Ok to play football?

[Siraaj Wilkinson]

I

Hands down, I would recommend Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. It does not involve striking, so you should be able to train sensibly and develop good self defense. It involves leverage, chokes, and joint locks.

I started training in 1994 under the legendary Royce Gracie. You probably are aware of the UFC. Royce won 3 out of the first 4 UFC events and that was back when it was tournament style when he had to beat 3-4 opponents in one night. Full street fighting style, with very few rules, other than no biting. Almost anything goes. He defeated all of his opponents without throwing any strikes in most of his fights- just took them to the mat and submitted them with chokes and joint locks, despite being much smaller than almost all of his opponents. It changed the martial arts world. Now, all fighters in the MMA world train in BJJ as a core aspect of their fighting style, regardless of their background.

Here is a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu documentary that is well worth the watch and will give you an idea of why it works and how effective it was. There is a guy from my academy in the video- Richard. He talks about the Gracie challenge. This was something they did in the old days, before the UFC really took off. They had an open challenge to any fighter in the world, that they could come to the academy and try their style against BJJ in a "no holds barred" fight. I was there for much of this time and witnessed some of the fights he speaks of. They never lost. Not a single time. We had fighters from every style of martial art you can think if come in and try their style. They would always get taken to the mat and submitted. It would be a different outcome today, as the world has now discovered BJJ and millions train in it. But, back then, no one had any idea which martial art was truly superior.

ROLL: Jiu-Jitsu in SoCal
A documentary



Here is a documentary about my mentor and first teacher, Royce Gracie:



I would also recommend training in Muay Thai kickboxing, but just on the pads- don't do the actual sparring, as you do not want to be taking punches and kicks, just learn how to throw them. Muay Thai and BJJ is a lethal combination.

I will definitely check it out thank you

 

[Siraaj Wilkinson]

I played a lot of soccer when I was young up through college. I'm not sure it is a good idea on warfarin, and hopefully some on warfarin who play soccer can chime in and give their feedback. It has the potential to be very contact oriented. I used my head a lot and sometimes going for a header you knocked heads with another player- real bad idea. I would think that slide tackles would be out. But, not sure how you stop an opponent from slide tackling you- maybe develop style in which you pass the ball early. When I played, I was one of the idiots who did not care for shin guards and my shins go bloodied a few times- I would think this could be problematic, but not life threatening, so Superman's advice to wear shin guards is well noted.

I have played coed soccer before and this tends to be much more mellow and often has rules against slide tackles and such. Perhaps this would be something to explore.

I definitely won’t be playing Sunday league, If I ever do play it will probably be a friendly in a 5 a side game the warfarin is a bummer like the scary thing is if someone knocks into you like is it the end of the world if someone body checks you will you get internal bleeding etc. I would have to find out what the contact tolerance level is lol if that is even a thing

 

[pellicle]

I guess the fact that I am 26years old taking warfarin and being only 3 weeks into recovery is still a bit hard

ok, that's important information right there for the following reasons

Firstly all the advice on Warfarin and cautions you've been given by medical professionals is skewed towards older people (older means over 50), this is important because age matters in these issues. Lets start with the basics: warfarin does not cause bleeds it slows down them completing naturally. If you get a whack on the head its not the whack that does the harm, its all the massive movement that your brain undergoes when that happens. As we age not only does our skin wrinkle due to lost elasticity, but for exactly the same mechanisms your blood vessels lose their ability to take the stretching and twisting that happens when your head gets a whack.

Stroke is an excellent example of this happening and stroke is very age related:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6535078/

Aging is the most robust non-modifiable risk factor for incident stroke, which doubles every 10 years after age 55 years. Approximately three-quarters of all strokes occur in persons aged ≥65 years​

So if you head a football or do sports like boxing you run the risk of a bleed from a head injury

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5924627/
These days in competition (note >competition< ... backyard kick arounds are NOT like competition, those guys are elite) if you get a head injury you'll probably go to hospital and get a scan.

