Pooled Purchasing

[Protimenow]

I'm hoping that this post doesn't violate any forum rules. This is certainly not my intention, and if so, Hank, please feel free to delete this thread.

I know that there are a lot of home testers out there - if you're reading this thread, you're probably already a home tester or considering becoming one.

Here's a situation that many of us face:

In order to get a supply of test strips (affordably), many of us probably have to buy 48 InRatio or 48 CoaguChek, or 25 ProTime in single package. Some of these strips may expire less than 48 weeks from the time we buy them. This means that we're probably buying strips that we won't have time to use up. Plus, if we're testing only bi-weekly, or perhaps once a month, this is a LOT more strips than we actually need.

Not all distributors of the strips will sell directly to non-medical people, but you may be able to find a doctor who can order on your behalf - and possibly save you considerable money. You may also be able to buy from sources on eBay or Amazon.

Here's my thought - if we can only buy our strips in quantities of 48, and probably won't be able to use them all before they expire -- and there are others here who use the same strips - would it be possible to set up a system to split a purchase? What if, for example, I say 'I'm buying 48 XX strips. If you want information, contact me' - and you know that this means 'I'd like to split the purchase - send me an e-mail and we can go 50/50?' Would making a general statement ' I'm buying some strips' be a violation of forum rules?

Is this something that has been proposed before? Is it something ValveReplacement.org would allow?

If I can go to my Rite-Aid up the street, or to Target - or anywhere that they sell blood glucose testers and strips, without prescription - and buy testers, lancets and test strips, why shouldn't a person who uses a different type of strip for a different kind of meter be able to split a purchase with someone else using the same strips?

I certainly don't want to break any laws, or step on any toes here. I think, though, that it may be in our best interest to not waste our money on strips that we can't use up -- and it may make it more accessible for people who don't currently have the ability to buy 48 strips at a time, and less wasteful because all the strips will probably be used, rather than the last ones discarded.

What do YOU think?

 

[Marty]

This is a good idea. Who would manage it?

 

[nngbwh]

I am not a home tester but that sounds like a money saver. I am just curious. How much do you actually save ?

 

[dick0236]

A lot of us, me included, have to use a monitoring system thru Alere, Phillips, etc. in order to get insurance reimbursement. As part of that agreement, Alere supplies my test strips at no direct charge to me.

 

[ShezaGirlie]

I'm only speaking of CoaguChek strips.. There is only ONE chip in each box which correlates with the strips from that box, so another machine sharing a box of strips would have no chip and not work.

I don't know about the other brands of machines..

 

[Protimenow]

Janie - great point. Unless the other user has a chip with the same number (pretty unlikely), the strips won't work. I had forgotten about that.

I know that Roche also sells strips in 12-packs - and each pack comes with a chip. I don't know how much money could be saved if you bought four 12-packs. (Pooled purchasing this way could assure up to four self-testers a 12 week supply of really fresh strips, or two testers supplies of 24 strips - it may save some money).

I don't know about InRatio -- but if they don't use a chip, this may be a way to save some testers some real money.

Marty -- the savings could be significant. I've gotten prices for individual strips AS HIGH AS $15 a strip. Getting them in 48-packs (and then, perhaps, selling half of them at cost, plus a few dollars for shipping) could bring the price down to $4-6 or so each. Also, considering the likelihood that some testers who had to buy 48 strips at a time would otherwise have to let their strips expire, because they don't run that many tests, the cost per strip OVERALL could also go pretty high)

As far as managing this exchange, we've got to keep ValveReplacement.ORG very clean here.

Here's my idea:

Start a thread entitled "I just bought some strips" (or something similar). Say what you bought, and perhaps how much you paid - and that's all the information you need to provide. Then, if someone wants to buy part of that lot, they can private e-mail you at your member address on ValveReplacement.org. ValveReplacement.org shouldn't be responsible for monitoring all the private mails between members, and any negotiations would be up to you. This thread may also include something like "I'm about to buy some strips" or "I need some strips" or something like that. This way, if someone has extras, they can send you a private mail message and you can see what can be worked out between you.

For strips that don't require a chip to work, this may work well. It's a waste of resources and money if you have to buy chips that aren't going to be used.

One other thing to consider -- you probably won't be able to get Insurance company reimbursement for these purchases -- certainly the person(s) who split the purchase with you won't have receipts to show and won't be able to get reimbursement. If you have an insurance plan that WILL reimburse a strip purchase, let them. My goal here is certainly not to defraud the insurance companies.

BTW: I now have about 43 CoaguChek PT strips for the CoaguChek S meter, expiring in June 2011. I will probably use them all up, doing weekly tests (or testing more frequently if diet or activity change), by June. I also have about 18 or so of the 3 Channel ProTime strips, expiring in March 2011. Other than verifying the CoaguChek S results, I don't think I'll use them all up before they expire next March (although I know how to extend the usability a while longer). I bought these with my own money.

 

[Hank]

I see a few issues with this. From ValveReplacement.org's point of view - this could not be managed on this forum as there are legal aspect with prescriptions and FDA training requirements. Machines and supplies are only supposed to be supplied by FDA certified vendors.

