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Freddie (I'm back - had to go run rehearsal)
Our advice and the calculator are basically the same. It says hold 0 - 2 doses. Most of us that have been on Coumadin for a long time know that a 2 day hold for a 4.9 is outrageous and the calculator (and protocol) only suggests it if, for some strange reason, there is bleeding going on.

As Jim pointed out - you Dr. and the way she freaks out over an INR that is a point or 2 over your range is what is causing the problem.

Don't forget, some people here have a range of 3 - 4. Your doctor would probably have them live their life in the hospital so as to catch any horrible bleed as it starts ;)

It is extremely dangerous to think that going low and starting over again is a good plan. I would rather be 6.0 than 1.8. (And I've been both several times).

If you take 3 tonight and 3 tomorrow night, your test on Saturday should be lower. But for heaven's sake - do not let your doctor convince you to hold if it's over 3.

But after looking at your dose history - it looks like 5 mg/day (35/week) is your sweet spot.

Please tell your doctor that there can be as much as a .3 variance in any test. So if she's freaking over a 3.5 or 3.6 - it could very well be a 3.2 or 3.3. (and yes - a 3.8, or 3.9) She is micromanaging you into one heck of a yo yo.

She's talking about you seeing a "specialist". Please show her your weekly INR's and doses and tell her that she is the reason your INR is going all over the place. (I know you won't, but think about it. ;))
 
Karlynn, I was wondering where you went :)
And yes, I will show my doc my stats on the dosage if and when the time comes. This specialist is the pharmacist - so we will have to see.

So, 3mg was done tonight, another 3mg tomorrow, go for retest on Saturday find out the results and with the help from you and everyone we will take the next step to this mess.

I'm not going to speculate on Saturdays outcome, but I hope I can count on you to be there/here come Saturday afternoon.

Thank-you, Thank-you all
 
Freddie, So sorry that I have no advice for you as I freak out like you do and cannot understand this INR ups and downs either. But I can share with you the following:

Monday of last week my INR was 2.4. I should be between 2.5-3.5.

Calculator recommended I take half a mg extra for five nights!! my cardio recommended half a mg twice a week and I got upset as I like it to go up to 3. I followed his advice hoping to prove him wrong, but to my surprise this past Monday my INR went up to 3.1!!! only with the increase of only 1 mg, while calculator recommended 2.5mg.!!!! unless my INR went up to chinese food twice last week, but I mostly eat Suchi when I go!!!

I am not saying the calculator is wrong, but I am glad I did not follow it. I am anxious to see this coming Monday what my INR will be as I am on the same dosage as last week.,
 
Freddie, it doesn't matter why your dosage is changing. I took 70 mg/week for well over a year. Suddenly this spring my INR started doing strange things and it changed around for a while, now I am on 57.5 mg/week. Why? Who knows. It doesn't really matter, all that matters is that I am (mostly) in range. So, the moral of this is don't worry about why you need to change your dose, just do it if you need to, and again, always listen to the forum! :)
 
Freddie, So sorry that I have no advice for you as I freak out like you do and cannot understand this INR ups and downs either. But I can share with you the following:

Monday of last week my INR was 2.4. I should be between 2.5-3.5.

Calculator recommended I take half a mg extra for five nights!! my cardio recommended half a mg twice a week and I got upset as I like it to go up to 3. I followed his advice hoping to prove him wrong, but to my surprise this past Monday my INR went up to 3.1!!! only with the increase of only 1 mg, while calculator recommended 2.5mg.!!!! unless my INR went up to chinese food twice last week, but I mostly eat Suchi when I go!!!

I am not saying the calculator is wrong, but I am glad I did not follow it. I am anxious to see this coming Monday what my INR will be as I am on the same dosage as last week.,

For 2.4 I wouldn't have adjusted anything. I'd of waited for the next test.
 
I'd take her up on the offer to go see the specialist - it could be a win-win-win situation for you.

Win 1 - you get your INR management out of her hands,
win 2 - you may get lucky with the pharmacist and get someone that knows what theyare doing
win 3 - you'd get to keep her as your family physician without ruffling her feathers over INR management.

Roche (supplier of CoaguChek) trains pharmacists to sell machines, and lots of them are setting up anti-coag clinics - and are obviously into self-testing!
 
For 2.4 I wouldn't have adjusted anything. I'd of waited for the next test.

I was also wonderring why it was lowerred when the INR was 3.6

"June 11 INR 3.7 continued with 5mg (5mg X 7 days = 35mg)
June 18 INR 3.6 started to alternate 4mg and 5mg X 7 = 31mg
June 25 INR 2.1 went back to 5mg (my doing - didn't hear from the doc)
July 2 INR 2.0 - I got scared took 7mg on testing day and started (on my own) with 6mg
Today July 9 INR 4.9 "
 
Freddie, I am now back on the coaster with you! Went from 3.3 to 4.1...and the doc is holding a dose and cutting me back to 60mg from 65mg a week thereafter. AND I have to go back again in ONE week because I'm starting on lyrica for fibro! UGH! Sorry you are having the same problems hun.
 
