Post-Surgery Anxiety

[Agian]

Pel, haven't seen the 'remakes' per se, but I've got the original series on DVD.

 

[workmonkey]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses - Despite the difficult topic, it's great to hear other stories and know that we are all in this together.

I think all of the explanations for what might ultimately cause post-surgery anxiety and stress are right. I did want to share one additional thought ...

One of the initial events that triggered my anxiety was a particular dream I had about six-months after surgery. In the dream, I kept waking up, but was unable to move and didn't know where I was. This happened three or four times in the dream, until I woke up "for real". However, for the next ten minutes, I didn't know if I was actually awake or still dreaming ... It was like my consciousness was unsure of what was what. This was extremely unsettling and disorienting, and in less-eloquent terms, freaked me the hell out. After this experience, for the next few months I would be nervous to go to sleep, and would have some odd “dream-like” states during the day that may-or-may not have been related to beta-blockers and/or anxiety.

It seems to me that this was my sub-conscious trying to process the period of time immediately upon waking up from the surgery. My wife tells me that I was talking, fighting with nurses, etc, but of course I remember none of this. Obviously, some part of my brain was registering it. I think part of the stress is trying to bridge the gap between the hours you were knocked-out. Your body and mind are obviously experiencing fear, but you are unable to process because of the amnesiac drugs, so it gets trapped there until you can acknowledge it and let it out. Which, again, is why writing, talking, therapy, reading, etc is just as important after surgery as before.

In any event, the whole experience has helped me come to healthier habits regarding stress in general, so I see this as a net positive. I certainly had stress before the surgery, so can’t blame that only. The important part to remember is that on its own, stress and anxiety aren’t dangerous - As long as we are physically healthy, we can learn to alleviate the stress with our minds.

 

[workmonkey]

Hi Tjay,
Thanks for the kind words ... You bring up an interesting question I've actually thought a lot about.

The new guidelines for treatment of aneurysms were released literally days before my surgery. At the time, my ascending aorta was at 5.1 mm, which crossed the traditional limit of 5.0 mm. If I had been examined this year, I wonder if they would have waited? My bicuspid valve was in good working order, so the aneurysm was the primary reason I was told I needed immediate surgery.

Ultimately, I decided it wouldn't have mattered (for me). Aneurysms almost-always grow, so I would have just been putting off my surgery a few years. And both my cardiologist and surgeon made good points: you'll only get older, and every year your body will be less strong to deal with surgery. Particularly, my surgeon put it this way: "Get it over with, and get on with the rest of your life." He wasn't thinking of risks, but of benefits.

That said, I fully agree with you. While doctors are right to be concerned and cautious, it is important for others here to not freak out at the first diagnosis of an above-average aortic measurement. Even with bicuspid patients, the new guidelines put the risk factor at 5.5 mm. I believe they measured two dissections out of all of their patients, which was roughly the same as the public at large. It is a major surgery, so no need to rush into it by any means. The guidelines remind us, however, that each case is unique. In particular, they consider age, health, family history, etc to make their decision. In my case, I feel they still would have recommended surgery as I was younger and in good health, so they fully expected positive results. But I feel I could have calmly waited until 5.5 mm without any additional risk.

Regardling the sparing of the valve/root ... That happened to be my surgeon's speciality (Dr. Girardi at NY Presbyterian) ... Because my valve was still in good shape, his belief is there is no need to replace a good valve with a mechanical valve, especially at my age. I believe he said "I can't give you a valve as good as the one you were born with." (Which obviously isn't true if it had been calcified and narrowed, but I understood his point). He says that for healthy bi-cuspids, the results of valve-sparing surgery are on par with replacement. That said, you'll find a few members here who were told that and are having challenges now with their repaired valve ... I believe the guidelines say that repair should be considered, but only at centers that specialize in them.

