctor. Of course you need to resolve this situation with your cardiologist. My cardiologist suggested I purchase something like a Kardia device so I can take readings while I am actively going through daily routines. I am to send copies to him. I am currently wearing a Holter EKG. If I could afford it I would ask my doc for a prescription which would allow me to purchase a medical grade 12-lead EKG machine. I have seen them for as little as $700.

Good luck!

 

[Protimenow]

I didn't give the name of the cardiologist, did I? I live in an area with dozens (if not more) cardiologists.

Isn't withholding information, telling me that everything is okay even if it isn't, a form of lying?

His statement that I've had no PVCs may, perhaps, be correct - but why didn't he address my other arrhythmias? If I shouldn't be concerned about the arrhythmias that I was feeling, hearing, and confirming on my watch were of no particular concern, shouldn't he have told me?

I don't know that I need a holter - the pacemaker supposedly records my rhythm so a holter may be unnecessary.

 

[oo0My_Valve0oo]

I can only speculate but possible explanations off the top of my head: He is familiar with your condition and knows you are fine. His style is not to do point by point explanations. He may be set in his ways and somewhat lazy and unwilling to go out of his way. He may be the type of doctor more focused on the condition than the person with the condition.

I have had doctors who were arrogant about their importance snd time and who should be confined to lab experiments and surgeries with no conscious patient interaction. One doc when I was recovering from OHS scorned a cleaning woman because she entered my room while the doc was seeing me. Yet 5+ nurses and assistants entered my room having a discussion when I had requested privacy using the pooper chair in ICU where there are no bathrooms. The cleaning woman event happened later on when I had been moved out of ICU. I befriended the lowest tiered employees. I made a point to immediately welcome her as she entered not seeing the doc was present. It wasn't intentional but I interrupted the doc to greet the cleaning woman then noticed the arrogant scorn on the doc's face as she looked at the cleaning lady. I could not know of course but I suspect your cardiologist is just not matching your needs rather than lying to you. And you have every right to seek someone that does of course.

 

[Amy]

I don't recommend elaborating how you feel about the current cardiologist. Make sure you do not poison the well. You want to avoid leading other doctors to a poisoned well. You want the additional opinion(s) to be clean and free of bias.

This is really good advice. My husband gave it to me and it worked twice to get a warfarin prescription, after other doctors refused, since I’m self-managing INR and won’t go to their Coumadin clinics.

I need a good cardiologist too. Lately I feel like all doctors (I’ve seen six in the last two months) are under some sort of spell or hypnosis, where they just go through the motions but don’t see you or care. At all. What you’re describing is verrry familiar. Are you in Ohio too? I mean, I know they’re busy but it’s depressing.

Good luck, protimenow!

 

[Mister_James]

I'm faced with a bit of a dilemma.

My cardiologist seems to think that I need to be 'handled' and not actually told what's going on with my heart.

No, I'm not crazy. Somewhere along the line, he decided that I'm one of the patients who should be told that 'everything is okay' -- even when it isn't.

I have had a St. Jude aortic valve since 1991. As a result, I can hear my valve closing when I pay attention to the click.

I can hear when I have normal sinus rhythm, and when my rhythm isn't right.

I have an Apple Watch 7 that takes an EKG (they call it an ECG). Much of the time, I'm seeing rhythm irregularities on the ECG that the watch takes.

Sometimes I feel the effects of these arrhythmias.

My Merlin At Home device, which takes a snapshot of the information it reads from my pacemaker, goes off many mornings. I was told by St. Jude that the device detected something that the cardiologist should know about and that a report is sent, but my cardiologist says that everything's fine.

I saw him yesterday. Even with my untrained eyes, I could see that the EKG taken in the doctor's office showed arrhythmias. He didn't even LOOK at it.

He interrogated my pacemaker, and told me that he didn't see any PVCs.

I hear arrhythmias (because my valve clicks). I detect them on my watch. I saw them on the EKG taken in the doctor's office.

But he persists in telling me that everything's fine.

Should I challenge him on this?
Should I threaten to go to someone else who would be honest with me?
Should I just switch cardiologists?

Should I have my PCP take and see what he thinks?

This is a good cardiologist. He answers calls after hours. He seems responsive - but I'm convinced that he's 'handling' me, telling me what he thinks I want to hear. It's nice to give this 'rosy picture' to my wife so she doesn't worry, but am I getting a disservice when the information is wrong?

