Recreational and Pharmaceutical Drugs and BAV/Stenosis

[fanciance]

Who else is struggling with the need to alter his/her mind in some way, shape, or form and the conflicting knowledge that it could be putting him/her at some type of risk? I know I am not alone on this, yet I have yet to see a good thread with detailed experiences here or anywhere online. I know it will be extremely useful to have an online source of anecdotal information on this matter. I have BAV Stenosis and am in my early 20's.

Substances:
1. Caffeine
2. Alcohol
3. Nicotine
4. Marijuana
5. etc.

This post doesn't by any means encourage recreational drug use.

 

[skeptic49]

With heart problems and age, caffeine is something I've avoided. I enjoy my daily alcoholic drinks (I usually have a couple,) and I do not plan to give them up...ever. I quit smoking a long time ago and I don't regret that for a minute. It's very self-destructive IMHO. Weed should be legalized. I don't do it anymore because I just don't like to take anything into my lungs, but I think it's pretty harmless for most people and it has it's medical uses. No hard drugs for me.

 

[Paleowoman]

I have tea several times a day (hey I'm a Brit) and fresh coffee once a day and red wine with supper - one unit. I've not changed this ever. When I had OHS I had lots of cups of tea. Best cuppa was in ICU ! When I couldn't eat well post surgery my endo recommended a glass of wine…I'm not kidding ! I actually didn't feel like wine post surgery but I knew things weren't so bad when about a month post op I started to enjoy a glass of wine with supper. I've never had recreational drugs, apart from said caffeine in tea and coffee and alcohol in wine, and cigarettes (nicotine) for a few years in my twenties - gave up when I got pregnant with my son. When I was anxious pre surgery I was prescribed lorazepam, but I didn't 'abuse' that - too many side effects.

 

[ottagal]

One known risk factor in aortic valve disease (that has been proven to assist in its progression) is cigarette smoking. I recall many years ago, my cardiologist mentioning this as a risk factor. Thankfully, I was a non smoker. I do have friends who are smokers and know how very difficult this addiction/habit is to break'.

The following article states that current cigarette smoking increases the risk of aortic stenosis by 35%. http://www.inmo.ie/tempDocs/cardiology_may07.pdf

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Ottagal - that link doesn't work, but smoking is well known to be one of the biggest causes of heart disease. I'm not sure that it would increase the stenosis due to BAV though as stenosis due to that is due to the turbulent blood flow through the bicuspid valve. My mother, who didn't have BAV, died of a heart attack which was brought on by coronary atherosclerosis due to plaque in her ateries and heaven knows where else - she'd been told by her cardiologist to give up smoking as it was causing this damage. She didn't listen - she said "doctors make too much fuss". She smoked for just over 50 years and died suddenly of heart attack a few days after her 72nd birthday.

 

[Cooker]

This has been bounced around from time to time. I started a thread years ago about pot smoking and as you can expect the responses ran the gamut. I am a one that believes moderation is the key in most things. Cigs IMHO are out and really have no value. I was a smoker, toker and drinker for many years and now abstain from it all. I will not give up caffeine and I do overindulge with sweets. Everything is is choice. Make choices you can live with. Life is short at best and should be enjoyed...... peace

 

[Jkm7]

I don't mean to sound the least judgmental but I do wonder why anyone would go through all we have to endure to have our heart/valve issues surgicalyl corrected and then smoke? For some, heart surgery is a very hard journey.

Why bother to go through the surgery? Millions of people have quit and if open heart surgery isn't incentive enough, then why not just continue to smoke and skip the surgery entirely? I mean this as a legitimate question and not to pounce on anyone.

 

[tom in MO]

Your BAV may or may not need replacement before you die of something else. Per my cardio and surgeon, there is not much you can do to stop it or slow the process. However, overall good heart healthy habits and exercise will help you not die of a heart attack if you don't see the end game symptoms soon enough. It will also keep your heart fit as it tries to pump through the difficulties your deteriorating BAV presents it.

Drugs, recreational or not, were never contraindicated for me due to my BAV. Exercises where you hold your breath, such as isometric exercises were not recommended.

If your yearly echos says you are getting worse, I would guess it'd be best not to stress the heart with things like methamphetamine, cocaine and binge drinking leading to unconsciousness. : )

 

[tom in MO]

I don't mean to sound the least judgmental but I do wonder why anyone would go through all we have to endure to have our heart/valve issues surgicalyl corrected and then smoke? For some, heart surgery is a very hard journey.

Why bother to go through the surgery? Millions of people have quit and if open heart surgery isn't incentive enough, then why not just continue to smoke and skip the surgery entirely? I mean this as a legitimate question and not to pounce on anyone.

You obviously are not a smoker. As my surgeon's nurse told me, a long-time smoker per her voice, "I smoked for years and have quit for 10. If they gave me 6 months to live the first thing I'd do is go out and by a pack of cigarettes." You do kind of sound judgemental. I guess you exercise, are at your proper BMI and are completely up on all necessary nutrients, micronutrients, elements and minerals one must consume to live forever...We all die, most smokers die from something other than smoking.

