Running Races with Ascending Aortic Aneurism

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Ultrarunner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
63
Location
Vancouver, BC
Having been recently diagnosed with an aneurism of the ascending aorta, I thought it might be a good idea to find a forum where one could exchange information and experience about this condition. I’ve been having a hard time getting advice from the doctors I’ve seen.

I was diagnosed with BAV in my 30’s after my GP detected a murmur. I had a follow up echocardiogram done about every five years. At age 40 I took up running and ran lots of marathons and ultra marathons. As long as I could do a 40 minute 10k race in my 50’s I didn’t really think of BAV as a problem. However, in the last few years I’ve been doing some very challenging trail races and decided that maybe I should see a cardiologist. I asked for a referral to a sports cardiologist and a year later met with him (this is Canada-the medical system requires patience!). It turns out that my echo results from last year had shown a dilated ascending aorta and my GP hadn’t noticed. (I know now to always get a copy of the results!). Another echo was ordered, as well as a CT scan that confirmed an aortic diameter of 48mm. I obtained the results of my previous echo’s and discovered it was 40mm seven years ago. So a growth rate of about 1 mm per year.

With current standards recommending aorta replacement at 55mm (without family history of dissection), I assume life goes on as before. I was told not to lift weights, do pushups etc. but told I could keep on running. I don’t want to give that up because I like having a BP of 100 over 60 and a resting heart rate of less than 40. The question is, what kind of running is safe? My cardiologist couldn’t say. These past two years, I’ve done about 20 races and over 100 training runs where my heart rate would be in the 170’s or higher. During my stress test, my systolic pressure was 160 when my heart rate was 160. So I assume my systolic pressure would be somewhat higher than that during a race, especially when it involves a few thousand feet of elevation gain.

So my question is: Has anyone been given an upper limit of blood pressure that might cause dissection? Or been told whether running fast is ok?
 
I'm somewhat an ex runner, just jogging now to keep my weight down. In my younger days I ran a ton of races before finding out later about my heart. I had the same operation that you will need. When I was running a few marathons a year and a few half marathons my easy aerobic pace (pace where you can talk comfortably) for say a 22 mile long training run was 7:30 per mile. Thats all I would recommend that you run now, your easy aerobic training pace (somewhere between one and a half to two minutes slower than racing pace) until after your operation. Forego the intervals, speed training, long runs (20+miles), and hill training. The easy pace will keep you in peak condition until after the operation and make recovery faster. You don't want to end up like John Ritter. It seems like a million years ago that i would run a 5k under 17 min, half under 1:25:00, marathon under 3 hrs. Now a 12 min. mile pace jog is hard. :)

I had a 5.7 cm aneurism for a year and a half before surgery and every cardiologist I saw said it could burst anytime. So I sure wouldn't run hard or easy, I was a walking timebomb. And sure enough my surgeon told me after surgery that it was a good thing we got it when we did, he said it had stretch marks on it. There have been plenty of so called healthy marathoners fall out on the race and die due to underlying heart disease. But it's your life, do as you please...
 
I certainly wasn't of your caliber (my one and only marathon was 2004!) but I was a runner. My surgeon said I could still run prior to surgery, but not at an intense pace.
 
When I was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm one of the first things I researched was exercising with an aortic aneurysm. The bottom line is that intense exercise of any kind, even aerobic may carry some risks for those with aneurysms, though low level aerobic exercise is recommended. What is intense for some may not be so intense for you, but I have to think that racing, a marathon, or an ultra marathon would be considered intense for anyone. I've seen less restrictions for some with a small aneurysm (less than 4.5cm), but 4.8 is not small. Aneurysms can dissect even below 5cm (see figure 13 in this article: http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1140497).

I posted my findings in a thread with links to some of the research, here: http://www.valvereplacement.org/for...2576-exercise-and-stress-with-aortic-aneurysm
FWIW, I also started a thread on exercising after having an aneurysm repaired: http://www.valvereplacement.org/for...ilitation/42754-exercise-post-aneurysm-repair There seems to be less call for restrictions after aneurysm repair, but there may still be some risk and so some Dr's will still advise restrictions. Mine all did, but not as much as prior to surgery.

You may also be interested in a Pulitzer Prize winning series on running with an Aortic Aneurysm in the WSJ, here: http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2004-Explanatory-Reporting
The author wrote some excellent articles later as well, here's one: Older, Slower, Wiser. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730

I know now to always get a copy of the results!
Me too! 3 Dr's missed the mention of my dilated aorta in a report because they didn't read the whole thing, and I did (it was only 1 page!)

I don’t want to give that up because I like having a BP of 100 over 60 and a resting heart rate of less than 40.
I know how difficult a diagnosis this is to get, and I expect it is worse for you as an elite athlete. Just remember that the recommendations for restrictions are to help ensure that you continue to HAVE a BP and a heart rate.
 
