Warfarin (Coumadin) and sleep problems

[Rik A]

Hi,

After severn years on daily Warfarin, post double valve op, I am experiencing regular bouts of sleep insomnia. It occurs approximately every 4 weeks and would last for between 2-3 nights where I would experience between 2-4 hours of sleep per night. By the end of a typical round of it I am at a deep level of extreme fatigue and left unable to navigate the world safely, am extremely mentally fragile and I am forced to cancel any work commitments for fear of putting others at risk (I work as a personal assistant for people with physical disabilities). Thankfully my body takes charge and forces me to have a 10-12 hour sleep to catch up, which is greatly appreciated but the experience during the sleep deprivation is hellish!

So I am curious if others who take warfarin post valve replacement are experiencing regular insomnia?

Is there any info that points to Warfarin affecting sleep patterns?

Though its not generally listed as such, is sleep loss a documented side affect of regular Warfarin usage?

I have heard many rumours over the years that recreational drug dealers add Warfarin to MDMA pills to both bulk out and to add speed-like affect to the pills. This naturally makes me wonder if Warfarin has amphetamine qualities, though I also am aware this could just be street rumours.

Any shared experience would be much appreciated!

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Sorry to read about the sleep problems

So I am curious if others who take warfarin post valve replacement are experiencing regular insomnia?

I have had insomnia, but it's never been related to warfarin.

Is there any info that points to Warfarin affecting sleep patterns?

literally first time I've even heard this in about ten years of being on this forum and seeing what I'd thought was everything possible attributed to warfarin.

When did the insomnia start?

I have heard many rumours over the years that recreational drug dealers add Warfarin to MDMA pills to both bulk out and to add speed-like affect to the pills.

Another first.

I would ask a doctor about the insomnia.

 

[Superman]

Almost 32 years on Warfarin here. This is a new one (both the sleep and street drugs).

Seems like many things easily attributable to age are sometimes blamed on long term warfarin use. I assume this is due to the, “After, therefore because”, (aka correlation does not equal causation), logical fallacy.

“Never had this problem before long term warfarin use!”

“Well, you were 17 when you started. Gray hair just happens.”

 

[Rik A]

Hi Superman and pellicle

Thanks for your input. Its good to hear two people's point of view, with long history's of taking Warfarin, haven't heard of such connections to its long term use. I'm aware that there could be a number of factors into my insomnia attacks, including increase in age with its long list of troublesome physical malfunctions. And the street drug thing is, as I said, rumours that I have heard, nothing more.

“After, therefore because”, (aka correlation does not equal causation), logical fallacy.

I guess I am guilty there of equating correlation with causation. The idea that Warfarin possibly being used as a cheap speed additive to recreational street pills made me put two and two together and coming up with a possible reason for my insomnia. Thats why I'm asking if anyone out there is having similar effects to sleep. Correlation is of course a bad way of finding out the cause of a particular outcome. But it's easily done.

I would ask a doctor about the insomnia.

I have already talked to my doctor and they more or less said join the already very large club (I'm paraphrasing). Very little could be offered apart from pharmaceutical sleep medication, which I have no interest in taking and to be fair to the doctor, they weren't trying to push on me.

 

[pellicle]

Good morning

I have already talked to my doctor and they more or less said join the already very large club (I'm paraphrasing). Very little could be offered apart from pharmaceutical sleep medication,

well like yourself I prefer to not require medicines for daily life if it can be avoided. Sometimes it can be.

I find that these things are primary causes for my insomina

1. stress (such as work or relationship)
2. disrupted sleep patterns (such as being ill or in hospital where they love to disrupt you)
3. excessive alcohol intakes (which have been related to #1 in the past)

What I've always found works is simple; the recognition that we are highly evolved to the natural world which is of course day night driven. We are not nocturnal and late nights and late mornings are not really good for us. So basically I'm saying circadian rhythm.

I'm from a latitude where Summer/Winter day/night cycles are far more constant. When I first went to live in Finland it took some time to adapt to a sky that remained bright till 10pm and began "dawning" (in slow motion) from 2am aside: I love it when superior fctards tell me how good daylight savings are and have never lived near a tropic (like me) or near the polar circles (like I also have).

What this means is that we are adapted to eat and sleep at particular times which are dictated by the momentum of our planet, its spin and its orbit.