Vitdoc, Nobog, and others, I'd like your opinions about what to do.

Thanks

The problem of playing doctor. There are dangerous heart rhythms and some that are nothing.
PVCs for the most part are nothing. You will feel the flutter, you will hear the valves clasp but they don't do much other than panic you.
Your doctor knows best so just ask him straight. Are you handling me?

 

[Paul Schur]

I'm faced with a bit of a dilemma.

My cardiologist seems to think that I need to be 'handled' and not actually told what's going on with my heart.

No, I'm not crazy. Somewhere along the line, he decided that I'm one of the patients who should be told that 'everything is okay' -- even when it isn't.

I have had a St. Jude aortic valve since 1991. As a result, I can hear my valve closing when I pay attention to the click.

I can hear when I have normal sinus rhythm, and when my rhythm isn't right.

I have an Apple Watch 7 that takes an EKG (they call it an ECG). Much of the time, I'm seeing rhythm irregularities on the ECG that the watch takes.

Sometimes I feel the effects of these arrhythmias.

My Merlin At Home device, which takes a snapshot of the information it reads from my pacemaker, goes off many mornings. I was told by St. Jude that the device detected something that the cardiologist should know about and that a report is sent, but my cardiologist says that everything's fine.

I saw him yesterday. Even with my untrained eyes, I could see that the EKG taken in the doctor's office showed arrhythmias. He didn't even LOOK at it.

He interrogated my pacemaker, and told me that he didn't see any PVCs.

I hear arrhythmias (because my valve clicks). I detect them on my watch. I saw them on the EKG taken in the doctor's office.

But he persists in telling me that everything's fine.

Should I challenge him on this?
Should I threaten to go to someone else who would be honest with me?
Should I just switch cardiologists?

Should I have my PCP take and see what he thinks?

This is a good cardiologist. He answers calls after hours. He seems responsive - but I'm convinced that he's 'handling' me, telling me what he thinks I want to hear. It's nice to give this 'rosy picture' to my wife so she doesn't worry, but am I getting a disservice when the information is wrong?

Vitdoc, Nobog, and others, I'd like your opinions about what to do.

Thanks

There’s no need to challenge or threaten. The need is for you to find out if you’re healthy and to make sense of what you’re feeling. Make noise and get 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions. This is your valve and your peace of mind. I’ve had my mechanical valve since June 2014 and I’m doing great all around largely due to the trust I have in my doctors, specifically my cardiologist. And I did have to leave a “good” cardiologist at one point in this journey, and I’m grateful I did. Good luck!

 

[pellicle]

Your doctor knows best so just ask him straight. Are you handling me?

pardon me, but what does this mean?

• inappropriate touching
• behaving well in a difficult and bumpy corner
• Protime has changed who in the CIA is his direct contact?

I seriously can't think of anything else which fits and won't get me a tap on the shoulder to "delete that".

I'm assuming its something like saying something is "sick" when when you mean its really good.

 

[oo0My_Valve0oo]

pardon me, but what does this mean?

• inappropriate touching
• behaving well in a difficult and bumpy corner
• Protime has changed who in the CIA is his direct contact?

I seriously can't think of anything else which fits and won't get me a tap on the shoulder to "delete that".

I'm assuming its something like saying something is "sick" when when you mean its really good.

Are you really serious? If you are just making light of a potential double entendre you should include an emoticon/emoji to eliminate doubt. The OP used "handling me" to describe delicate treatment as though he is high maintenance, (Initial post-) "I'm convinced that he's 'handling' me, telling me what he thinks I want to hear." Mister_James even quoted the OP's post he was addressing. (quoted post-) "My cardiologist seems to think that I need to be 'handled' and not actually told what's going on with my heart."

 

[Protimenow]

I'm in California, not Ohio.
I haven't indicated his name or anything else identifiable about this doctor (or maybe I should also say 'her' name).

I believe he has in his mind that I'm an alarmist and possibly something of a hypochondriac.

I feel the arrhythmias. I see them on ECG on my watch (not reliable, but an indication). I hear the arrhythmias because I have a prosthetic valve. I don't know if they're of concern or not - but I DO get out of breath easily, I DO nap a bit during the day (but don't sleep well, so this may be the reason). I'll eventually talk to the doctor to get results of my echocardiogram (my current ejection fraction), but I assume that it probably hasn't changed enough to let me know.

