Not doing surgery

[pellicle]

You seemed to like helping out there .

Mate, you probably don't understand ... he's not in America any more ...

 

[Unicusp]

What happened to your follow-up appt and TEE consultation? You seemed like you were progressing forward, then you fall back into a loop of thought with no progress toward addressing the issue.
How does one get fired from a volunteer job??
You're in beautiful Bangkok with a healthy portfolio. Spend some $ and find enjoyment.

 

[carolinemc]

What happened to your follow-up appt and TEE consultation? You seemed like you were progressing forward, then you fall back into a loop of thought with no progress toward addressing the issue.
How does one get fired from a volunteer job??
You're in beautiful Bangkok with a healthy portfolio. Spend some $ and find enjoyment.

He might be just a lurker and making things up. He has been back and forth on the subject of surgery and paying for surgery and bashing America since he has been in here.

 

[vitdoc]

If I wanted to off myself I wouldn’t want to die with heart failure. Miserable prolonged agony. Severe shortness of breath water retention with swollen legs inability to lie flat. Not a great way to go. Better to fix the valve and recalibrate.

 

[pellicle]

Better to fix the valve and recalibrate.

or from the most insane illogical position of madness: better to die in surgery having been put carefully to sleep with no discomfort.

The reality is however that the neurotic person will avoid the step beyond "lights out" because that indicates they accept the need to actually engage with life.



Understanding the mind and what causes us to do and think what we do is complex, but humans have been at it for a while now, and made some good progress (as in the above discourse on Jung and Nietzche) we have a lot of symbolism which has emerged in the process of trying to understand ourselves and our thoughts. For example the Serpent:

​

Historically, serpents and snakes represent fertility or a creative life force. As snakes shed their skin through sloughing, they are symbols of rebirth, transformation, immortality, and healing. The ouroboros is a symbol of eternity and continual renewal of life.​

 

[Squashplayer]

Very special 11 minutes and 32 seconds from Carl Jung. Highly recommended.

 

[Mister_James]

We know we will all die. One day. It is an inevitability. There is no way around it. There is never a good reason to embrace the unembraceable.
Some people think death is a gate way to something else. What if it is not?
You live life for yourself and others.
It does not matter whether you have family or not, you can help someone else, you can lift someone else.
If and when you believe you have given the best of yourself and there is nothing more to give, you can close the door on this life but fill out that donor card so your last act is still to lift someone else.
My two cents...

 

[Squashplayer]

Very thoughtful, insightful, and impressive two cents from Mister James!

 

[carolinemc]

We know we will all die. One day. It is an inevitability. There is no way around it. There is never a good reason to embrace the unembraceable.
Some people think death is a gate way to something else. What if it is not?
You live life for yourself and others.
It does not matter whether you have family or not, you can help someone else, you can lift someone else.
If and when you believe you have given the best of yourself and there is nothing more to give, you can close the door on this life but fill out that donor card so your last act is still to lift someone else.
My two cents...

I can't since I am Type 2 diabetic, organs no good for anyone since that diagnosis.

 

[dornole]

I also wanna know what about the gosh darn TEE. What happened to that?

 

[carolinemc]

I also wanna know what about the gosh darn TEE. What happened to that?

Talk to your Cardiologist, he/she should have the information.

 

[Teapotimus]

Anyone thought of not doing surgery ?

Yes, I have had this exact thought many times throughout the last couple of years. I was diagnosed with moderate/severe stenosis and regurgitation at 12, but was never informed.

At 30 I was re-diagnosed with severe stenosis, regurgitation and an ascending aortic aneurysm. Told during a consult with a surgeon I needed a replacement immediately. I'm now 32, still haven't done it. In fact I've increased my activity level significantly over the last 2 years, no symptoms.

Will I have surgery? Not sure. I have no support for recovery, and much lesser surgeries in the past have left me with lifelong consequences due to surgical error and predatory providers. Not excited about putting my life in the hands of an industry that has screwed me over multiple times in the past.

Not to mention the cost, even with good health insurance I estimate a cost of between $20000 and $30000 between out of pocket and missed wages.

Finally there's the elephant in the room regarding valve choice, and I don't like any of them. I was excited about the Ross earlier this year and consulted with Dr. El-Hamamsy in NY. However, I started reading this forum and followed many of the links to various studies that painted the Ross in a much worse light than the surgeons who perform the procedure. More or less turned my back on it as an option at this point, and cancelled my date with the surgeon.

Bit long-winded, but what I'm trying to say is yes, I have thought about not having surgery and am currently on that path.

 

[Chuck C]

Bit long-winded, but what I'm trying to say is yes, I have thought about not having surgery and am currently on that path.

That's unfortunate, because the alternative to surgery is death. Aortic valve surgery has a remarkably high survival rate.

BTW. You responded to Newarrior's post. He is very much of the mindset to get surgery when his cardiologists and surgeons tell him that it is time for surgery.

I would encourage you to take a look at this graph representing the survival rate of patients, once they have severe aortic stenosis with symptoms. It drops off a cliff without surgical intervention, with average survival of 2 to 5 years, depending on the symptoms. This should be contrasted with the surgical survival rate for a young person as yourself, which is close to 99% and will give you a fairly normal life expectancy.