The invention of electricity has done wonders to our productivity and enabled us to extend day into night, but this comes with risks to the unwary.

So I have found that the following simple practice has always worked for me:

1. get up at the same time and go to bed at the same time (the vast majority of the time). Even an hour makes a difference. I get up well before I need to be up (in summer thats 5am in winter 6am for me).
2. get exersize. I have been a bike rider since I was about 10, and when (as an adult) I rode my bicycle to work I was much more rested in the mornings. My ride was 12 or so km (each way) but about 3 times a week I'd extend that to a 27km circuit on the way home. I don't go to gyms much (have a bit now and then, mostly in the early AM before work except when I lived in Tokyo and did it in the evening).
3. eat proper foods: if it comes pre-prepared in a packet its got stuff in it designed to kill the things which would want to eat it (bacteria) that do you no good (and its often sugars or salts or vinegar and those are the safer ones).
4. patterns: delelop patterns of living, your body loves those, we used to call them habits, but that word is now usually associated with bad habits (which is a bit fcked up but then that the evolution of language). Patterns include eating times. Patterns assist the body to know about the circadian rhythm.
5. Don't use your phone in bed. I've been a big internet user over the last 30 years, it pretty much didn't exist 40 years ago and so it was no part of anyones life. Yet now if you pick up your phone you can always find people active on the internet because of the first point about the physics of the day night cycle. Don't take it to bed with you. Either turn it off at night (that can be programmed) or if you need to get calls (hopefully not regularly) put it on a "quiet time" system with only essential notifications on a list which can be excepted from that rule.

Attend to all these and within 6 months I would say you'll be sleeping fine (unless you live over a night club).

 

[Chuck C]

Attend to all these and within 6 months I would say you'll be sleeping fine (unless you live over a night club).

Or, unless this is your roomate:

 

[pellicle]

Or, unless this is your roomate:

or worse ... in the (old pre sound insulation) apartment next to yours ... and you can't kick her out

PS: her words "they'll have to go through me" ... I suggest another thing instead go through her. No wonder there's so many shootings in the USA.

 

[Brinntache]

to add to Pellicle's list, try Melatonin before bed. I find it helps me, and it's about as safe as it gets.

 

[Chuck C]

to add to Pellicle's list, try Melatonin before bed. View attachment 888528I find it helps me, and it's about as safe as it gets.

I use melatonin every night. I use the lowest dose available, which is not even available in most pharmacies and needs to be ordered online. 300mcg. This is only about 3-15% as strong as the standard dosages found over the counter, which are generally 2mg to 10mg.

This is the one which I use.

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/lif...cUQBxIY7tgXRn--OGj4aAuunEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
There was a trial done which found that the lower dosage was just as effective as the higher dosages. I believe that it is generally best to use the lowest dose possible for any supplement.

 

[carolinemc]

Hi,

After severn years on daily Warfarin, post double valve op, I am experiencing regular bouts of sleep insomnia. It occurs approximately every 4 weeks and would last for between 2-3 nights where I would experience between 2-4 hours of sleep per night. By the end of a typical round of it I am at a deep level of extreme fatigue and left unable to navigate the world safely, am extremely mentally fragile and I am forced to cancel any work commitments for fear of putting others at risk (I work as a personal assistant for people with physical disabilities). Thankfully my body takes charge and forces me to have a 10-12 hour sleep to catch up, which is greatly appreciated but the experience during the sleep deprivation is hellish!

So I am curious if others who take warfarin post valve replacement are experiencing regular insomnia?

Is there any info that points to Warfarin affecting sleep patterns?

Though its not generally listed as such, is sleep loss a documented side affect of regular Warfarin usage?

I have heard many rumours over the years that recreational drug dealers add Warfarin to MDMA pills to both bulk out and to add speed-like affect to the pills. This naturally makes me wonder if Warfarin has amphetamine qualities, though I also am aware this could just be street rumours.

Any shared experience would be much appreciated!

Having a heart issue, will cause you to lose sleep. I have been the change of life, been diabetic and warfarin is not the problem since it with the blood and not the brain. If you are having sleepless night, you might need to get a sleep study done.

 

[tom in MO]

The first steps to address insomnia is to stop drinking caffeine4-6 hrs before bed, stop reading, surfing or watching TV in bed, and make sure your sleeping area is cool and dark. This helps many. You also may try relaxation therapy. All of these things have helped me in the past at various times.