Anyway, I'm glad you made the point because I see it here a lot: No need to panic when you get a diagnosis. As my cardiologist says, as long as you stay monitored, nothing bad will happen. Things rarely happen suddenly ... They'll have a handle on it as time moves on.

Best of luck.

 

[Paleowoman]

One of the initial events that triggered my anxiety was a particular dream I had about six-months after surgery. In the dream, I kept waking up, but was unable to move and didn't know where I was. This happened three or four times in the dream, until I woke up "for real". However, for the next ten minutes, I didn't know if I was actually awake or still dreaming ... It was like my consciousness was unsure of what was what. This was extremely unsettling and disorienting, and in less-eloquent terms, freaked me the hell out. After this experience, for the next few months I would be nervous to go to sleep, and would have some odd “dream-like” states during the day that may-or-may not have been related to beta-blockers and/or anxiety..

I've had a few dreams like that, but many years prior to surgery. They're horrible. I actually believed I had just woken up and was looking around the room from my bed, everything was real, but whenever I tried to move to get up I was unable to. Then I would think "I'm dreaming this" and then I would say "but now I really am awake", but again I could not move ! This would happen several times with me trying to wake up and move. When I finally did wake up I was quite anxious about the whole experience. I believe this is something that is also called "lucid dreaming". The reason you can't move in the lucid dream is that our bodies are paralysed, literally. When anyone enters the dream state of sleep, which is several times a night, their bodies become paralysed - this has to happen or otherwise we might act out our dreams (something which I believe does sometimes happen with disasterous results, like getting seriously hurt or hurting someone else).

Some people try to cultivate lucid dreaming so that they can then control their dreams and do things they'd really like to do, like flying or whatever. Here's an interesting article about it from the Guardian newspaper: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/27/mysteries-lucid-dreaming-brain-consciousness-research And here just look at the books available on Amazon about how to learn how to do it: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=stripbooks&field-keywords=lucid+dreaming

 

[epstns]

workmonkey - You just reminded me of something that took place in the months immediately following my valve surgery. Right after surgery, I was prescribed metoprolol at 100mg/day (time-release version). I began to have really lucid and "unusual" dreams. They were so clear, strange and lucid that I actually remember thinking, at bedtime, "I wonder what's playing tonight." Over the following years we have reduced my metoprolol dosage (now 25 mg/day), and the dreams stopped. If you are taking something like metoprolol (beta blocker), that could be part of the cause.

 

[Judy12205]

Oh, dear -- you mean I will likely have more anxiety after surgery than I do now? Oy! Actually, I have heard that anxiety and depression aren't unusual following open-heart surgery, and understanding the possibilities is, for me, helpful. Thanks for starting this discussion!

 

[epstns]

Judy - We really can't say that you will likely have more anxiety after surgery, but we have to say that it is possible. We all react differently to the experience, and those who have gone through it more than once sometimes react differently each time. You are correct, though, in concluding that understanding the possibilities is a good thing.

Best of luck to you, too.

 

[cldlhd]

Hi Tjay,
Thanks for the kind words ... You bring up an interesting question I've actually thought a lot about.

The new guidelines for treatment of aneurysms were released literally days before my surgery. At the time, my ascending aorta was at 5.1 mm, which crossed the traditional limit of 5.0 mm. If I had been examined this year, I wonder if they would have waited? My bicuspid valve was in good working order, so the aneurysm was the primary reason I was told I needed immediate surgery.

Ultimately, I decided it wouldn't have mattered (for me). Aneurysms almost-always grow, so I would have just been putting off my surgery a few years. And both my cardiologist and surgeon made good points: you'll only get older, and every year your body will be less strong to deal with surgery. Particularly, my surgeon put it this way: "Get it over with, and get on with the rest of your life." He wasn't thinking of risks, but of benefits.