If your surgeon is telling you that you need surgery, I would encourage you to get a second and even a third opinion. But, if they all agree that you need surgery, you should listen to them.

 

[Teapotimus]

That's unfortunate, because the alternative to surgery is death. Aortic valve surgery has a remarkably high survival rate.

BTW. You responded to Newarrior's post. He is very much of the mindset to get surgery when his cardiologists and surgeons tell him that it is time for surgery.

I would encourage you to take a look at this graph representing the survival rate of patients, once they have severe aortic stenosis with symptoms. It drops off a cliff without surgical intervention, with average survival of 2 to 5 years, depending on the symptoms. This should be contrasted with the surgical survival rate for a young person as yourself, which is close to 99% and will give you a fairly normal life expectancy.

View attachment 888957

If your surgeon is telling you that you need surgery, I would encourage you to get a second and even a third opinion. But, if they all agree that you need surgery, you should listen to them.

I don't actually have a surgeon, just had a consult with the head of cardiothoracic surgery at a large hospital near me a couple years ago. His plan was to put in a mechanical valve with expectation it would need to be replaced in 15-20 years, at which point a bio valve would be more appropriate.

Pretty insane considering everything I've learned in the meantime, makes me wonder if he was actually a qualified surgeon.

I've since gotten another opinion at the "top rated" hospital in my state. However, they can't even get echocardiography right, so who knows. One cardiologist says severe dilation of the left ventricle the other says completely normal. So who knows, but I'm not stranger the incompetence of the medical industry.

Truth be told I'm just tired of chasing appointments and getting absurd or conflicting opinions from the "experts". Just don't have any interest in the surgery or continuing to chase opinions. Not to mention there's no good option for me, mechanical valve is a no, Ross is a no, and how many procedures would I be looking at with a bio valve in my 30s? 4+?

 

[pellicle]

Hi Teapot

Bit long-winded, but what I'm trying to say is yes, I have thought about not having surgery and am currently on that path.

Bravo, this is an incredibly brave and honest path you are choosing. I don't know if you'll have the commitment to see it through, but indeed death happens to us all. It takes strength to not be pushed into some sort of inferior and expensive treatment which is not perfect. It takes conviction and resolve to follow the one true path that God has set before you.

I see that you are following the Bertrand Russell philosophy of onus of proof (and those medical people have proven to you they can not be trusted). Perhaps also some of Carl Jung in there too (in confronting God), it takes a lot of strength to resist the temptations of man and his medicine. I take my hat off to you.

I wonder if you've discussed this with your relatives and how they will be impacted by this, if you have none then that will make it easier to refuse the artificial treatments and the confusing choices of possible paths for life and take the pure certainty of death. Camus would be proud of your confrontation of The Absurd and facing life on your own terms.

I wonder also if you are influenced by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross and wanting to document your own stages of the grief of the loss of your life? I mean she (like you) was unable to actually genuinely write about the losses one feels in death because while she was writing she was not dead. Her grief was imagined.

As you mentioned costs, and out of pocket expenses, I think you have some excellent opportunities to turn this process into quite a profitable one. You could start a vlog on youtube and gain quite a many followers, the subscriptions and monetisation of that (if done correctly) could net you quite an amount. I'd say that by the time you're on your death bed, and suffering enormously, gasping for breath you could pull in millions from health insurance company advertising alone.

You could do guest discussions with prominent surgeons, be the antithesis of Adam Pick and build up quite a business from this. My friend I believe the world will be your oyster if you manage this death right. The thing is however you can't pull out, you can't just weaken, you have to follow your moral choice right to the end. It will be worth it, trust me.

If there's anything I can do to help, please reach out.

Best Wishes

 

[Teapotimus]

The thing is however you can't pull out, you can't just weaken, you have to follow your moral choice right to the end. It will be worth it, trust me.

Thank you, I don't intend too.

Lot of words by the way, I've read a number of threads on this forum, I know you think very highly of yourself, truly the plenipotentiary of valve replacement surgery.

By the way, your obsession with Adam Pick is creepy, I noticed you slandering him with your Plaster Saint speak fairly often recently, it's very strange.

 

[pellicle]

Thank you, I don't intend too.

Good
You seem pretty fond of yourself too, for one who is contemplating suicide. Perhaps you aren't, perhaps your intentions are nothing like what you are saying (or even who you announce you are).

I hope you have a Merry Christmas

 

[Teapotimus]

You seem pretty fond of yourself too, for one who is contemplating suicide.

This doesn't make any sense. I'll assume you typed that with your forehead and blunt force, would explain the oxymoron.

Anyway, blocked as I'm sure you'll do as well. Not a huge fan of self righteous narcissistic whited sepulchres.

Happy Holidays

 

[jeffp]

“sepulchre” Haven’t heard that word in quite a while. More appropriate for Easter than Christmas. Anyway, Tea pot, we all wish you the best, whatever direction of choice fate takes you in.

 

[Lucker]

I'll just say that death on the operating table or even later in a hospital after a failed surgery is much easier. One famous soviet heart surgeon whose book I've read thought so, and it appears reasonable.