Possible replacement for coumadin???

[Philip B]

Dangerous Drugs

Dangerous Drugs

One more shot and I'll fade away and disappear for awhile...

Gee, it's probably time for them to come up with an alternative for insulin...from what I've seen I don't know of a drug that's used by millions of people that has the complexities of insulin and has the potential for a rather bad outcome if those who need to use it fail to dose properly. Of course, Dr. Beck and everyone else is perfectly free to differ in their opinions.

Anyone know any diabetics who have to monitor their glucose intake and test themselves several times a day to avoid dropping into insulin shock or diabetic coma? One of my teachers has to test himself when he gets up every morning, before every meal, and immediately after exercise.

For the record, let me ask, how many perscription drugs will kill things in the proper dosage? The folks I've heard about committing suicide over the last few years didn't opt for coumadin (rat poison); they opted for other perscription and over-the-counter drugs.

Anyway, I'm really really done now. See you guys.

-Philip

 

[dick0236]

When I first came to this site about 1-1/2 years ago, I could not understand the sometimes bitter anti-Coumadin/Warfarin posts. I have been on the stuff for almost 41 years. I have had a CVA that left me with a permanent vision problem that may or may not have been caused by Coumadin. If it was caused by the drug it was almost certainly my mismanagement that was at fault. I have a mechanical valve and need to be on ACT. For the past 33 years I have easily managed the drug WITHOUT incident. My personal opinion is that the majority of problems with warfain are due to personal mismanagement of dosing and/or periodic testing.

I manage my INR with my PCP. He askes for my input as to where I want my numbers within the 2.5-3.5 range. He would like it under 3.0 but I like it over 3.0. He is OK with it over 3.0 and that is where we try to keep it.

ACT management is as simple as a seven day pillbox and jotting "PT" in my day planner for every few weeks.

 

[Bina]

Phillip, I agree....My sister became an insulin dependant diabetic last year, she has so much disruption and aggravation in her life trying to cope with daily testing and her new drug. She has had a very hard time of it.
Given a choice, I will choose my coumadin, thank you.

(I'm looking out the window, and what do I see.....oh my, it looks like Rain!)
Gotta run and close some windows.

 

[Karlynn]

it's probably time for them to come up with an alternative for insulin...from what I've seen I don't know of a drug that's used by millions of people that has the complexities of insulin and has the potential for a rather bad outcome if those who need to use it fail to dose properly. Of course, Dr. Beck and everyone else is perfectly free to differ in their opinions.

Anyone know any diabetics who have to monitor their glucose intake and test themselves several times a day to avoid dropping into insulin shock or diabetic coma? One of my teachers has to test himself when he gets up every morning, before every meal, and immediately after exercise.

This is what I've always never understood. I think if we did a poll of people who aren't familiar with Coumadin and asked them "If you had to make a choice between life-long insulin dependance and life-long warfarin dependance - which would you choose?" Just from what we see here, I'm wiling to guess that most would choose insulin. With TV commercials on glucose testers and the fact that most people probably know someone who is insulin dependant, it looks a lot less scary. But what people don't understand is that it's a much more intense management than warfarin and the mistakes made can be much more quickly dire than with warfarin. If warfarin management required the same amount of diligence that insulin does, I doubt we'd see nearly as many mechanical valves being implanted.

 

[MikeHeim]

One of the things that has always puzzled me on this site is the number of Warfarin takers that seem dead-set against a company attempting to find a better alternative to the drug. I am of the firm belief that we should be finding better and safer alternatives to ALL drugs. Warfarin, properly managed, is a perfectly safe drug. That sentence, and various similar forms, is thrown around this site all the time. The members we have that have been on the drug for 30+ years are proof positive that such a statement is 100% correct. However, wouldn't it be great if you could pull "properly managed" out of that statement? I agree with Ross and others who say that mismanagement is by far the biggest issue with ACT overall. So why not find an alternative that pulls out that factor altogether? I see absolutely no downside to trying to develop a drug that doesn't require testing and adjustment at all. It baffles me why some others seem against it.

Insulin was mentioned above as a drug where the person wondered why no one is looking for a better alternative. Unfortunately, you're stuck with insulin as the drug, but I can tell you that a TON of work is going on with regards to delivery. The company I work for being one of them. One of the alternatives identified is a patch that would only need to be changed weekly, or a small pill-like device that would be implanted in the user and slowly release insulin over a matter of months. Hopefully we are getting close to a breakthrough that would positively impact thousands of lives.