 

[ottagal]

Hi Ottagal - that link doesn't work, but smoking is well known to be one of the biggest causes of heart disease. I'm not sure that it would increase the stenosis due to BAV though as stenosis due to that is due to the turbulent blood flow through the bicuspid valve. .

Paleogirl,
Sorry about the link not working. Ok...here is another link and again this study confirms that smoking is a risk factor in the progression of aortic stenosis (I presume whether it is a bicuspid valve or not).

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/101/21/2497.full
Conclusions—Absolute and percentage reduction in AVA per year in those with AS is greater in those with milder degrees of stenosis and is acceleratedin the presence of smoking, hypercholesterolemia, and elevated serum creatinine and calcium levels. These findings may have important implications in gaining further insights into the mechanism of AS progression and in formulating strategies to ****** this process.

Another link:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aortic-stenosis/basics/risk-factors/con-20026329.
Mayo clinic also suggests that smoking is a risk factor for aortic valve stenosis as it is with other cardiovascular diseases.

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Ottagal - thanks for the link and the quote. To my reading stenosis is acceleratedi in the presence of smoking, hypercholesterolemia, and elevated serum creatinine and calcium levels, but obviously not in everyone. if a person has BAV we know from other studies that not smoking and having low cholesterol levels etc don't slow down the rate of stenosis. Babies with BAV can have stenosis. As Tom wrote, there's nothing you can do to slow down the stenosis in BAV, so conversely being 'bad' won't necessarily acclerate it. My mother smoked for 50 years and had a heart attack but my grandfather smoked for 70 years and died of a very old age ! That doesn't mean smoking is okay. I'm being devil's avocate here I think.

 

[Agian]

Dude, did someone say something about Marijuana?.... What was the question again? Whoa!

 

[ottagal]

Hi Ottagal - thanks for the link and the quote. To my reading stenosis is acceleratedi in the presence of smoking, hypercholesterolemia, and elevated serum creatinine and calcium levels, but obviously not in everyone. if a person has BAV we know from other studies that not smoking and having low cholesterol levels etc don't slow down the rate of stenosis. Babies with BAV can have stenosis. As Tom wrote, there's nothing you can do to slow down the stenosis in BAV, so conversely being 'bad' won't necessarily acclerate it. My mother smoked for 50 years and had a heart attack but my grandfather smoked for 70 years and died of a very old age ! That doesn't mean smoking is okay. I'm being devil's avocate here I think.

Hi Paleogirl,
You are re-iterating exactly what I said in my first post: The cardiologist told me that smoking was a risk factor (not the only one) in the progression of aortic stenosis. and never stated that smoking 'caused' stenosis.

Risk factor is exactly that. It means that it may increase your risk, but then again it may not. For example, research has confirmed that smoking is a risk factor in developing lung cancer; however, we all know individuals who smoked all their lives and never developed lung cancer. As with cancer, and other diseases, aortic stenosis in bicuspid aortic valve disease is complex and multifactorial with many unknowns.

My only point was that if something is considered a risk factor in the progression of aortic stenosis(as stated in Mayo Clinic's site), why not eliminate that one risk factor (such as smoking) if evidence shows it "may" accelerate stenosis.

I'm not sure what your point was, but perhaps it was to play devil's advocate! (smile)

 

[Jkm7]

You obviously are not a smoker. As my surgeon's nurse told me, a long-time smoker per her voice, "I smoked for years and have quit for 10. If they gave me 6 months to live the first thing I'd do is go out and by a pack of cigarettes." You do kind of sound judgemental. I guess you exercise, are at your proper BMI and are completely up on all necessary nutrients, micronutrients, elements and minerals one must consume to live forever...We all die, most smokers die from something other than smoking.

You are right that I don't smoke but you are wrong that I am the perfect specimen of healthy living.
I think my point is pretty clear. Do what you wish, of course, but my question was a legitimate one. Millions of people around the world
have successfully quit so it is possible.
Many of the top surgeons refuse to operate on people who cannot/will not give up cigarettes and that is not just heart surgery.
Good luck. I truly wish you the best.

 

[Paleowoman]

I'm not sure what your point was, but perhaps it was to play devil's advocate! (smile)

I'm just being devil's advocate.
A couple of years ago on here we had a lot of discussion about what we could do to halt or delay the stenosis in BAV and hence need for surgery. I was taking vitamin K2 which I'd read could reverse stenosis. Did it ? I thought it was for a while but no, my valve needed replacing just around the time the cardiologist had forecast it would need replacing some years ago. That's not to say we should not live as healthily as possible and do our best for our heart health. I still take vitamin K2 - it puts calcium where it should go, in the bones and not in the arteries - and I do loads of exercise and eat well, I eat very low carb which is also vascular protective as well as all sorts protective, and I don't smoke !