Next there is INR: INR is basically a measure of how quickly your blood clots, its a ratio, you over normal. If you're "normal" then your blood clots "normally" and your INR is 1:1
On warfarin if your INR = 2 then your blood clotting ratio is 2:1 meaning it clots in twice the time, same with 3

So if you keep your INR well controlled (which I strongly advocate for) then you'll be not much outside the normal population.

MEANING: don't sweat it, but don't be a dick about it all and you'll be fine

Best Wishes

PS:

the warfarin is a bummer like the scary thing is if someone knocks into you like is it the end of the world if

a wild exaggeration ... its just totally not like that.

 

[JannerJohn]

When on warfarin you can have a kick about but the insurance at 5 a side centre and any football league will not cover you (This is UK and I've checked). Plus it still gets lively even with the 60+ year olds broken toes, clashes, pushed into hording, balls to the head etc. Regardless of what others say if you are truly active and most people I know are and well into their later years blood thinners really upset the apple cart I'm very frustrated by it as I know the logical solution is for me to have a mechanical valve and I'm extremely active. My father still surfs 10-15ft waves at 76 as do a number of his peer group. I played a lot of rugby and some of the senior leagues only start at 50 years old (my age now). I know living is better than dying of course and there has to be a new normal that you adapt to but I keep seeing this act your age type comment in these responses but the reality is it is very restricting in comparison to what the general population just do normally even at older ages. I hate to remind myself that my situation is 1/30000 at 50 years old and >99% of people will never ever speak to a cardiothoracic surgeon let alone have open heart surgery. I think with modern health care in 2016 (from the office of national statistics UK) there are estimated to be 783,000 babies under one year old and the latest projection suggests that 248,400 of these will live to see their 100th birthday, that's one in every three, so being less active after 50 is a real burden, not that I will make 100.

 

[Superman]

When on warfarin you can have a kick about but the insurance at 5 a side centre and any football league will not cover you (This is UK and I've checked). Plus it still gets lively even with the 60+ year olds broken toes, clashes, pushed into hording, balls to the head etc. Regardless of what others say if you are truly active and most people I know are and well into their later years blood thinners really upset the apple cart I'm very frustrated by it as I know the logical solution is for me to have a mechanical valve and I'm extremely active. My father still surfs 10-15ft waves at 76 as do a number of his peer group. I played a lot of rugby and some of the senior leagues only start at 50 years old (my age now). I know living is better than dying of course and there has to be a new normal that you adapt to but I keep seeing this act your age type comment in these responses but the reality is it is very restricting in comparison to what the general population just do normally even at older ages. I hate to remind myself that my situation is 1/30000 at 50 years old and >99% of people will never ever speak to a cardiothoracic surgeon let alone have open heart surgery. I think with modern health care in 2016 (from the office of national statistics UK) there are estimated to be 783,000 babies under one year old and the latest projection suggests that 248,400 of these will live to see their 100th birthday, that's one in every three, so being less active after 50 is a real burden, not that I will make 100.

Speaking from your vast first hand experience of course. Thanks for setting us all straight.

 

[JannerJohn]

Speaking from your vast first hand experience of course. Thanks for setting us all straight.

Ha ha fair point Superman but its in the post, I don't really want to paint a completely black picture but lets face it it's the truth and nobody really wants any experience in this do they?

 

[Superman]

Ha ha fair point Superman but its in the post, I don't really want to paint a completely black picture but lets face it it's the truth and nobody really wants any experience in this do they?

Speak for yourself. If I didn’t have any experience with this, I wouldn’t have had much experience with anything.

