right off to see my grandkids.........isnt it great.........sun shining off for a loverly walk.......and a nice cappicino....yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Trending toward tissue?
- Thread starter hobbysdad
- Start date
Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:
M
Mary
Here's another theory: A lot of the people who post before surgery and say they are going to get a tissue valve also say, "I'm very active." Post surgery they are too busy to get on the computer!
Also, in my experience as someone with a tissue valve, there are tons of questions that I cannot answer here, because there are so many questions about mechanical valves ticking and using coumadin and warfarin. So I actually answer fewer questions than other people, even though I'm on here fairly often.
Ross
Well-known member
There are just as many tissue posters as mechanical posters. I guess some are seeing only what they wish to see. We would like for those that came through here, got there information, comfort, and whatever, then surgery, would come back and help other scared newbies as they once were, but sometimes that just doesn't happen.
Another part of the problem is, some people have had bad outcomes and are afraid to post for fear of scaring the newbies. I've gotten emails from a few in the past and I've told all of them that their stories are just as important to post as anything else. I think only one or two of about 8 have.
At any rate, once again, this thread is beginning to get rail roaded on a whole new subject. Lets stick to the topic at hand please.
Another part of the problem is, some people have had bad outcomes and are afraid to post for fear of scaring the newbies. I've gotten emails from a few in the past and I've told all of them that their stories are just as important to post as anything else. I think only one or two of about 8 have.
At any rate, once again, this thread is beginning to get rail roaded on a whole new subject. Lets stick to the topic at hand please.
I will speak for myself. I know that after the recovery from my ross procedure I really have put the whole AVR behind me and it only crosses my mind when I catch myself shirtless in front of mirror.
I have no meds except 25mg of toporol xl to keep my BP below norm per my surgeon, so I don't have to think about INR . Now I don't have a "tissue" per say, I have my own PV moved and donor new PV , but not a mechenical.
I'm 2 years plus post op and doing great and will try to help more often here on VR where I still remember being scared to death and finding this site years ago.
There is no history for the treated Edwards valve going the 20-year distance.
However, the identical, untreated Edwards valve has an average lifespan of over 18 years in those over 60 and still rising (some of the earliest implants are over 20 years old now, still going, so the average lifespan of the valve hasn't peaked - the results aren't in yet). While there is always a chance of the untreated one having less longevity, they were designed to last even longer, and there is no indication anywhere at this time that they will not match or exceed their untreated forebears.
While there is a justifiably angry poster who received a valve that had to be replaced, imperfection is a reality for both heart valves and space shuttles. There are incident listings on FDA files for failures of both tissue and mechanical valves, as both can experience these problems.
Interestingly, many of them would seem to point to installer error, although no one is blamed in the listings. Manufacturers of medical devices are often loath to point out when surgeons make mistakes installing their valves, because surgeons are their customers. This happens with pharmaceutical manufacturers in terms of doctors who misprescribe drugs as well.
Best wishes,
However, the identical, untreated Edwards valve has an average lifespan of over 18 years in those over 60 and still rising (some of the earliest implants are over 20 years old now, still going, so the average lifespan of the valve hasn't peaked - the results aren't in yet). While there is always a chance of the untreated one having less longevity, they were designed to last even longer, and there is no indication anywhere at this time that they will not match or exceed their untreated forebears.
While there is a justifiably angry poster who received a valve that had to be replaced, imperfection is a reality for both heart valves and space shuttles. There are incident listings on FDA files for failures of both tissue and mechanical valves, as both can experience these problems.
Interestingly, many of them would seem to point to installer error, although no one is blamed in the listings. Manufacturers of medical devices are often loath to point out when surgeons make mistakes installing their valves, because surgeons are their customers. This happens with pharmaceutical manufacturers in terms of doctors who misprescribe drugs as well.
Best wishes,
W
westie
100% your choice
100% your choice
.
the surgeon who replaced my valve maintained that laboratory tests of valve function and life only prove the valve can perform as such in a laboratory; its performance when implanted in a human could be quite diferent. so the jury is still out on the new generation tissue valves.
if mitral valve repair proves to be not viable, you will end up with 2 tissue valves; which according to my logic will double your chances or a re op within say 10 years. now i had totally painless surgery but i never want to go through that freaking proceedure again. also, if your tissue valve/s actually do last 15/20 years you will end up having a re op at 70/75 years. at the hospital i saw some old folks post ohs, it was not a pretty sight, they were totally whacked; ones ability to handle this proceedure surely declines expodentially with age.
do not worry about warfarin, it has made zero diference to my life; still eat and drink what i want and work hard in my car workshop under cars, cutting steel, welding, driving my tractor, ploughing soil etc etc. there are no lifestyle restrictions arising from warfarin.
