Medtronic B.S.

[RCB]

This is where the "Nightmare of warfarin" comes from!
See pages 14 and 15:

http://www.medtronic.com/cardsurgery/downloads/200502161EN.pdf

 

[Magnus]

Alcoholic Beverages Alcohol can change the way an anticoagulant works. Do not drink alcohol while taking anticoagulant medications.

Bwahahaha. Morons.

I will drink as much and as often as I want to, thank you very much.

I also particularly enjoyed these bits:

? Use only a soft toothbrush and floss very gently
? Use an electric razor instead of a blade

Some factors can affect your anticoagulant medication levels. These are:
? Irregular eating habits
? Increase or decrease in your normal daily activities
? Stress

 

[MikeHeim]

Ummm, I'm trying to find the inaccuracies. Please point them out. The notes about flossing, shaving, and vitamin K are pretty silly, but pretty much everything else in this pamphlet sounds a lot like what is discussed on this site virtually every day.

 

[Natanni]

Nathan uses a razor blade, flosses extremely well as dental hygiene is especially important in post endocarditis patients. I buy whatever tooth brush is on sale. He also does every other dangerous motorized activity known to man while anticoagulated. Truth be told, the Harley will be for sale shortly. While he doesn't mind wearing a helmet snowmobiling or ATVing, he can't get used to it on the Fatboy.


He does try not to skip meals as I thought I remembered Al saying that if you don't eat, your INR will go up (I MAY have that backwards). As for stress, for some crazy reason, it doesn't seem to affect Nathan's INR yet. I didn't read the link however, just Magnus's highlights.

 

[Ross]

I can only sight these:

You will need to restrict your intake of foods containing
Vitamin K.

Special care should be taken when you shave and when
brushing and flossing your teeth:
• Use only a soft toothbrush and floss very gently
• Use an electric razor instead of a blade

Now you know full well this was not written by someone taking Coumadin!

Apparently, one or all of these publications need some correction:

References Used in this Guide
1. Heart Disease and Stroke Statistics—2004 Update,
American Heart Association
2. Heart Center Online
(http://www.heartcenteronline.com)
3. WebMDHealth® (http://my.webmd.com)
4. E-Medicine (http://master.emedicine.com/ped)
5. eHealthForum (http://ehealthforum.com/)
6. Dorland’s Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 29th Edition.
7. Am Heart J. 1994 Jun;127(6):1559-1562.
8. STS Patient Information

 

[Ross]

Nathan uses a razor blade, flosses extremely well as dental hygiene is especially important in post endocarditis patients. I buy whatever tooth brush is on sale. He also does every other dangerous motorized activity known to man while anticoagulated. Truth be told, the Harley will be for sale shortly. While he doesn't mind wearing a helmet snowmobiling or ATVing, he can't get used to it on the Fatboy.


He does try not to skip meals as I thought I remembered Al saying that if you don't eat, your INR will go up (I MAY have that backwards). As for stress, for some crazy reason, it doesn't seem to affect Nathan's INR yet. I didn't read the link however, just Magnus's highlights.

Ah mom, let dad be Evil Knievel if he wants too. We men have to have something to make us feel, umm, adrenaline rushed.

 

[Georgia]

Am I correct that your intake of calcium will NOT affect the life of your tissue valve??? I note that little pearl of wisdom in that ever-so-helpful brochure.

GAACK

 

[Karlynn]

Ummm, I'm trying to find the inaccuracies. Please point them out. The notes about flossing, shaving, and vitamin K are pretty silly, but pretty much everything else in this pamphlet sounds a lot like what is discussed on this site virtually every day.

The flossing and shaving was highly inaccurate. If they were going to put that, they might have gone full-on and said to never use sharp knives, or chainsaws, etc. etc.

If flossing is a danger, I should have bled to death from my dental appointment last Monday. That hygenist really scraped away on my teeth.

I think we have our knickers a bit in a bunch because we hear inaccuracies from people all the time, but our hopes are dashed when we see an "official" pamphlet that still promotes myth. (And uses the term "Blood thinner" - that drives me a bit batty.)

Now I need to go fix my Rum and Diet Coke!

 

[RCB]

Inaccuracies? How about falsehoods!

Inaccuracies? How about falsehoods!

Ummm, I'm trying to find the inaccuracies. Please point them out. The notes about flossing, shaving, and vitamin K are pretty silly, but pretty much everything else in this pamphlet sounds a lot like what is discussed on this site virtually every day.

Let me point out some false statements!

1. You will need to restrict your intake of foods containing Vitamin K.
False! You need not restrict Vitamin K.

2. Do not drink alcohol while taking anticoagulant medications.
False! Many people on ACT drink alcohol as evidenced on this sight.

3. Report any falls, blows to the body or
head, or other injuries to your doctor immediately.
This is ridiculous; people would be on the phone all the time for no good reason.

4. ? Use an electric razor instead of a blade.
Really- do I have to explain this one!

There are other misleading statements and statements that that apply to tissue valves, normal valve and even repaired valves, not just mech. valves as this text would have a reader believe. I would be glad to point them out, but there is a limit to how much spoon
feeding I?m willing to do.

 

[Magnus]

It's also lovely how they list "Death" as "possible complications from valve surgery". No ****, Captain Obvious! Thank you for pointing that out for us...