 

[cldlhd]

When on warfarin you can have a kick about but the insurance at 5 a side centre and any football league will not cover you (This is UK and I've checked). Plus it still gets lively even with the 60+ year olds broken toes, clashes, pushed into hording, balls to the head etc. Regardless of what others say if you are truly active and most people I know are and well into their later years blood thinners really upset the apple cart I'm very frustrated by it as I know the logical solution is for me to have a mechanical valve and I'm extremely active. My father still surfs 10-15ft waves at 76 as do a number of his peer group. I played a lot of rugby and some of the senior leagues only start at 50 years old (my age now). I know living is better than dying of course and there has to be a new normal that you adapt to but I keep seeing this act your age type comment in these responses but the reality is it is very restricting in comparison to what the general population just do normally even at older ages. I hate to remind myself that my situation is 1/30000 at 50 years old and >99% of people will never ever speak to a cardiothoracic surgeon let alone have open heart surgery. I think with modern health care in 2016 (from the office of national statistics UK) there are estimated to be 783,000 babies under one year old and the latest projection suggests that 248,400 of these will live to see their 100th birthday, that's one in every three, so being less active after 50 is a real burden, not that I will make 100.

I get where you're coming from, I mean I first spoke to a cardiac surgeon at the age of 45. I may not have been into a lot of contact sports at that time but I was very active, still am. Also I'm not on warfarin but that was a distinct possibility at the time. If my valve needed replaced I was going to go mechanical. I see and can totally understand the whole "why me?" aspect of it But at the end of the day that's not going to get you anywhere. Even though I wasn't a total health nut, I live in the suburbs of Philly so I do have the occasional cheesesteak..., I kept myself in decent shape and I didn't smoke and I saw all these people who did two packs a day and they didn't have to deal with something like this- at least not yet. However I prefer to look at it like I was very lucky that they found my aneurysm, I mean it sucks that I had it in the first place But still, because there are plenty of people who have them and don't know it and just keel over one day. Also I like to look at it like I'm lucky I live in a time where there is a solution, the surgery I had didn't exist 50 years ago. Of course to speak the obvious 50 years from now the techniques will be even better, that is if we haven't
Entered a dystopian future..... I think it's normal to look at the negative side when you get this kind of news but I do believe you will come out of this in a better light eventually, yes you may have to find some balance and decide what risks you want to take and which ones you don't but eventually it will just become your normal daily life. And as you said previously It will be a lot better than the alternative.

 

[tom in MO]

Thank you, hopefully somebody can probably help me out with this all I get from the doctors are “you are not allowed to play contact sports” lol

To not play "contact sports" because you are on warfarin is too broad a statement. I'd avoid headers, but the science of the last 20 years says that's true for anybody. Three weeks out of surgery, you need to stay away from hard-contact anything to allow your sternum to heal. Some say wait 6 months before going full exertion, even if you work construction. Only you know how rough and tumble your league and your style of play are. You might get some good scabs, but they could scare the opposing team

 

[Chuck C]

I see and can totally understand the whole "why me?" aspect of it But at the end of the day that's not going to get you anywhere

Absolutely.

I prefer to look at it like I was very lucky that they found my aneurysm,

Great attitude! This is how I feel about my diagnosis as well. Of course, it is a punch to the gut to get such news- it was for me at age 52, but at the end of the day I am extremely grateful that my BAV was discovered and your point about the alternative is well noted. We have a condition with a cure. We are fortunate.

 

[Superman]

Also, for those of you that found out later in life, you were able to enjoy over 50 years care free with respect to this condition. That’s something to be cherished. I know it’s harder sometimes when it comes out of nowhere.

Having grown up, “In the waiting room”, so to speak, I never was able to have carefree living with respect to health. Back in the 1970’s and 80’s for my doctor and parents, it was a approach of avoidance. No phys ed at school with other kids telling me I was lucky I didn’t have to (get to) participate. No team sports. Never had those team friendships.

Part of the reason I see open heart, when it finally got to me, as liberating and something to look forward to. I didn’t fear it.

 

[cldlhd]

Also, for those of you that found out later in life, you were able to enjoy over 50 years care free with respect to this condition. That’s something to be cherished. I know it’s harder sometimes when it comes out of nowhere.