anyway, the choice is 100% yours, and so it should be. good luck with what ever you decide
100% your choice
.
the surgeon who replaced my valve maintained that laboratory tests of valve function and life only prove the valve can perform as such in a laboratory; its performance when implanted in a human could be quite diferent. so the jury is still out on the new generation tissue valves.
if mitral valve repair proves to be not viable, you will end up with 2 tissue valves; which according to my logic will double your chances or a re op within say 10 years. now i had totally painless surgery but i never want to go through that freaking proceedure again. also, if your tissue valve/s actually do last 15/20 years you will end up having a re op at 70/75 years. at the hospital i saw some old folks post ohs, it was not a pretty sight, they were totally whacked; ones ability to handle this proceedure surely declines expodentially with age.
do not worry about warfarin, it has made zero diference to my life; still eat and drink what i want and work hard in my car workshop under cars, cutting steel, welding, driving my tractor, ploughing soil etc etc. there are no lifestyle restrictions arising from warfarin.
anyway, the choice is 100% yours, and so it should be. good luck with what ever you decide
well have had a loverly day,arnt grandkids great,dyna so you dont think much of tissue valves then? i could say no way in hell would i go on warfarin after reading all the horror stories about it and could deal with a re op easily................but i wont cause i i think imo it disrespects peoples choices,i happen to think both choices are better than none,and would snap the hand of a surgeon if a mech valve was my only choice,also as have said before most people have a whale of a time on warfarin and seem to manage fine,and i bet most re ops go well,its just a different path we take,just wish people who have been through this where a bit more supportive of all valve replacments,..............come on valvers YEA BABY YEA.............
K
Karlynn
Ideally - we don't want anyone to be terrified or deathly afraid of any valve type and it's associated risks. The surgeon never knows what they'll see when they get in and you never know 100% if you're going to come out with the valve type you want going into the surgery. We have had people request tissue and come out with mechanical, and vise versa, due to what the surgeon assessed their issues to be once they got a look at the "real stuff".
The reality is that most of us do what needs to be done and we buck up. We don't want people to be terrified of having to face another surgery (unless they are like our few members who know that another surgery is not an option.) and we don't want people to think that if they wind up on Coumadin their "active" life is over. (Sorry folks, I'll confess that's my hot button - tissue valves are for active people, mechanicals are for couch potatoes.)
We have yet to see a valve choice and sex thread get combined - so how about I throw out the idea that I'm pretty sure that those that choose mechanical valves have a much better sex life than those that choose tissue, or Ross Procedure, or get a repair.
I think I'll start running nooowwwwwww.........
The reality is that most of us do what needs to be done and we buck up. We don't want people to be terrified of having to face another surgery (unless they are like our few members who know that another surgery is not an option.) and we don't want people to think that if they wind up on Coumadin their "active" life is over. (Sorry folks, I'll confess that's my hot button - tissue valves are for active people, mechanicals are for couch potatoes.)
We have yet to see a valve choice and sex thread get combined - so how about I throw out the idea that I'm pretty sure that those that choose mechanical valves have a much better sex life than those that choose tissue, or Ross Procedure, or get a repair.
I think I'll start running nooowwwwwww.........
B
Bridgette
LOL, that is too funny Karlynn....
Hey guys, let's not have this thread turn sour. I think, basically, we all respect people's choices and reasons, even if they are at odds with what we personally believe.
As long as the facts are presented accurately, that's the main thing.
All choices are good, they all give us a new lease on life. This is a great site where people can help and support each other in spite of their differences.
Hey guys, let's not have this thread turn sour. I think, basically, we all respect people's choices and reasons, even if they are at odds with what we personally believe.
As long as the facts are presented accurately, that's the main thing.
All choices are good, they all give us a new lease on life. This is a great site where people can help and support each other in spite of their differences.
Ross
Well-known member
Like I said before, lets stay on topic. This thread is trending dangerously close to being done. Already the pot shots and pot stirring are starting and were not going to have it.
ross spot on ,karlynn lol, good post apart from the sex ha ha,we shall have to nickname you erm.........terminator lol,those with tissues erm.........bacon crisps?........bridgette hows it going?..........well its loverly sunny here today.....so a trip out to the coast........anyone interested incoming?
M
Mary
Neil,
Intend to make a trip to England in a few years . . . hope to meet you at that time . . . enjoy the coast!
I was just noticing how different people react to the same statistic. For example, my surgeon said that my bovine valve could last between seven and twenty years. Some people would say, "Oh, no! It might not last very long, and even if it did, I would need another operation in twenty years."