That said, I fully agree with you. While doctors are right to be concerned and cautious, it is important for others here to not freak out at the first diagnosis of an above-average aortic measurement. Even with bicuspid patients, the new guidelines put the risk factor at 5.5 mm. I believe they measured two dissections out of all of their patients, which was roughly the same as the public at large. It is a major surgery, so no need to rush into it by any means. The guidelines remind us, however, that each case is unique. In particular, they consider age, health, family history, etc to make their decision. In my case, I feel they still would have recommended surgery as I was younger and in good health, so they fully expected positive results. But I feel I could have calmly waited until 5.5 mm without any additional risk.

Regardling the sparing of the valve/root ... That happened to be my surgeon's speciality (Dr. Girardi at NY Presbyterian) ... Because my valve was still in good shape, his belief is there is no need to replace a good valve with a mechanical valve, especially at my age. I believe he said "I can't give you a valve as good as the one you were born with." (Which obviously isn't true if it had been calcified and narrowed, but I understood his point). He says that for healthy bi-cuspids, the results of valve-sparing surgery are on par with replacement. That said, you'll find a few members here who were told that and are having challenges now with their repaired valve ... I believe the guidelines say that repair should be considered, but only at centers that specialize in them.

Anyway, I'm glad you made the point because I see it here a lot: No need to panic when you get a diagnosis. As my cardiologist says, as long as you stay monitored, nothing bad will happen. Things rarely happen suddenly ... They'll have a handle on it as time moves on.

Best of luck.

So the valve and the root were spared? I recently had my valve repaired,also in good shape and done by someone who specializes in it, and my root, ascending and hemi arch replaced. My measurements were 4.7cm root and 4.8 ascending.

 

[almost_hectic]

Ogh, wow... reading through this posting has stirred so many things inside and made me very emotional. Both good and bad or maybe I cant even decide... First of all its great to not feel so alone in the world, that there are others here who know its all too real and understand what Ive been through and dealing with. But that is sort of how I often feel at times now since surgery. All alone in the world, like nobody else could possibly understand. I know thats not true but sometimes thats how it feels. My surgery felt like a solo journey. Even though I was surrounded by all the people involved, it was just me. I had my parents throughout my hospital stay and I thank God for them, I could not have done it without them. But a few years back I moved and havent made many new friends since. So my good friends were far away and new friends seemed to drift away form me in my time of crisis. Even people who swore they wanted to come visit me as soon as I got home never called or showed up. I was very very alone.

The emotional experience of the trauma of surgery combined with the cocktail of anesthesia, pain killers and meds I wanted to believe were only temporary. I too was very emotional in the weeks after surgery, I would get very choked up and teary watching movies or TV shows. Its still that way now three months later but not as much on the surface, but something inside has definitely been tapped into. Much as others here have stated I feel like Im changed and my perspective is just different now. I think that Im okay with that mostly, as far as what that change might mean for myself Im still finding out, but I struggle with how to make the change meaningful and positive. So far I just feel stuck. The reality of returning to my normal life doesnt feel good. Going back to the rat race and not slowing down to enjoy life. A lot of that at the moment centers around returning to work. I work for someone who is a constant source of frustration and anxiety to everyone around her. She is perpetually stressed and infects others around her with that stress. It makes my job unrewarding and unnecessarily exhausting. Plus I now resent her for the lack of empathy she has shown me through my ordeal. No phone calls, not even a get well soon card, and recently she made an implied threat that she'd let me go if I couldnt return to work soon enough.

Im so grateful to have made it through all of this and want to make it all the more meaningful by finding strength and happiness in what I consider my new life post surgery. Im just struggling with how to do that, where to do that, who will do it with me and who will surround me in my new life. It all feels very overwhelming at times.