 

[Superman]

Get yourself about four kids or more. Get two jobs to support kids. Get kids involved in extracurricular activities. Run kids around to activities when you’re not working. Get a house to keep up on.

All that stuff together and you’ll be exhausted at the end of every day. Falling asleep is never a problem. However falling asleep at inappropriate times can be an issue.

 

[pellicle]

All that stuff together and you’ll be exhausted

I know I laughed at that, but its not because I think you are exaggerating ;-)

 

[carolinemc]

Hi,

After severn years on daily Warfarin, post double valve op, I am experiencing regular bouts of sleep insomnia. It occurs approximately every 4 weeks and would last for between 2-3 nights where I would experience between 2-4 hours of sleep per night. By the end of a typical round of it I am at a deep level of extreme fatigue and left unable to navigate the world safely, am extremely mentally fragile and I am forced to cancel any work commitments for fear of putting others at risk (I work as a personal assistant for people with physical disabilities). Thankfully my body takes charge and forces me to have a 10-12 hour sleep to catch up, which is greatly appreciated but the experience during the sleep deprivation is hellish!

So I am curious if others who take warfarin post valve replacement are experiencing regular insomnia?

Is there any info that points to Warfarin affecting sleep patterns?

Though its not generally listed as such, is sleep loss a documented side affect of regular Warfarin usage?

I have heard many rumours over the years that recreational drug dealers add Warfarin to MDMA pills to both bulk out and to add speed-like affect to the pills. This naturally makes me wonder if Warfarin has amphetamine qualities, though I also am aware this could just be street rumours.

Any shared experience would be much appreciated!

It can be more hormonal that Metformin, which does not affect sleeping patterns. I have sleeping problems due to age and being type 2 diabetic.

 

[Warrick]

Not insomnia but still sleep related, I came across this recently as I have sleep apnea and have just started using a CPAP machine in the last few weeks, I also hover around 10-11mg a day warfarin dose depending on my INR week to week, I have spent the last 8 weeks on 11mg daily but after a few weeks on the CPAP machine and using it for longer periods I have had to reduce my dose so it will be interesting to see potentially if this reduction continues or its just coincidental

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4717994/#!po=0.909091
“OSAHS patients required a significantly higher dose of warfarin than their non-OSAHS counterparts”

 

[pellicle]

I have had to reduce my dose so it will be interesting to see potentially if this reduction continues or its just coincidental

interesting ... metabolic changes ... be intereted to see how it goes.

Sorry to hear you're on the CPAP ... were you a back sleeper before?

 

[tom in MO]

The CPAP has a lot of good side effects. In 25% of men it increases sexual function. In many people it lowers blood pressure. Once I got used to the CPAP machine it made any insomnia disappear. I am conditioned for sleep once I put on the mask and the machine starts...like Pavlov's dog.

 

[kaveshovir]

I take my warfarin at mornings.

 

[carolinemc]

I take my warfarin at mornings.

And I take mine at night and never bothers my sleep. It depends on the person. Good for you that you have the time that works for you. Have a great weekend.

 

[gwatts12]

Hi,

After severn years on daily Warfarin, post double valve op, I am experiencing regular bouts of sleep insomnia. It occurs approximately every 4 weeks and would last for between 2-3 nights where I would experience between 2-4 hours of sleep per night. By the end of a typical round of it I am at a deep level of extreme fatigue and left unable to navigate the world safely, am extremely mentally fragile and I am forced to cancel any work commitments for fear of putting others at risk (I work as a personal assistant for people with physical disabilities). Thankfully my body takes charge and forces me to have a 10-12 hour sleep to catch up, which is greatly appreciated but the experience during the sleep deprivation is hellish!

So I am curious if others who take warfarin post valve replacement are experiencing regular insomnia?

Is there any info that points to Warfarin affecting sleep patterns?

Though its not generally listed as such, is sleep loss a documented side affect of regular Warfarin usage?

I have heard many rumours over the years that recreational drug dealers add Warfarin to MDMA pills to both bulk out and to add speed-like affect to the pills. This naturally makes me wonder if Warfarin has amphetamine qualities, though I also am aware this could just be street rumours.

Any shared experience would be much appreciated!

Have you tried taking Melatonin at bedtime?