The ATS 3f equine bioprosthetic valve. Anyone know about it?

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I'm totally interested, Brian.

This is a promising valve, if somewhat limited in application. I fit into the group who could potentially use it. I intend to watch its progress carefully.

Thank you,
 
When I hear from him I will pass along any information gleaned from our conversation. I'm not sure when he will call, only that he said he would when he gets back from his trip to Asia.

:)
 
Bryan - I would be most interested too in what Dr. Cox had to say to you about the ATS 3f. I don't really know of his reputation as you seem to. Good for you for taking the initiative to speak with him. Never even occurred to me.

I also appreciate the opinions everyone has posted regarding this. Good point made earlier about finding out why the surgeon recommended this valve choice - does he get some benefit from my choosing it?

Since they still don't seem to know if my valve is bi-cuspid or not, I may or may not be a candidate for this one The good news is that I am in the waiting room for awhile still (who knows how long awhile) so maybe by the time I actually have to make a choice, more will be known about how the studies for this valve go.

I am a firm believer in keeping things simple, so if this valve is a good choice for me - I would consider it. From all accounts with surgeons and cardio, I have no underlying connective tissue disorders (at least not yet - seems like these are known to surface soemtimes after AVR though.) As pointed out by another poster - someone does have to go first. :)

Lots more to learn and to think about - but I have time.

Rhena
 
Al is referring to the lack of conscientious cynicism in this thread. Generally, a valve this new gets a good hazing when someone brings it up. After all, this valve has no proven track record for longevity at all, including in clinical trials.

Six years is a very, very short test span for a valve without a functionally similar predecessor. I'm not certain what the requirements are for FDA approval, but, unless I am missing something, this is really abbreviated. The first implants for the valve's trials were at the end of 2001, and was eventually 400 patients. The results were apparently accepted based on patient-hours, rather than linear time.

Then again, if the FDA lets things in too quickly, they're accused of not testing them enough for patient safety, and if they delay submissions for more testing, they're accused of keeping wonderful, new, lifesaving products off the market, to the detriment of the patients. Can't win that one.

This valve is really a set of replacement leaflets, rather than a whole new structure, which is what allows it to take up less space. As of yet, I am leery of the claims, unless I am misunderstanding them. Apparently they remove the leaflets from the old valve, then place this into the annulus, in the shadow of the original cusp-retaining tissue. This leads to the statement that the patient doesn't lose any effective valve area. Their press release indicates a 0 mmHg (yes, zero) or 2 mmHg gradient in some cases. However, their official, FDA-approved gradient chart shows:

Size Mean Gradient
19 mm 3.10
21 mm 5.87
23 mm 5.89
25 mm 5.96
27 mm 4.00
29 mm 3.77

...lower than other valves, but not zero, or even 2.

But there are three suture patches that go in "downriver," and it's hard to see that they would not affect bloodflow or turbulence. The statement is that there is no stent, but those basically serve the function of the stent, and have palpable thickness and presence away from the base of the valve. How can they not interfere at all?

It seems likely that they do. In looking at the design, there should be a tug at the three "downriver" commissure pads sewn to the aortic wall with every cycle. My guess is that the restriction on bicuspid valves is aimed at the connective tissue disorders (that only sometimes go with it). The three points of tugging would be likely places for unintended detachment in an individual with developing myxomatous tissue problems, and might even foment the start of an aneurysm for some who have that proclivity. There also might be concern with the "single line of sutures" securing the base tearing away from weakened tissue in some congenital cases.

The fact that it's tubular is not new. The Toronto stentless porcine valve is tubular, as is the root-included Hancock and the Freestyle. It doesn't require replacing a section of aorta, though.

They do warn and disclaim about calcification. They currently show 99.7% freedom from structural failure after 60 months, but that is close to typical for 3rd generation tissue valves. They don't highlight (obviously) other points of failure.

We won't know for about 14 years how these stack up for longevity. They could be great. They might start failing next week or next year. At this point, I'd consider them experimental, personally. But a very interesting future possibility for non-bicuspid patients.

Best wishes,

Bob -

Those Gradient Numbers seem suspicious. The usual trend would be for the gradient to drop as the Effective Area increases. The 21, 23, and 25 mm gradients show a slight increase. The BIG Question is how the Smallest Valve (19mm) could have the Lowest Gradient. That doesn't compute.

I consulted with my 'industry contact' who forwarded a copy of the
"Instructions for use ATS 3f Aortic Prosthesis, Model 1000".

This document notes Valve Sizes of 21, 23, 25, 27, 29 mm but NO 19 mm valve. Table 7 lists hemodynamic performance at Discharge, 3-4 months, 1, 2, 3, 4 years.

Size Mean Gradient
----- at Discharge
mm - mmHg

21 - 16.2
23 - 15.8
25 - 12.5
27 - 10.4
29 - 7.7

Note the expected decreasing gradient vs. valve size
and the considerably higher numbers than from your source
which makes me wonder, Where did you find your numbers?

'AL Capshaw'
 
I do not think I would go for a recently developed valve. If I was under 65, I would opt for a valve that has been around long enough and would last at least 20 years.