 

[tom in MO]

I have a very good friend who is an alarmist. He gets highly anxious over any doctor visit. He's had to be medicated after some high anxiety moments at the doctor. He was told straight up by his internist not to use Google but to call them if he has questions and they will explain it to him. When people try to give him medical advice, he puts up his hand and asks for them to stop per his doctor's request.

 

[Protimenow]

I got some time with my cardiologist, after complaining to the person who was involved in monitoring my blood pressure.

The doctor finally agreed that I was getting PVCs. I reminded him that my prosthetic valve made it possible for me to hear my valve.

He told me that my ejection fraction was around 35 and said that I should get what he called a 'pacemaker upgrade' -- a biventricular pacemaker with defibrillator. I'm not really afraid about the procedure -- the thought of it scares my wife more than it does me. The fact that it's not being done in a hospital is a bit of a concern, bun this cardiologist has probably done thousands of pacemaker placements and wasn't concerned about complications.

He may even be a bit flexible about bridging.

I had a nuclear stress test a few days ago.

The doctor is apparently being straight with me. I may have just had to give him some time to realize that this is what I want, and to present with symptoms he can't reasonably expect me to ignore any longer.

 

[BionicBuddy]

I got some time with my cardiologist . . .

The doctor is apparently being straight with me. I may have just had to give him some time to realize that this is what I want, and to present with symptoms he can't reasonably expect me to ignore any longer.

I'm so glad to see you working with your cardiologist for the betterment of your health . . . . so important to have a respectful and good working relationship with your specialists.

 

[Protimenow]

Our relationship seems to be mutually respectful.

I wish there was some way to ease my wife's fear and anxiety about the pacemaker implantation. I'm truly all that she has (and vice versa). Once I can demonstrate that I'm okay, SHE will let me get her care for her stuff (she continues to refuse to see a doctor).

I'm making a list (and checking it twice?) of things to do before the surgery (should be fairly minor as far as surgery goes) and plan to finally get some sheeit done in the next few days.

 

[BionicBuddy]

I wish there was some way to ease my wife's fear and anxiety about the pacemaker implantation. I'm truly all that she has (and vice versa). Once I can demonstrate that I'm okay, SHE will let me get her care for her stuff (she continues to refuse to see a doctor).

I suppose I can speak to this, being the wife of a BAV/very severe AS man in a country where medical procedures move very slowly.

I understand your wife's fear and anxiety, but they are hers and not yours. Hopefully she will do things to help herself so she can be more centred for you - whatever that may be, including seeing a doctor if her medical needs are urgent, or dealing with her fear and anxiety so she can be there as a stronger support for you. Personally, I walk in nature, meditate, do Qi Gong, etc., etc., to center myself so I can be at my best for hubby, especially when he will be needing it most. Some people, whether by nurture or nature or both, are very chill (like many people on this website), and others, like your wife, me, and my hubby - not so much chill. We all have to work much harder to find our center and be there for those we love.

I totally understand her waiting on her own medical care until you are clear sailing (unless it is an urgent medical need or she needs to deal with her fear and anxiety in a pharmaceutical way). My healthcare practitioner just ordered preventive health blood tests and preventive health ECG on me, and I told her I will be doing them after hubby is figured out. That's normal.

You may wish to expand your circle of people both you and your wife can rely on. There are many incredible people in this world. Be open to that possibility. You never know what positive roads life may take you on.

Wishing you the best on your surgery!

 

[Protimenow]

My surgery was yesterday and it went well. I'm feeling stronger, and my kidneys seem to have kicked into overdrive now that there's more blood flowing through them.

In the first posting in this thread I said that the doctor seemed to be keeping the fact that I was having PVCs from me.

I read the information booklet that I got with my pacemaker and saw that the default setting for recording PVGs is to record them when there are three or more in a row. My arrhythmias usually came on every third beat -- meaning that the pacemaker wouldn't have recorded them and the doctor wouldn't have been informed of them.

I'm guessing that a PVC every second or third beat may sound troubling when I hear it or when my watch records it, but if it isn't enough for my pacemaker to record, it may not be as big of a deal as I thought it was.