W. Carter;n859683 said:
I'm somewhat an ex runner, just jogging now to keep my weight down. In my younger days I ran a ton of races before finding out later about my heart. I had the same operation that you will need. When I was running a few marathons a year and a few half marathons my easy aerobic pace (pace where you can talk comfortably) for say a 22 mile long training run was 7:30 per mile. Thats all I would recommend that you run now, your easy aerobic training pace (somewhere between one and a half to two minutes slower than racing pace) until after your operation. Forego the intervals, speed training, long runs (20+miles), and hill training. The easy pace will keep you in peak condition until after the operation and make recovery faster. You don't want to end up like John Ritter. It seems like a million years ago that i would run a 5k under 17 min, half under 1:25:00, marathon under 3 hrs. Now a 12 min. mile pace jog is hard. :)

You were a faster runner than me. The best I could do was a 1:27 half and 3:05 marathon in my late 40's. I did do some fast 50 milers and 100k races though. I decided a few weeks ago to stop any speed training or long runs. What was really keeping me fit lately was doing a local climb know as the "Grouse Grind". A steep trail with 2,800' of gain over a couple of kilometres. I've continued to do it, but in 40 minutes instead of 35. My cardiologist couldn't give me an answer as to whether or not this was ok. He said there hasn't been much research done on 55 year olds who run up mountains ;-)
 
AZ Don;n859697 said:
Just remember that the recommendations for restrictions are to help ensure that you continue to HAVE a BP and a heart rate.

Good quote! And thanks very much for all the links. I'll check them all as I want to learn all I can about this condition.
 
@ Ultrarunner The difference was I was in my 30's not 50's. I trained pretty hard one year in my mid 40's and ran the Dallas White Rock Marathon at 3:30:00 some odd, can't remember the exact time. So I know aging slows you quite a bit. Be careful running hills, you tax big muscles in your thighs which makes it a very hard effort and a hard strain on the ole ticker. Remember John Ritter keeled over and died rehearsing on set. :)
 
Yes, age is definitely slowing me down. I've been doing every run hard in the last couple of years to stay fast. I guess there were lots of opportunities for dissection! The last race I had planned is the Rock n Roll Half tomorrow. I think I'll do it, but maybe aim for 1:40 instead of 1:30 so my heart rate doesn't get too high. I'll probably never race again after this because I'm an all or nothing kind of guy.. This will be the first race where I haven't gone all out, so it will seem strange.
 
AZ Don;n859697 said:
When I was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm one of the first things I researched was exercising with an aortic aneurysm. The bottom line is that intense exercise of any kind, even aerobic may carry some risks for those with aneurysms, though low level aerobic exercise is recommended. What is intense for some may not be so intense for you, but I have to think that racing, a marathon, or an ultra marathon would be considered intense for anyone. I've seen less restrictions for some with a small aneurysm (less than 4.5cm), but 4.8 is not small. Aneurysms can dissect even below 5cm (see figure 13 in this article: http://content.onlinejacc.org/article.aspx?articleid=1140497).

I posted my findings in a thread with links to some of the research, here: http://www.valvereplacement.org/for...2576-exercise-and-stress-with-aortic-aneurysm
FWIW, I also started a thread on exercising after having an aneurysm repaired: http://www.valvereplacement.org/for...ilitation/42754-exercise-post-aneurysm-repair There seems to be less call for restrictions after aneurysm repair, but there may still be some risk and so some Dr's will still advise restrictions. Mine all did, but not as much as prior to surgery.

You may also be interested in a Pulitzer Prize winning series on running with an Aortic Aneurysm in the WSJ, here: http://www.pulitzer.org/works/2004-Explanatory-Reporting


The author wrote some excellent articles later as well, here's one: Older, Slower, Wiser. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204047504574384973660445730


Me too! 3 Dr's missed the mention of my dilated aorta in a report because they didn't read the whole thing, and I did (it was only 1 page!)


I know how difficult a diagnosis this is to get, and I expect it is worse for you as an elite athlete. Just remember that the recommendations for restrictions are to help ensure that you continue to HAVE a BP and a heart rate.

It does suck but I personally know 3 marathoners who had surgery and returned to running 2/3 had personal bests about 1/2 years softer surgery
 
I'll probably never race again after this because I'm an all or nothing kind of guy.. This will be the first race where I haven't gone all out, so it will seem strange.
I know the feeling. With time you can probably find a balance, rather than giving up something that you enjoy. Once you have your aneurysm repaired perhaps you can return to racing. This board is filled with stories of people that have returned to very high levels of activity post surgery.
 
Well that's encouraging. I have paid absolutely no attention to post surgery since I'm still processing the implications of life beforehand, and the surgery itself.
 
I tried to tell myself not to go to the max at this morning's half marathon, but I was probably less than a minutes slower than I otherwise would have been. 1:30:23. Enough for 2nd out of 147 in the 55-59 age group. So that's it. I won't do any racing until after surgery, whenever that might be. I proved to myself that I'm incapable of being in a race without racing!
 
Ultrarunner;n859753 said:
Well that's encouraging. I have paid absolutely no attention to post surgery since I'm still processing the implications of surgery itself.