When I heard the surgeon, my brain immediately dismissed the worst-case, and thought, "Wow! This thing could lasts twenty whole years!"
Same info about the valve, but different reactions.
And I also have to say this, even if people think I'm a nut. I have a personal gut feeling that despite my complications, my actual valve will last LONGER than the twenty years. My complications are not with the actual valve, which is working great.
Why do I think that? Confession time: When I was seventeen I got breast implants. I didn't know it at the time, but they were only supposed to last ten years or so. I'm 45 and I STILL HAVE THEM, and as far as anyone knows, they are in perfect shape, not leaking, not covered in scar tissue or anything.
I keep cars for a long time, too.
So call me a nut, but that's how I feel about it.
When I heard the surgeon, my brain immediately dismissed the worst-case, and thought, "Wow! This thing could lasts twenty whole years!"
Same info about the valve, but different reactions.
And I also have to say this, even if people think I'm a nut. I have a personal gut feeling that despite my complications, my actual valve will last LONGER than the twenty years. My complications are not with the actual valve, which is working great.
Why do I think that? Confession time: When I was seventeen I got breast implants. I didn't know it at the time, but they were only supposed to last ten years or so. I'm 45 and I STILL HAVE THEM, and as far as anyone knows, they are in perfect shape, not leaking, not covered in scar tissue or anything.
I keep cars for a long time, too.
So call me a nut, but that's how I feel about it.
Woodbutcher
Well-known member
Ponygirl ! You've a wonderfully positive attitude, good for you.
Wow what a confession too !? The least you can do is attach a photo of those old cars !?
Wow what a confession too !? The least you can do is attach a photo of those old cars !?
Ross
Well-known member
My total hip replacement was only supposed to last 12 years, it's been that and then some and still working fine except when the weather changes.
Ponygirlmom on a serious note, I do hope those weren't the jel filled ones. My mom had them after her cancer surgery and those things leaked and caused all sorts of problems.
my total hip replacement was only supposed to last 12 years, it's been that and then some and still working fine except when the weather changes.
you both are naughty!!
vprnet
Well-known member
I like to commend you in makeing your decision which by now is hopefully a big success.
Since many future valve patients read this site I would just line to point out one other very important concideration for mechanical and tissue valve decisions. Approximatly 30% of valve patients including tissue valves require long term warfarin due to the develoment of afib post operative.
This an other collateral risks of repeat surgery should be taken into the balance of the decision.
BAVR Dec 2009 ON-X 27mm and dacron conduit Dr. L. Girardi. NYP Weill Cornell
PS. I am not a medical professional or a doctor. My comments in this forum are my own opinion and are not intended to be given as medical or professional advise or a recommendation of any valve choice. Decisions that affect your health and wellbeing are ultimately yours and your doctors. vprnet
Since many future valve patients read this site I would just line to point out one other very important concideration for mechanical and tissue valve decisions. Approximatly 30% of valve patients including tissue valves require long term warfarin due to the develoment of afib post operative.
This an other collateral risks of repeat surgery should be taken into the balance of the decision.
BAVR Dec 2009 ON-X 27mm and dacron conduit Dr. L. Girardi. NYP Weill Cornell
PS. I am not a medical professional or a doctor. My comments in this forum are my own opinion and are not intended to be given as medical or professional advise or a recommendation of any valve choice. Decisions that affect your health and wellbeing are ultimately yours and your doctors. vprnet
The percentage of people that wind up on coumadin has been discussed here a few times and the 30% is up for debate, one of the few places I've seen the number THAT high is at the ON-X site and they study they base their data on is a very small number of people (alot of the data on their which valve graph is VERY misleading, cherry picked and/or outdated, especially the tissue cons.). I believe it was close in number to the amount of tissue patients here that filled out our non scientific surgery about who ended up on coum for A-fib that was MUCH smaller. Also WHICH valve you have replaced plays an part in the chances of longterm Afib.
Do people who have tissue valves end up on coum for Afib or other reasons? YES. But most doctors I've spoken to and reports I've read, don't say 1/3 of the patients will end up on coum anyway.
Ross
Well-known member
Sheesh, who cares what the stats are really? Some people do end up on ACT anyhow, period. Maybe it will be you, maybe it won't. No one can say until surgery is over, so if avoiding ACT is your only reason for not going mechanical, then your choosing valves for wrong reasons. Each successive surgery, sometimes even your first, takes more and more away from you physically. Your body will begin to break down and things will begin to start showing up as commorbidities sooner or later. There again, going mechanical or tissue or anything, guarantees nothing as far as more surgeries. It simply cuts the numbers significantly with the mechanical and ACT.