Having grown up, “In the waiting room”, so to speak, I never was able to have carefree living with respect to health. Back in the 1970’s and 80’s for my dictor and parents, it was a approach of avoidance. No phys ed at school with other kids telling me I was lucky I didn’t have to (get to) participate. No team sports. Never had those team friendships.

Part of the reason I see open heart, when it finally got to me, as liberating and something to look forward to. I didn’t fear it.

That is true, I haven't thought about that too much but I didn't discover my situation until I was a couple of weeks before my 45th birthday. So all those years I never had it in my mind that I would need a surgery like this, then I was fortunate to have found it when my aneurysm was almost 5 cm.

 

[Chuck C]

Also, for those of you that found out later in life, you were able to enjoy over 50 years care free with respect to this condition. That’s something to be cherished. I know it’s harder sometimes when it comes out of nowhere.

Having grown up, “In the waiting room”, so to speak, I never was able to have carefree living with respect to health. Back in the 1970’s and 80’s for my doctor and parents, it was a approach of avoidance. No phys ed at school with other kids telling me I was lucky I didn’t have to (get to) participate. No team sports. Never had those team friendships.

Part of the reason I see open heart, when it finally got to me, as liberating and something to look forward to. I didn’t fear it.

Good point. My BAV was discovered at age 52 and feel this was the perfect time for me to find out about my condition. It was still in moderate AS and could be monitored. Earlier, and it would have been on my mind all my life about "when" I would need surgery and possibly affected life choices and sports. On the other hand, if I found out any later than this it could have been fatal. Although I was asymptomatic, I crossed the line into severe at age 53, as estimated by echo, but after the surgery 6 weeks later, the surgeon informed me that it was actually critical and showed me photos to back it up.

 

[pellicle]

Also, for those of you that found out later in life, you were able to enjoy over 50 years care free with respect to this condition. That’s something to be cherished. I know it’s harder sometimes when it comes out of nowhere.
...

seconded and well said my friend. I wish I was able to capture things so well in my expressions

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Good point. My BAV was discovered at age 52 and feel this was the perfect time for me to find out about my condition.

following on from Supermans post I feel what you write there is 100% the truth. I was diagnosed in about grade 3 and so just as I was getting into sports (I was getting good at sprints, doing well in "Nippers" which was about the only thing I had in common with my Dad. So as a result of the diagnosis of BAV and many tests I was taken out of all sports and had (quite unerstandably) a very protective mother who I naturally struggled against. Accordingly I missed out on the essential contact sports to harden bones, strengthen muscles and hone my reactions. I was mothballed (or perhaps cotton-wool-balled) until I got out of my surgery cycle by which time I was about 13.

I then had to set about understanding the differences in me vs everyone else, developing interests in sports was out of the question because I was so far behind. I took an interest in Gym and then less competitive sports (strangely including fencing which was 90% training) but as a result had a strong focus on developing my mind.

It took until my 20's before I was more or less like other 20 yo's

So I did not get that childhood in the same way (that is not to say I felt robbed, because I actually loved how I grew up being able to do things impossible today) and accordingly as I approach 60 do not have the same "investment" in strength that someone like yourself has.

It is always with a twinge of envy that I see strong fit 80 yearolds on the ski tracks and hiking trails, never having had a day of sickness in their lives. I see here many times the shock and anxiety that comes from never being prepared for the truth of what happens later in life.

Well ... Such is life

Best Wishes

 

[pekster11]

If I was going to return to playing soccer, it would be particular forms of the game.
Indoor 5-a-side with felt lined balls and no heading for example
I would never head a football on warfarin. You'd just be asking for trouble doing that

 

[treichert0312]

Wow this is a long recurring thread! I was considering extending my football/soccer career lol but the bruises just linger too long.
I had my soccer time with the bicuspid valve then with the pig valve, but now with mechanical valve I’ll stick to jogging/cycling & skiing. Works for me.