Some of the posts accuse anyone who is for an alternative to Warfarin as "attacking" it. If being for companies researching an alternative is "attacking" the drug, then I guess I am attacking it. I am for better alternatives to all drugs, but this being a valve replacement message board, Warfarin is the one that's going to come up most frequently. However, I am also for finding a pain killer to replace aspirin, Ibuprofin, and Tylenol that doesn't cause issues with your stomach lining. I would also like a cough medicine where I don't have to choose between falling asleep in 20 minutes and being wired out of my mind for four hours. I would furthermore like prescription pain killers that are not prone to addiction and an anti-itch medicine for mosquito bites that actually works. Almost every drug on the market could be improved either with functionality, side effect reduction, or elimination of contraindications.

 

[geebee]

Now I am confused - I have never read a post that indicates anyone here is against a better replacement for Coumadin. We are merely hesitant when we hear about them since there have been so much talk but nothing ever comes through. If there is a new med with better (and proven) results, I would be all over it.

Where have you seen posts that are against a replacement?

 

[Ross]

One of the things that has always puzzled me on this site is the number of Warfarin takers that seem dead-set against a company attempting to find a better alternative to the drug. I am of the firm belief that we should be finding better and safer alternatives to ALL drugs. Warfarin, properly managed, is a perfectly safe drug. That sentence, and various similar forms, is thrown around this site all the time. The members we have that have been on the drug for 30+ years are proof positive that such a statement is 100% correct. However, wouldn't it be great if you could pull "properly managed" out of that statement? I agree with Ross and others who say that mismanagement is by far the biggest issue with ACT overall. So why not find an alternative that pulls out that factor altogether? I see absolutely no downside to trying to develop a drug that doesn't require testing and adjustment at all. It baffles me why some others seem against it.

Insulin was mentioned above as a drug where the person wondered why no one is looking for a better alternative. Unfortunately, you're stuck with insulin as the drug, but I can tell you that a TON of work is going on with regards to delivery. The company I work for being one of them. One of the alternatives identified is a patch that would only need to be changed weekly, or a small pill-like device that would be implanted in the user and slowly release insulin over a matter of months. Hopefully we are getting close to a breakthrough that would positively impact thousands of lives.

Some of the posts accuse anyone who is for an alternative to Warfarin as "attacking" it. If being for companies researching an alternative is "attacking" the drug, then I guess I am attacking it. I am for better alternatives to all drugs, but this being a valve replacement message board, Warfarin is the one that's going to come up most frequently. However, I am also for finding a pain killer to replace aspirin, Ibuprofin, and Tylenol that doesn't cause issues with your stomach lining. I would also like a cough medicine where I don't have to choose between falling asleep in 20 minutes and being wired out of my mind for four hours. I would furthermore like prescription pain killers that are not prone to addiction and an anti-itch medicine for mosquito bites that actually works. Almost every drug on the market could be improved either with functionality, side effect reduction, or elimination of contraindications.

No one is against it, but we are worried about the trade offs which appear to be worse then Coumadin. Mike they are working on something according to Al Lodwick. He stated that he doubted anyone would be on Coumadin in 10 years, so I think that's encouraging. Now lets hope that the replacement, should it happen, doesn't cause more problems then Coumadin itself. From my understanding, at least one of them being studied has a certain degree of Liver toxicity and you must have yearly liver testiing.

 

[Karlynn]

"But the ultimate goal is an alternative to that old standby warfarin, also called Coumadin, the nation's most troublesome lifesaver because of side effects and restrictions its 2 million users face."

That statement irritates me to no end. If only the U.S. medical field would learn about the drug and how to dose it, it wouldn't be such an issue. The LARGEST PROBLEM ISN'T THE DRUG, BUT THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW HOW TO DOSE PROPERLY. We see it every single day in here. Constant barrages of old time thinking and myths. What really bothers me is that they'll blame the drug and the patient or his/her valves, but fail to own up to their own shortcomings. Until they fess up and understand that it's a problem across the country and none of them are on the same page, it's always going to be this way.

According to Al Lodwick, there is a whole host of drugs being worked with and he thinks there will be a replacement within the next 10 years. I'm not holding my breath either, but this is the word.

I totally agree with Ross' statement. It is highly frustrating for those that have taken the drug for a long time, manage it ourselves without issue, to continually see that people are on the hunt for a new drug because Coumadin is so damaging - when we know that most of the damage done is by those who haven't a clue how to manage the drug.

If they come up with an even safer alternative (note I said "safer" and not "safe) than I'll be all for it. But I, for one am not going to sleep each night praying for a Coumadin alternative. I have lived my life well and burden-free on the drug and I have so much more that makes more impact in my life and the life of those I love that I need to address.