Trust your surgeon, this sounds like a major surgery and it is, but the good ones have great stats as to outcomes and the state of the art techniques are well refined and successful. your chance of dying is very likely less than 1% and serious complications, less than 5%, not terrible odds at all though zero percent would be better.
 
Ultrarunner;n859681 said:
Having been recently diagnosed with an aneurism of the ascending aorta, I thought it might be a good idea to find a forum where one could exchange information and experience about this condition. I’ve been having a hard time getting advice from the doctors I’ve seen.

I was diagnosed with BAV in my 30’s after my GP detected a murmur. I had a follow up echocardiogram done about every five years. At age 40 I took up running and ran lots of marathons and ultra marathons. As long as I could do a 40 minute 10k race in my 50’s I didn’t really think of BAV as a problem. However, in the last few years I’ve been doing some very challenging trail races and decided that maybe I should see a cardiologist. I asked for a referral to a sports cardiologist and a year later met with him (this is Canada-the medical system requires patience!). It turns out that my echo results from last year had shown a dilated ascending aorta and my GP hadn’t noticed. (I know now to always get a copy of the results!). Another echo was ordered, as well as a CT scan that confirmed an aortic diameter of 48mm. I obtained the results of my previous echo’s and discovered it was 40mm seven years ago. So a growth rate of about 1 mm per year.

With current standards recommending aorta replacement at 55mm (without family history of dissection), I assume life goes on as before. I was told not to lift weights, do pushups etc. but told I could keep on running. I don’t want to give that up because I like having a BP of 100 over 60 and a resting heart rate of less than 40. The question is, what kind of running is safe? My cardiologist couldn’t say. These past two years, I’ve done about 20 races and over 100 training runs where my heart rate would be in the 170’s or higher. During my stress test, my systolic pressure was 160 when my heart rate was 160. So I assume my systolic pressure would be somewhat higher than that during a race, especially when it involves a few thousand feet of elevation gain.

So my question is: Has anyone been given an upper limit of blood pressure that might cause dissection? Or been told whether running fast is ok?

I haven't been told the upper limits but can told you I was at the ER with my 4.9 aneurysm and it held at 188/100 which was off the charts for me. They started some serious I V meds and it came down and I got to spend a weekend in hospital. Such fun!!!
 
ALLBETTERNOW!;n859826 said:
Trust your surgeon, this sounds like a major surgery and it is, but the good ones have great stats as to outcomes and the state of the art techniques are well refined and successful. your chance of dying is very likely less than 1% and serious complications, less than 5%, not terrible odds at all though zero percent would be better.

Yes, it will be good to actually talk to a surgeon. Soon I hope. So far it's only been a sports cardiologist and he was reluctant to give me specific advice. When I asked questions about when I should get the aorta replaced he decided to refer me to a surgeon and let him give me the advice.
 
Ultrarunner;n859859 said:
Yes, it will be good to actually talk to a surgeon. Soon I hope. So far it's only been a sports cardiologist and he was reluctant to give me specific advice. When I asked questions about when I should get the aorta replaced he decided to refer me to a surgeon and let him give me the advice.

Since he or she is going to be elbows deep in your chest, trust them! They may lean towards fixing everything they can while they are in there. They actually sell the valve and Dacron sleeve as one unit if need be.
 
I thought not racing anymore would keep me safe, but even training runs might be a problem. This morning I wore my heart rate strap and went for a run. The first kilometer wasn't bad, but the second and third averaged 180 beats per minute before settling down. I'm guessing this isn't advisable for someone with an aneurysm!
 
Hi

When they found my aneurysm it was pressure exerted on the blood vessels that was the concern. I had about 4 months wait between discovery and surgery.

Ultrarunner;n860011 said:
The first kilometer wasn't bad, but the second and third averaged 180 beats per minute before settling down. I'm guessing this isn't advisable for someone with an aneurysm!

Perhaps that indicates you are training high? When I go running I try to keep it at 145. A fellow I know in Finland is an ultra fit biathalete and when my HR is 140 his is 90.

The training bands are a good idea, they let you know how hard you really are training , because out perceptions can be wrong.

Ask yr surgeon how hed feel about jogging with a HR of under 150. It may be less than you have become used to but better than stopping right? Alsl for training that sounds like almost over training to me. How old are you, 55 right? This is just a guide, but
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...eart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp#mainContent

It suggests your training at your max HR.
 
Your maximum hr should be 220-age. So your maximum hr should be 165 bpm. That is what is referred to as being anaerobic. You should have trouble talking or carrying on a conversation with a running partner at this pace. Your aerobic running hr should be around 107-123 bpm. You should be able to carry on a conversation with a running partner and not get out of breath. 80% of a healthy persons training miles every week should be at this easy pace. Anything faster than this pace there is really no gain in fitness and the chances of injury get higher. 20% of your weekly mileage should be anaerobic (speed training, hill training, racing) to build and maintain fast twitch muscles. But with your heart disease all of your weekly mileage should be between 107-123 bpm until you get it fixed.
 
Back
Top