Meant to ask where one could find this valve that could last at least 20 years - assuming you meant tissue. There is no valve out there - even mechanical where you have any guarantees as to longevity or lack of defects, maybe all you really have are the odds. Could be that years from now the ATS 3f valve might be that one that has the best odds of lasting 20 years or even more and I could be one of the patients proving it. You just never know do you?!:)

Rhena
 
Quite commonly BAV is associated with enlarged aortic root, decending aorta and transverse arch. This may preclude use of this valve. You could ask Dr. Cox. You have an enlarged root. The rest of your aorta should be studied by CAT scan with contrast if it hasn't been. I ended up getting the a large part (root, ascending, arch) fixed at once. Some surgeons "wait and watch" aortas below 5cm, although many now fix them with the AVR below that number as it adds only very slightly to the operative risk verusus two operations and potentially doing the aorta under risker emergent conditions. Some surgeons witll implant a tissue valve and save the aorta repair for the re-op. You have lot to sort through with your surgeon, but it appears you have some time to do do.

FYI: Here's an abstract of an article by my surgeon about the aortopathy of BAV and how he handles it.
http://jtcs.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/...d&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=10&resourcetype=HWFIG
 
Quite commonly BAV is associated with enlarged aortic root, decending aorta and transverse arch. This may preclude use of this valve. You could ask Dr. Cox. You have an enlarged root. The rest of your aorta should be studied by CAT scan with contrast if it hasn't been. I ended up getting the a large part (root, ascending, arch) fixed at once. Some surgeons "wait and watch" aortas below 5cm, although many now fix them with the AVR below that number as it adds only very slightly to the operative risk verusus two operations and potentially doing the aorta under risker emergent conditions. Some surgeons witll implant a tissue valve and save the aorta repair for the re-op. You have lot to sort through with your surgeon, but it appears you have some time to do do.

FYI: Here's an abstract of an article by my surgeon about the aortopathy of BAV and how he handles it.
http://jtcs.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/...d&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=10&resourcetype=HWFIG

Most people that I know of that post that got a tissue valve and needed a graft got it at the same time,just like poeple with the ON-x ect, the only surgeon I can remember reading about saying if you didn't get one of the all in one and needed a separate graft for the aorta they will probably not do the aorta and leave it for a re op is your post. I was quite surprised to read that, since it is VERY routine to take care of it all at once and spend the extra 5 min sewing a graft on. I know of people who had a replacement or Ross and later need an annuerism repair, but they were new problems that happened after the first surgery.
 
Sorry I wasn't able to post sooner but Dr. Cox just called me yesterday morning. Unfortunately I was sleeping so although I talked to him for about 20 minutes I didn't remember to ask him some of the more general questions about the design of the valve. Here is what I did learn from him.

The ATS 3f equine valve was approved by the FDA just over a year ago for use in the United States (late October).

About 1000 3f valves have been implanted in the US since it was approved.

Because of the design, at this time patients with structural issues with their valve beyond leaflet damage (more specifically aortic root dilation or aneurysm) are not candidates for this valve at the current time. Their is one caveat. Dr. Allan Stewart at Columbia University Medical Center who has taken a keen interest in the 3f valve and has also developed a surgery in which he sews the 3f valve into the ascending aorta dacron sleeve before the surgery and is able to use this valve to replace damaged valves along with the aortic root and ascending aorta. Like I said I'm trying to remember what he said but don't quote me on any of this stuff. He seemed to think that it would just be a matter of time before the learning curve allows other surgeons to use this technique with great success. Again I'm not sure if I heard this right, but in many cases Dr. Stewart felt like the procedure he does may yield better results in the long run than a valve sparing procedure...especially in someone like me who already has an autograft and not a native aortic valve. He also said unless I had Dr. Stewart perform this surgery my best alternative would be for Dr. Jaggers to try the valve sparing "David" procedure (which is what he plans to do pending the results of my next echo). I told him that I thought it was about time for Dr. Jaggers to learn this procedure and he agreed as he was chuckling. I guess it's not something that you learn how to do overnight. But you know what...Dr. Jaggers does heart-lung transplants on small babies...I bet he's a fast learner. :D

In clinical trials they first tested on patients 60 years old and older. After extremely successful trials the FDA asked them to run trials on 40-50 year old patients. Dr. Cox was not willing to do this but did agree to do clinical trials on patients in the 50-60 year old age group. His reasoning was that most patients under 50 years old would more than likely require another surgery, and the purpose of this valve is to extend the age at which a tissue valve is a viable option to last the rest of your life.

If anyone is interested in why equine he said that the material used to manufacture the tissue valve is not as important as how the valve is designed. I think he said something about being impressed by the durability of using pericardium tissue...again don't quote me on that.

Here are a couple of links. The first one announces FDA approval of the valve and goes into some detail on how it functions. The second link is the profile of Dr. Allan Stewart at Columbia.

I hope this helps to answer some questions about the valve. Dr. Cox was a very nice man and I really appreciated him taking time out of his busy schedule to speak with me over the phone. The delay in him calling me was due to a nasty virus he brought home from a business trip to Asia. By the time he was feeling better the rest of his family got it too.