But my point is, we don't seem to be able to change the way stenosis develops in BAV. Now I've got a replacement valve that will eventually become stenotic - if I were a young person it would become stenotic faster - so how does youth increase stenosis in replacement aortic valves ?

 

[Agian]

 

[pellicle]

Dude, did someone say something about Marijuana?.... What was the question again? Whoa!

Labrador?!
Yeah man, the dog ate my stash ...

 

[Paleowoman]

OMG - I just found a photo of me taken when I was around four years old - late 1950's - I'm colouring in a colouring book and one of the pictures to colour in is of a cigarette resting on an ashtray with smoke rising from it, alongside a picture of a bus, a spade and a mouse !

No wonder people thought smoking was 'normal' back then ! I'm actually pretty astonished nonetheless !

Here's the photo of me in it being corrupted by cigarettes:

Oh, just thinking, there I was then with my BAV ticking inside me……….

 

[cldlhd]

My cardiologist says 3 cups of coffee a day is fine which is a good thing because I don't plan on giving it or the social drinking up anytime soon. Smoking is pretty much top of the list all the way around as for being bad for you but that's everybody's choice to make. As for vitamin K2 helping put calcium in the bones rather than the arteries how does being on warfarin and it's relation to vitamin K affect that process if at all? I know there are people on warfarin who take a regular vitamin K supplement and I assume that would mean they may have to take a higher dose of warfarin to offset the higher K levels but do they still get the benefit of "vitamin K putting the calcium where it belongs , in the bones not the arteries"? How about calcium channel blockers ? I know their supposed to lessen the amount of calcium that enters muscle tissue thereby weakening contraction but by doing that do they increase or decrease the likelihood of plaque in the arterial walls? How about the likelihood of calcium buildup on valves and increased stenosis? I would think less in the wall itself but maybe more on the valve because less calcium is getting in the tissue but what do I know?

 

[fanciance]

Thanks for all the reply's! I'll share my experience with different lifestyle choices:

Caffeine: Surprisingly, this is one of the worst for me. If I drink caffeine at anytime, terrible nighttime palpitations are inevitable. Good thing I have never had a problem with staying awake in the morning!

Alcohol: I have never had a heart related alcohol problem, even in high amounts. It does increase my heart rate a little for a short time after drinking, but I am sure this is completely harmless.

Nicotine: I think it is important that this one is discussed on here, because as some of you may have experienced, doctors, or anyone for that matter, will NEVER, in any situation, give the go-ahead on smoking. I know as well as all of you that cigarette smoking causes CHD as it adds plaque to the arteries, but I still wonder if it directly affects the closing rate of the valve (and if it does, does it close any faster with nicotine use than with exercise and other vasoconstrictors like caffeine?). If opponents of nicotine say that it closes the valve at a faster rate because it constricts blood vessels, increases blood pressure, and increases heart rate, then why do they not also oppose caffeine as it does the same? Other vasoconstrictors (substances that constrict blood vessels) are sodium, licorice, and ginger. My question is: are these just as bad for valve closing as nicotine? Is moderation truly the key? Is someone who eats a diet that is good for blood pressure, performs light exercise to decrease blood pressure, and smokes cigarettes better off than someone who eats a bad diet, lives a sedentary lifestyle, and refrains from smoking? I smoked for a period of time and never experienced negative heart effects that I am aware of. This is what lead me to these questions.

Marijuana: Many tense up at hearing the word because that is how society has conditioned us to fear it. The thought of a heart patient using marijuana is unthinkable in this society as it is an "illegal street drug". I strongly oppose these views and strongly believe that this substance will turn out to be much less harmful than anyone ever thought it was in years to come as it becomes legal. Message me if you would like to discuss experiences using marijuana with our heart condition. I would love to exchange experiences!

Exercise: Ever since I was very young, I had an obsession with weightlifting, running, and the martial arts. I think I was so obsessed because they were the things that I was always told I couldn't do. And from a young age, exercise was the thing that has provoked the most symptoms and bad experiences for me. My cycle looks like this: I develop a great workout/exercise/activity routine and follow it religiously for a period of time. At first, I see great results and feel great! But after a while, I start to experience symptoms during my exercise and throughout the days around it. I then stop and continue a sedentary lifestyle for a period of time. Eventually my heart feels great and I thirst to begin exercising again. The cycle repeats. It has been this way my whole life and I'm currently trying to find a way to exercise very very lightly without the crash that I described earlier. Any similar experiences?

PLEASE READ:

I am certainly not a doctor or scientist so know that everything I've written is from only my personal experience

I am well aware that as a heart patient, I technically shouldn't be using any type of substance because I should be trying to be the healthiest person I can be. But life is terribly short (especially for me with my condition) and I wan't to enjoy every day to it's fullest potential in the ways that I see fit. Please don't judge me. I want the sole purpose of this thread to be discussing experiences with substances and lifestyle choices.

Message me if you would like to talk about anything regarding our heart condition. I have a completely open mind to discuss anything and will certainly not judge you in any way!