Oh and I too vote to make this a sticky! Minus a few of the unrelated posts to this thread to clean it up maybe

 

[MethodAir]

Ogh, wow... reading through this posting has stirred so many things inside and made me very emotional. Both good and bad or maybe I cant even decide... First of all its great to not feel so alone in the world, that there are others here who know its all too real and understand what Ive been through and dealing with. But that is sort of how I often feel at times now since surgery. All alone in the world, like nobody else could possibly understand. I know thats not true but sometimes thats how it feels. My surgery felt like a solo journey. Even though I was surrounded by all the people involved, it was just me. I had my parents throughout my hospital stay and I thank God for them, I could not have done it without them. But a few years back I moved and havent made many new friends since. So my good friends were far away and new friends seemed to drift away form me in my time of crisis. Even people who swore they wanted to come visit me as soon as I got home never called or showed up. I was very very alone.

The emotional experience of the trauma of surgery combined with the cocktail of anesthesia, pain killers and meds I wanted to believe were only temporary. I too was very emotional in the weeks after surgery, I would get very choked up and teary watching movies or TV shows. Its still that way now three months later but not as much on the surface, but something inside has definitely been tapped into. Much as others here have stated I feel like Im changed and my perspective is just different now. I think that Im okay with that mostly, as far as what that change might mean for myself Im still finding out, but I struggle with how to make the change meaningful and positive. So far I just feel stuck. The reality of returning to my normal life doesnt feel good. Going back to the rat race and not slowing down to enjoy life. A lot of that at the moment centers around returning to work. I work for someone who is a constant source of frustration and anxiety to everyone around her. She is perpetually stressed and infects others around her with that stress. It makes my job unrewarding and unnecessarily exhausting. Plus I now resent her for the lack of empathy she has shown me through my ordeal. No phone calls, not even a get well soon card, and recently she made an implied threat that she'd let me go if I couldnt return to work soon enough.

Im so grateful to have made it through all of this and want to make it all the more meaningful by finding strength and happiness in what I consider my new life post surgery. Im just struggling with how to do that, where to do that, who will do it with me and who will surround me in my new life. It all feels very overwhelming at times.

Oh and I too vote to make this a sticky! Minus a few of the unrelated posts to this thread to clean it up maybe

Your boss sounds like a total douchebag. Do what's best for your health. I've opened up some other business opportunities over the past few years so I am no longer tied to a desk 40+ hours a week. I would not want to return to that after going through the surgery.

 

[almost_hectic]

Your boss sounds like a total douchebag. Do what's best for your health. I've opened up some other business opportunities over the past few years so I am no longer tied to a desk 40+ hours a week. I would not want to return to that after going through the surgery.

Unfortunately Im not independently wealthy so I don't have much choice but to return to work. What's next after that, I don't know...

 

[epstns]

If you know a labor attorney, I would discuss that threat that "she might let me go if I do not return to work soon enough." Neither she nor you is fully in charge of your return to work. Your medical team needs to release you to work as well. If they say you are not ready to return to work, you are not. Your boss has no right to over-rule the doctors. Most states have laws protecting employees in your situation, and you may be protected by one or more of them.

Also, I'm no expert, but there is also the Federal Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) that may apply. Employers are required to hold open the jobs of people who need leave for certain medical reasons. The employers are not required to pay the employee, but the employee cannot be terminated for properly utilizing the leave.

 

[almost_hectic]

If you know a labor attorney, I would discuss that threat that "she might let me go if I do not return to work soon enough." Neither she nor you is fully in charge of your return to work. Your medical team needs to release you to work as well. If they say you are not ready to return to work, you are not. Your boss has no right to over-rule the doctors. Most states have laws protecting employees in your situation, and you may be protected by one or more of them.

Also, I'm no expert, but there is also the Federal Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) that may apply. Employers are required to hold open the jobs of people who need leave for certain medical reasons. The employers are not required to pay the employee, but the employee cannot be terminated for properly utilizing the leave.

Yeah well I'm in Florida, right to work state. Employees have no rights. Plus the company is to small to fall under the FMLA guidelines so they get a pass on that one. It is what it is. I'm fortunate they held my job at all.