Then there is the chip aspect that Janie mentions which would make it impossible to "share" strips.

Protimenow - I welcome these discussions on this forum, but you gotta always keep in ming that what is logical, is not always legal, and therefore most certainly not reimburseable by insurance companies. For example - If they cover 50 strips at a testing frequency of 2 weeks, you won't get covered again until the strips would have been consumed at the prescribed rate.

 

[Protimenow]

Hank:

I understand, and made most of these points in my posting just before yours. (Showing that I understood the issues, wanted to shield you, wanted to prevent any insurance issues, and didn't think the forum should be formally involved in this).

ValveReplacement.org should not be involved in this. Private messaging between members is probably something you, as administrator, shouldn't get involved in policing, for privacy reasons, and because all members agreed to do nothing illegal when they joined the forum. Also, with as many members as you already have, 'policing' private messages would be too time consuming to be practical.

 

[Marty]

For the record, INRatio has no "chips". I buy 48 for cash at $4.00/strip. Since Alice and I are both on warfarin we have no problem in using them all before the expiration date.

 

[Protimenow]

Marty:

This is the best way to 'pool' strips. It's a perfect illustration of my idea. Short of having a significant other or friend who uses them - or being able to find others in the area who also use them - perhaps just indicating that you are going to buy - or just bought some - will help you find others who may want to contact you.

 

[catwoman]

Several people have done this before, all among themselves w/out any public announcements. One person buys a box of strips and lets others in his/her group know that "fresh" strips are available. This works fine.

However, if you have an FSA (I do), you aren't reimbursed for expenditures this way. I have been reimbursed for purchasing strips via Amazon or e-Bay.

BTW, I believe you can reset the date on your machine so that it will accept those "expired" strips. Several have told me about having done this.

 

[Protimenow]

Several people have done this before, all among themselves w/out any public announcements. One person buys a box of strips and lets others in his/her group know that "fresh" strips are available. This works fine.

However, if you have an FSA (I do), you aren't reimbursed for expenditures this way. I have been reimbursed for purchasing strips via Amazon or e-Bay.

BTW, I believe you can reset the date on your machine so that it will accept those "expired" strips. Several have told me about having done this.

NOTE: This is in response to Catwoman's comments about being able to reset the date on your machine to accept expired strips. I am NOT suggesting that ANYBODY should use expired strips, even though, as Catwoman said, 'Several have told (her) about having done this'.

On some meters, you ARE able to reset the date on your strips so that you fool the machine into taking 'expired' strips. Out of necessity, I extended the usable period of a few ProTime strips. Because the ProTime strips have internal quality control, my concerns about using the expired strips were reduced because the QC on the strips confirmed that they were still good. (When I compared the results from my 'expired' strips to those of my 'fresh' strips, I got the same results).

As soon as I was able to, I ordered new strips and tossed the expired ones.

I'm not entirely sure of results from an expired CoaguChek PT strip, because there are no quality controls built into the strip. However, I've learned that many medications - and medical devices like strips - are given expiration dates that are probably considerably earlier than when they actually expire so that the person using the strip or medication will get the full potency out of the medication and the accurate use of the strip. 'Expired' strips MAY BE GOOD for a few months after they expire -- but I certainly wouldn't count on this -- especially if the strips don't have quality control built in. ALTHOUGH YOU MAY BE ABLE TO TRICK YOUR METER INT ALLOWING YOU TO USE EXPIRED STRIPS, AND OTHERS HAVE REPORTEDLY DONE THIS, I AM NOT ADVISING ANYONE TO DO THIS. I certainly plan to use my 48 CoauChek PT strips before they expire. AGAIN, I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT IT IS SAFE TO USE EXPIRED STRIPS, EVEN IF YOUR METER CAN BE FOOLED INTO ACCEPTING THEM.


---

Has there been a 'which machine do you use?' thread? It may facilitate communications between users of a particular tester on things relating to use and supply issues.

If not, I certainly wouldn't mind starting it. (I've posted a lot in the couple weeks I've been here and certainly do NOT want to dominate these forums)

 

[Protimenow]

There's a new wrinkle to this story. I just learned that there will no longer be strips available for the CoaguChek S meters after October 2011. What I think this means is that all the strips available after that date will have quality controls built in.

The CoaguChek XS still requires a code strip. I don't know if Roche sells 12 packs of the strips (they sell 12 packs of the strips for the CoaguChek S), or if buying more of the 12 packs at one time will provide enough savings to pool strip purchases.

 

[Bina]

This is indeed a lovely thread.
From buying medical equipment without a prescription, to buying outdated meters, to buying expired strips, to altering data to accept the said expired strips....the crap just goes on and on......
ClickerMark's Twin: Hopefully you will have more than this to contribute to this forum.

 

[Protimenow]

Bina -- I never mentioned buying expired strips. I haven't and wouldn't EVER buy expired strips, and I NEVER advised that anyone should. If you actually READ this thread, you would have seen that my idea about pooling strip purchases was to AVOID having strips expire, and making the best use of the freshest strips by enabling members to share the cost of strips (through private emails between them).