 

[mntbiker]

Although I agree that many of these things such as shaving with an electric razor are a bit ridiculous (was actually told this by an internist just before my surgery when it was 90% certain I would walk out with a mechanical valve) you have to realize that they are approaching it from a point of liability. If you have a new patient who hasn't taken the time to be informed and they go out 3 months after surgery and pig out in fresh spinach every day 2 times a day who will they balme when their INR is out of range or worse yet if something happens? Most of us can also agree that putting a warning on silicant stating it is not for consumption or a hair dryer is not to be used in the tub are rather ridiculous as well but still they do it.

The problem isn't the medical companies it is living in an overly litigous society where so many people feel the easiest way to get rich is to sue someone.

Please commence with tearing my statements apart.

 

[Ross]

O.K. I will part of it.

You wanna each spinich two times a day, go ahead, but your going to be increasing your dose of Coumadin to meet that diet.

 

[Granbonny]

Just down 2 16oz. Miller lite beers.. a few hours ago, after spending 8 hours with age 13 year old doing the thing that boys love to do..waterpark, River rocking....ect..took my coumadin 2 hours late..and I will bet it is still in range. Been there for the last 3 tests. Last weekend, even worse.. got a nice bump on shin from Granddaughter..(No bruise)..and I am age 66. Bonnie

 

[Karlynn]

Although I agree that many of these things such as shaving with an electric razor are a bit ridiculous (was actually told this by an internist just before my surgery when it was 90% certain I would walk out with a mechanical valve) you have to realize that they are approaching it from a point of liability....Please commence with tearing my statements apart.

Well, since you asked us to....

Actually, in this age of every med and drug company having to CYA, I can buy your argument in theory. But if they were really stating such things for the sake of liability, then the list needs to be much much longer and say not to take it while using a hairdryer near a bathtub.

 

[geebee]

It is one thing to mention possibilities to avoid the rath of those "sue-happy" attorneys out there and an entirely different thing to continue spewing untruths based on old beliefs. This is especially wrong when it affects a person's decision on what type of heart valve to receive. When someone reads this type of information they can be led to believe that coumadin will truly change their way of life and cause them to choose a path that will lead to additional surgeries. Once again, I am NOT saying choosing a tissue valve is the wrong decision but that choice may be questionable when it is based solely on such untruths.

 

[Natanni]

Although I agree that many of these things such as shaving with an electric razor are a bit ridiculous (was actually told this by an internist just before my surgery when it was 90% certain I would walk out with a mechanical valve) you have to realize that they are approaching it from a point of liability. If you have a new patient who hasn't taken the time to be informed and they go out 3 months after surgery and pig out in fresh spinach every day 2 times a day who will they balme when their INR is out of range or worse yet if something happens? Most of us can also agree that putting a warning on silicant stating it is not for consumption or a hair dryer is not to be used in the tub are rather ridiculous as well but still they do it.

Anticoagulation danger needs to be spelled out, but having experienced this from the personal view point of my husband, I think it is far more important (and safer) to spell out that absolute thruth. The two people Nathan knows personally (had their valves replaced at about the same time) were given all the some old coumadin info from the largest hosptials on Duluth MN. NO vit K, absolutely NONE. Absolutely NO home testing. And these poor fellows have yet to see a stable INR. Maybe it is their own unique physiology and liver functions, maybe not. They were so shocked to hear Nathan has all his salads, has beer, etc. I can't say that I am confident with Nathan's anticoagulation handling, following the trends of eating K often and regular, drinking a couple of beers a couple times a week, but so far, he has been alot more stable than the people that follow the "old rules"....but I will give you my firm opinion when he is 65 and still no propblems Nathan feels that having more Vit K running through his system is safe than those that never touch the stuff...and get some in some hidden form at some point...Bottom line, there needs to be more updated education...lawsuits aside. Go ahead and eat your spinich a few times a week, but DO NOT go and all of a sudden dump a garden into your stomach.

 

[lance]

Blood Thinners

Blood Thinners

Actually, overall I think it is a fairly informative although basic. It's certainly more informative (inaccuries included) than anything I was told before or after I received my mechanical by anyone in the medical field.

If the inaccuracies cause a patient to question the information then I think the pamphlet provided a service. Considering an acquaintance of mine died because of "purple toes" I'm glad that complication was brought to the fore.

I did laugh over the term 'blood thinners" though.

After all if a patient thinks they could bleed to death from a shaving nick or from consuming huge amounts of Vit K (unless suicide is intended) then I think they would have the sense to question the info they have been provided with via that pamphlet.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

In 1951 a Navy recruit who must have decided that he did not want to go to Korea ate a pound of warfarin (it was being used in bulk for rat poison) and he recovered with no ill effects. Now he probably should have avoided a blade razor!!!!

 

[Ross]

After further reading, I have a beef with this too:

Reasons for Choosing a Mechanical Valve
___ I’m 65 years old or younger
___ I’m not pregnant and I’m not trying to become
pregnant.
___ I can tolerate daily anticoagulant medication for life
___ I don’t have a high-risk occupation
___ I don’t participate in high-risk sports
Reasons for Choosing a Tissue Valve
___ I am 65 years or older
___ I’m a woman of childbearing age
___ I’m pregnant
___ I lead an active lifestyle and participate in
high-risk sports
___ I can’t tolerate daily anticoagulant medication for life

 

[traumahob]

This is where the "Nightmare of warfarin" comes from!
See pages 14 and 15:

http://www.medtronic.com/cardsurgery/downloads/200502161EN.pdf

Part of the issue is they are not just referring to Coumadin but multiple forms of anticoagulant therapy. Different anticoaulants act on separate parts of the clotting cascade, thus the need for Coumadin and Aspirin. This brochure may also include some CYA from their legal department. Deb