 

[honeybunny]

I feel your pain AH. I was laid off from a job while I was out recovering from a C-section and the death of my newborn son from osteogenesis imperfecta. Two years later I was laid off from another job two weeks before my fourth child was due and consequently had no medical insurance when she was born. On top of that my previous uterine incision ruptured and she and I nearly died. I had $15,000 in hospital bills that took me 8 years to pay. This took place before COBRA, early 1980s. I consulted a lawyer who said I had no recourse because Texas is a right to work state like Florida. So I understand your stress and your boss's subtle threats. My hope for you is that you find another job as soon as possible, one that is rewarding and stress free. Hugs, Michele

 

[almost_hectic]

Thank you Michelle , yes I can't focus on the negative. I have to find the positive, whatever that may mean. Good news, I still have 2 weeks vacation time this year!!

 

[Heartvalvefix]

I realize that this string is from a while back but I ran across it and was so appreciative of it. I am six months post op now and am finding that my most significant struggles are centred around emotions and fatigue - which are likely interrelated. At first I was very focused on "getting back to normal" physically.
I now realize that:
- My body went through a major assault followed by complications which my brain has not fully come to terms with.
- I have been comparing myself to others - the so called normal people.
- I feel like no one else (except people who have been through it) can in any way understand what I am going through so in a way I am alone.
- I sometimes worry that something else is going to "happen".
- The odd time I feel a bit resentful that this happened to me in the first place.
Reading this site and some really great blogs that I have come across has been very helpful. I am starting to come to terms with the fact that this a journey that does not end with the 12 weeks of bone healing that the surgeons tell you about - there is no "end date". I also realize that everyone has their challenges at one point or another and this is just one of mine. Most importantly I think I have come to understand that I will never be exactly the same as I was before and that what I need to focus on is being the best version of the new me that I can be. I have always been a very up person so having down days is a very new experience for me but I do recognize that this experience has in ways allowed me to enter a new world where I have learned a lot and connected with some wonderful people. So there are positives and they are important to focus on.
Thanks again to all of you who for providing your thoughts on a topic that probably deserves much more attention in the cardiac surgery world.

 

[cldlhd]

Ya the surgeons aren't really equipped to discuss the emotional and of it. I think a lot of the intensity of these feelings are likely to fade over time . I'm a year out and I think I'm a bit more emotional than before. It's weird but I find myself getting choked up more than before. It happened the other day at a movie with my son.

 

[pellicle]

it Hi

I realize that this string is from a while back but I ran across it and was so appreciative of it.

indeed, what is old for one is new for another ... and to me at least adding to these threads is good because it gives other readers the perspective of time and we all ask the same questions eventually
.

I am six months post op now and am finding that my most significant struggles are centred around emotions and fatigue - which are likely interrelated. At first I was very focused on "getting back to normal" physically.

myself I think its all part of the journey towards understanding what it means when we say "we are all unique" ... that is: there is no "normal"

I now realize that:
- My body went through a major assault followed by complications which my brain has not fully come to terms with.
- I have been comparing myself to others - the so called normal people.
- I feel like no one else (except people who have been through it) can in any way understand what I am going through so in a way I am alone.
- I sometimes worry that something else is going to "happen".
- The odd time I feel a bit resentful that this happened to me in the first place.

well I think that's all part of learning that you are unique (despite similarities with others. I'd like to latch on to the last point because I feel that it underpins your discoveries.

I feel that most people are asleep ... the childhood blurring of fantasy world VS real world does not always result in people understanding "reality" but becoming attuned to the expectations of others around them. So in a way, they are in a shared fantasy. Going to work each day, owning things, being "respected" ... whatever it is, this is all just fantasy. Worse, there is the shared misbelief that you are somehow in control of your life. For instance: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2015/09...-delusion.html

I suppose I have been lucky, I was first operated on at about 9 ... my best friend died of cancer at about 21, I had another OHS at 28 and then again at 48 and my wife died of cancer 6 months after that.