I was also wondering why it was lowered when the INR was 3.6

I asked the same thing.
The fact is my doc pulls the panic button when her patience's go over their range.
At 3.6, I assumed that I would stay on the same dosage - NOT. The panic button was pulled and was given a speech about my doc's experience with bleeds blah, blah, blah.

So, any suggestions what beautiful greens will help to get me to 3.0 for tomorrow. Getting tired of eating cucumbers ;) with the skin on, yuck.

Colleen; lets hold hands and ride together okay? With any luck I might fall.
 
Freddie, I am now back on the coaster with you! Went from 3.3 to 4.1...and the doc is holding a dose and cutting me back to 60mg from 65mg a week thereafter. AND I have to go back again in ONE week because I'm starting on lyrica for fibro! UGH! Sorry you are having the same problems hun.

Colleen, your doc is another one who is over-reacting to an INR of 4.1
She wants you to HOLD a dose AND decrease your daily dose. DUMB:(
Tell your doc to pick one....not both.
 
...........

So, any suggestions what beautiful greens will help to get me to 3.0 for tomorrow. Getting tired of eating cucumbers ;) with the skin on, yuck.

Freddie, how about:

1- Zucchini or spinach omelette. Cut zucchin into very small little square/pieces (or sautee lots of spinach leaves) and mix with eggs or egg whites...healthy, fibrous, and thus filling too.

2- I love celantro and I add it to all kinds of foods...fresh on salad, or add at the end of a tomatoe base stew!

3- Hummus. I love hummus and when not in the mood to prepare it in blender with sesame seed oil and garlic and lemon juice, I just eat the chick peas sprinkled with some cumin, olive oil, and smashed garlic.

3- Fresh Gabbage salad!

Pick and choose.
 
Your doctor is crazy. What does she do with patients like me with a range of 3.0 to 4.0? Would she expecting me to bleed all over the place?

My all time high was 8.9 almost 4 years ago and apart from some little red spots on my arms and upper chest I had no ill effects at all and am still here to tell the tale.

My warfarin clinic gets a little upset if I am under range, so do I.
 
What is with all these Holding instructions for INR's in the 4's. Colleen - your doctor having you hold for a 4.1 is needless. If it were me - I'd just reduce my dose by a few mgs/week and test in a week.

Freddie dear, you are enabling your doctor by putting up with her freaking out over INR's that are a few points over range. She is not practicing her warfarin management in the 21st century and as long as you continue to not say anything to her she'll continue to make poor decisions - and that is not a good doctor. Not all doctors are good in all areas of medical practice.

Next time she gives the bleed talk - tell her you know someone who's been on the "stuff" for almost 18 years and has had INR's as high as 7.4 without any bleed incidence. I do not hold a dose for anything under 6. I don't cut my dose in half for anything under 5. Unless you have some other medical issues that put you in danger of bleeds at in-range INR's she needs to take a huge chill-pill.

Freddie, I know you like your doctor, but she is working for you- it is not your job to make sure she stays happy and likes you. If you continue to defer to her warfarin management, you'll continue to yo yo.
 
I asked the same thing.
The fact is my doc pulls the panic button when her patience's go over their range.
At 3.6, I assumed that I would stay on the same dosage - NOT. The panic button was pulled and was given a speech about my doc's experience with bleeds blah, blah, blah.

So, any suggestions what beautiful greens will help to get me to 3.0 for tomorrow. Getting tired of eating cucumbers ;) with the skin on, yuck.

Colleen; lets hold hands and ride together okay? With any luck I might fall.


Since she is so worried about bleeds that she lowers somones dose that is basically in range by 10%, I wonder how many of her patients have unnecessary clots or strokes because she put them too low instead of leaving them alone for 3.6
 
Freddie......

Karlynn certainly has a good point. If you are going to continue having her manage your coumadin, do you think you might like to have a chat with her and work out the fact you are becoming more educated about proper coumadin dosing than she is? You keep allowing her to yo-yo you and it is going to continue until you start speaking up.

Some of us are more assertive and confrontational than others and it is hard for some to 'speak up' to their docs but surely there is a gentle, polite, nice way you can say to her you do not agree with all of her coumadin advice. It will make your life (and probably many of her other coumadin patients) less stressful. Hopefully, she may decide to educate herself more fully re: coumadin.

What a huge favor you would have done her, yourself and her other patients.

Sorry for butting my big mouth into your business and being aggressive in my approach but it annoys me when medical professionals are giving poor advice/care.
 
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