Bryan

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...l-of-the-ATS-3f-Aortic-Bioprosthesis-28277-1/

http://columbiadoctors.photobooks.c...01&gender=M&department=5760000&pict_id=401226
 
I forgot to mention one more thing. Since I was 43 at the time of my surgery Dr. Cox asked why they didn't recommend a mechanical valve for me. I told him that they did and then I explained my disease process (aortic insufficiency which was caused by aortic valve prolapse, which was caused by an unrepaired VSD; then more damage to my aortic valve leaflets caused by infective endocarditis). In other words the disease to my aortic valve was secondary to my VSD with no other issues. I was also looking for the best bet to avoid endocarditis in the future and an aortic homograft valve or a Ross Procedure were the two procedures that kept coming up. He was impressed that I had done research on my own and I gave a lot of the credit to finding VR.com before my surgery. I also asked him what he thought about the Onyx valve (mind you he works for ATS) and he said that his (I think) brother-in-law works for Onyx. I think he meant that he thought it was a good valve but again don't quote me on that. I don't recall him recommending the Onyx but he didn't discourage me from using it either if I chose a mechanical valve as a back up to the "David" procedure. Like I said he works for ATS...not really a fair question to ask of him but I did anyway. :D
 
I thank you too - very much!!! :D How cool is it that you were able to talk to him? I had no idea Dr.'s with that reputation could be so approachable. You have an interesting case for sure.

This new valve could very well be a viable option for me and maybe I am naive, but it seems to me that they wouldn't speed up trials so quickly if it weren't very promising. Again, I still don't know if I have BAVD or not. I wish I knew, because that seems rather important for many, many reasons not the least of which is whether I could be a candidate for the ATS 3f. The heart cath I'm told showed no evidence of any issues with my aortic root or other connective tissue disorders. Dr. Oswalt, the surgeon who suggested this valve as a possibility said he thought he saw 3 leaflets, but couldn't be sure. I'm in the age range at 56 and not sure how many years away from surgery. I'm guessing at minimum a year and probably much longer. (AVA 1.0 cm2 to 1.2 depending on who you believe.)

Does anyone think it is important to know if BAVD or not before going in? I have no kids, but nieces and siblings in case they should be checked. As much as I hate tests (and costs) - is there a test that could be more accurate than an echo or heart cath in showing this? A TEE, a cardiac MRI? Should I ask for it or should I be careful what I ask for?? Maybe a topic for another post - but now I've tossed it out there.

My PCP told me Dr.Oswalt was the first surgeon to do a heart transplant in Austin... that is kind of cool.:cool: Of course I'm just in the market for a new valve thank you very much. :) He is one of a handful of the 'valve guys' in town. Still not sure I'll pick him even... I'm making no final decisions till I have to. Just biding my time, soaking up info and weighing my options.

Thanks again Bryan for sharing. Keep us posted on anything else you find out.

Rhena
 
. . . Some surgeons witll implant a tissue valve and save the aorta repair for the re-op . . .

My post isn't really on the thread topic but the [above] statement caught my eye.

I would not want anyone to make a medical decision based on my experience. But I believe that part of the reasoning behind this paraphrased statement can be related to the definition of enlargement, which definition, from my experience, can vary between expert surgeons.

One surgeon told me my aorta also needed replaced, and he was a bicuspid expert who insisted I get a mechanical; his definition of enlargement went beyond other's. One surgeon said he could address the aorta if necessary and I could have whatever valve I wanted; he had also operated on the state's most famous valve recipient. Another surgeon said he could also address the aorta if necessary but that it might also be something that could be addressed during the next valve replacement, if necessary, because he would give me a tissue valve as I wanted.

In my situation, whatever enlargement that was seen prior to my bicuspid replacement is evidently no longer a factor. Another point was that my bicuspid was malfunctioning so greatly that my mitral valve was also struggling and appearing that it might need work or replacement as well. My surgeon did a TEE while I was still under, after he replaced that deteriorated bicuspid valve, and the mitral was working much better so additional surgery on the mitral wasn't necessary either. To complete this history, pathology did show my aortic tissue to be a "little thin."
 
. . . Does anyone think it is important to know if BAVD or not before going in? I have no kids, but nieces and siblings in case they should be checked. As much as I hate tests (and costs) - is there a test that could be more accurate than an echo or heart cath in showing this? A TEE, a cardiac MRI? Should I ask for it or should I be careful what I ask for?? Maybe a topic for another post - but now I've tossed it out there . . .
The cath should have shown a bicuspid. But someone also mentioned a contrasting scan.
Keep copies of all of your test results.
Thanks for starting this interesting thread. Best wishes :) .
 
Thanks Lily. Believe it or not the cath was not definitive for BAV. I posted a thread awhile back to find out if others had experienced a situation where they didn't know. Seems I'm not the only one, whose Dr.'s could not tell until they got in there, or maybe didn't even think to ask at the time and read about it later in their surgical reports.

I do have hard copy of my reports, but nothing electronic. Maybe I should consider that too.

Rhena
 
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