There are no attacks here. There are comments by people who take the drug. We have seen other articles on warfarin alternatives in the future. Take a look at those. The problem we have with this article is the bias against the drug that we so often see - day to day.

 

[catwoman]

Mike:

A replacement for warfarin would have to be one that would work for all users, not just someone who got a tissue valve and had some a-fib for a short while, or someone who has a knee or hip joint replacement who's been told to take it for 6 weeks post-op.

I don't know what percentage of warfarin patients are short-term users as opposed to long-term (chronic) users, such as mechanical valvers, patients with repeat DVT/pulmonary emboli, etc.
From what I read about Exanta -- one of the drugs touted as a possible replacement for warfarin -- it would have made a better replacement for short-term use than for long-term, due to the liver problems that surfaced.

Most of the replacement drugs have been tested on short-term users.

That's why I haven't been holding my breath about a replacement that is "safer." It would have to meet many needs.

 

[Rain]

I am very thankful for warfarin.

I am very thankful for warfarin.

That doesn’t mean it’s something I can just forget about and mosey on with my life.

I have to take anti-biotics for something as simple as a teeth cleaning, I have to bridge off and on for surgery, wear an ID to let medical folks know I’m on it, slice my finger every week, I have bruises up and down my legs that won’t go away... I could go on and on. Are these things a HUGE deal in my life.... mostly no. Do I like having to deal with it.....NO.

I would worry me greatly for the person who takes warfarin and depends on others to know the consequences of being on it. As is stated here on this site over and over... you cannot depend on your medical people to know the dos and don’ts of warfarin.

I have a mechanical valve and would make the same choice again. I have a son who is looking at surgery in his future. I’m not so sure the same would be the best choice for him. Different people have different circumstances/opinions/etc. no one valve is the correct choice for everyone. I feel bad for the new people who come to this site and get a brow beating if they try to justify their desire for a tissue valve. Or complain of some of the issues I’ve mentioned above.

QUOTE:
For the record, let me ask, how many perscription drugs will kill things in the proper dosage?

How many drugs require such close monitoring and dosage changes? I don’t think the people who have problems are trying to commit suicide.

Rain and beautiful rainbows are gracing our skies here in southern Colorado today. Thank God, I am alive and here to spend the afternoon with my darling grandson... some people seem to never get away from their computer monitor to enjoy the real beauty of life.

Hope you all are doing great. I don’t get here very often.... But I do think of you all now and then and occasionally check up on you.

 

[geebee]

... some people seem to never get away from their computer monitor to enjoy the real beauty of life.

Was this really a necessary comment to anyone? It just sounds downright mean.

 

[Rain]

You're right, Geebee... very childish.

You're right, Geebee... very childish.

I was responding/reacting to Bina?s post stating.....

?(I'm looking out the window, and what do I see.....oh my, it looks like Rain!)
Gotta run and close some windows.?

I do appologize. Never good to read and respond so quickly.. without walking away for a while. On second thought I would not have given her the satisfaction of recognition.... or made such a generalization. It was a rotten thing to say.

 

[njean]

I was responding/reacting to Bina?s post stating.....

?(I'm looking out the window, and what do I see.....oh my, it looks like Rain!)
Gotta run and close some windows.?

I do appologize. Never good to read and respond so quickly.. without walking away for a while. On second thought I would not have given her the satisfaction of recognition.... or made such a generalization. It was a rotten thing to say.

Ahh me lost here! Can someone explain what the heck just happened!?

 

[Karlynn]

Just a simple point of clarification for those reading - antibiotics are not required by Coumadin users, they are required for anyone that has a history of compromised heart valves, be they pre-surgery, repaired, mechanical, tissue or Ross. Althought there is some discussion on whether pre-medication is needed/useful.

I don't get away from my computer during the day sometimes because my job requires me to use the computer a lot.

 

[catwoman]

I don't get away from my computer during the day sometimes because my job requires me to use the computer a lot.

I'm online 8 hours a day at work. I keep 2 windows open for incoming work from a special website (1 active and another in case so I can check a file without having to close first window), an Excel file open, work e-mail open, so it's easy to keep yet another window open with vr.com. I may check it every 10-15 minutes, and sometimes it may be a couple of hours if things get busy. If I get a lull, I run searches (for 2 new laptops, airline tickets, cardiac items, etc.).

And I agree with Karlynn:
We need to make sure that newbies realize that being on warfarin doesn't equate to needing antibiotics before dentals. It's the valve situation that requires it.