I said that it's possible to alter data to accept expired strips, in response to a post from Catwoman who said she heard of some people using expired strips, but advised against it. I advised against getting the CoaguChek S meter - which was trusted for a long time and, suddenly, because there's a newer meter out, is no longer trustworthy? Because I said NOT to do something, in your mind, you think I actually am advising to DO it?

This thread was about pooling resources so that a person doesn't have to buy strips that wouldn't be used. I'm happy with my ProTime and my ProTime 3. They work perfectly well for me. I'm successfully managing my anticoagulation. I keep a spreadsheet and record every test, and am probably doing a better job managing my INR than most medical practices (and you'll see a lot of threads here about outrageous advice from medical practitioners and a LOT of people managing their own anticoagulation). I don't see why I needed a prescription to buy the meters -- unless I was insured and my carrier would cover much of the cost. If others aren't comfortable buying from a vendor on eBay, Amazon or elsewhere (many of which are medical supply companies), then they shouldn't buy that way, and I have never recommended that they do so.

The meters I mentioned are not 'outdated' -- they're still functional and even show up on the manufacturer's sites. They are previous generation models -- which were completely functional and fully trusted by medical professionals and medical facilities until the newer models came out. If you're driving a 2010 car, and the 2011 models come out, is your car no longer functional? It's the same with meters.

My last post was meant to note that CoaguChek S -- a meter that I assume some forum members bought with a prescription, from a medical supply house, and were maybe even reimbursed by their insurance companies, were about to become unusable in 14 months. My understanding, from what a tech support person at Roche told me, is that home testers who have CoaguChek S meters that came from medical suppliers, may not be eligible for lower cost upgrades to XS meters. Only medical professionals are apparently eligible to upgrade their meters to XS.

Carrying the car analogy a bit further, if your fully functional 1965 Chevy (or CoaguChek S) can't run on Unleaded gas(CoaguChek XS strips), and they no longer make leaded gas (CoaguChek PT strips), then the old Chevy (CoaguChek S), although still potentially functional, is no longer usable (just as the CoaguChek S will be in 14 months).

I don't see why you so strongly object to making it possible for the anticoagulated without insurance -- or those with insurance but for whom the cost of a meter would be a hardship because the insurance company doesn't want to pay -- to do their own monitoring. I'm not advocating doing this without medical supervision.

I don't know who clickermark is, or what he did, so I don't even know if I should resent your comment. I suggest that you READ the thread next time, and don't take comments out of context, before making erroneous comments.

And your suggestion that I have have 'more than this to contribute to this thread' -- do you mean more useful than 'Janie, how is your cat doing?" or "Lance, would you be so kind as to go to your barn and give your ponies a BIG KISS from me.
Time well spent.
Thanks. ;-) ? "

These are indeed useful contributions that you recently made.

Yes - I think I've already made some useful contributions. I pointed out that home testers (and probably some medical practices, too) may be mistakenly wiping away the first drop of blood instead of using it for testing. I pointed out that CoaguChek wants the first drop of blood, and ProTime doesn't. I explained why there's a difference between first drop and other drops. I get the sense that there were a lot of testers who didn't realize this, and may have been getting erroneous test results. I think that's a significant contribution.
Mentioning that strips for the CoaguChek S will probably not be usable after October 2011 is also a potentially useful contribution - especially for those on this forum who are still using these meters or considering buying one. I know they don't quite compare with 'how's your cat doing?', but I'm trying hard to make many useful contributions to this site.

Bina -- if you have any further problems with what I post, I suggest we handle your issues in private messages between us.

 

[Rain]

I always buy the box of 24, for my protime machine.... and make sure I tell them I want an expiration date one year out. It's never been a problem.

 

[Protimenow]

Actually, Rain, these are boxes of 25, if you really ARE buying for a ProTime machine. The others seem to only be available in boxes of 12 or 48. I didn't realize you can specify what dates you want and the vendor told me they were the furthest out - but I only got around 9 months on mine. But 25 strips over nine months is still just a bit less than every two weeks (plus a few extras if you need to test more often).
I like the fact that ProTime strips also come with the lancet and little collection gadget. It's a bit more trouble than some of the other meters, requires a bit more blood, but once you've leaped the learning curve IT WORKS.

 

[Cris N]

This is indeed a lovely thread.
From buying medical equipment without a prescription, to buying outdated meters, to buying expired strips, to altering data to accept the said expired strips....the crap just goes on and on......
ClickerMark's Twin: Hopefully you will have more than this to contribute to this forum.

Thanks, Bina. I was trying to remember the name of the member - Yup, I think you've got it.

 

[Protimenow]

Cris - as I said to Bina - if you have a problem with my posts, send me a personal e-mail. There's no need to air this stuff on this thread.

Also - if you read my response to Bina--and the thread, you'll see that many of her charges were just plain incorrect.

 

[Bina]

Oh my stars...lucky for me my internet is back on.
Mr. protimenow: Please note that I won't engage in any PM discussions with strangers.
If I have something to say, I will say it right here.