This has kicked me in the pain gland so much that despite the tendency to turn off the alarm and go back to sleep that the real world is indeed out there.

Its easier to miss the real world when you're embraced by the shared delusion of our society.

But the real world is the wind on your face, the cold of crisp winters day, the pain of a banged thumb, the pleasure at making something well and the warmth of the love you feel when with your spouse / children / friends. To miss those things in exchange for "precious metals" or even worse just fiat currency ... don't miss out on it, and no amount of "years of service" in working for a big corporation will ever replace those things.

Read this book as your "adult" primer into seeing life:
https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-So.../dp/0143117467


...then get out and live life ... do **** ... soak up the world

because you now have had the alarm go off that tells you:

1. it can and will end
2. that life without your health is ****
3. you can't buy health you have to earn it

Earn the health you have, earn the love of those around you and don't wish to go back to sleep and wish you were spared this.

Don't be resentful, be grateful; because now you're alive.

 

[Heartvalvefix]

Thank pellicle
Interestingly I had a major health event that almost killed me 16 yrs ago and that I recovered from and went on to live my life fully. So I do understand and appreciate very much the value of good health. The heart surgery for some reason is taking more of a toll on me emotionally. As a result I am trying to work through it and come to terms with it. As mentioned this forum helps greatly.

 

[cldlhd]

it Hi



indeed, what is old for one is new for another ... and to me at least adding to these threads is good because it gives other readers the perspective of time and we all ask the same questions eventually
.




myself I think its all part of the journey towards understanding what it means when we say "we are all unique" ... that is: there is no "normal"




well I think that's all part of learning that you are unique (despite similarities with others. I'd like to latch on to the last point because I feel that it underpins your discoveries.

I feel that most people are asleep ... the childhood blurring of fantasy world VS real world does not always result in people understanding "reality" but becoming attuned to the expectations of others around them. So in a way, they are in a shared fantasy. Going to work each day, owning things, being "respected" ... whatever it is, this is all just fantasy. Worse, there is the shared misbelief that you are somehow in control of your life. For instance: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/2015/09...-delusion.html

I suppose I have been lucky, I was first operated on at about 9 ... my best friend died of cancer at about 21, I had another OHS at 28 and then again at 48 and my wife died of cancer 6 months after that.

This has kicked me in the pain gland so much that despite the tendency to turn off the alarm and go back to sleep that the real world is indeed out there.

Its easier to miss the real world when you're embraced by the shared delusion of our society.

But the real world is the wind on your face, the cold of crisp winters day, the pain of a banged thumb, the pleasure at making something well and the warmth of the love you feel when with your spouse / children / friends. To miss those things in exchange for "precious metals" or even worse just fiat currency ... don't miss out on it, and no amount of "years of service" in working for a big corporation will ever replace those things.

Read this book as your "adult" primer into seeing life:
https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-So.../dp/0143117467


...then get out and live life ... do **** ... soak up the world

because you now have had the alarm go off that tells you:

1. it can and will end
2. that life without your health is ****
3. you can't buy health you have to earn it

Earn the health you have, earn the love of those around you and don't wish to go back to sleep and wish you were spared this.

Don't be resentful, be grateful; because now you're alive.

I'll get around to reading the blogs but just wanted to say well said , although I will admit to enjoying a purchase now and then -particularly something like electronics- I know that fun is fleeting but .hey. A "promotion" at my work opened up recently and I didn't throw my hat in the ring. A friend of mine took it even though it isn't more money, you're responsible for everything, you work longer hours, you're permanently on call and can be fired anytime. A board member asked me why I didn't put in for it and I told him I liked my job but not enough to replace my life and instead of staying late every day I'd rather pick my son up from school and spend time with him.I showed him how to solder copper pipe the other day, I don't know how much sunk in to his 9 year old brain but I like to think it'll stay in there somewhere. Or our recent trip to the mountains swimming , fishing etc.. I'll take that over the office and the title.