Life expectancy with or without

[krosson62]

I have an artificial mitral valve. Does any one know the life expectancy with out taking warfarin as compared to taking warfarin daily?

 

[dick0236]

I have an artificial mitral valve. Does any one know the life expectancy with out taking warfarin as compared to taking warfarin daily?

The problem is not how long you will live, but how long it will be before you have a stroke due to a clot that causes a stroke (which could be worse than death). Warfarin is an anti-coagulant that is intended to reduce blood clotting due to the mechanical valve.......it plays little, if any, role in how long you may, or may not, live. It would be kinda like playing "Russian roulette" with a six-shot revolver......eventually you will lose.

 

[krosson62]

Ok how long will it take till a stroke

 

[pellicle]

Ok how long will it take till a stroke

it depends ... buy why would you want a stroke?

https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/how-long-can-you-go-without-it.887951/
if you're worried about warfarin somehow reducing your life span the evidence shows that as we age we need to be on something like that anyway (unless you want to die or have a stroke earlier).

Me, I prefer warfarin because > 50 years of good data makes it

(*forgive me posting Kylie)

 

[Superman]

Thing about statistics is that they just tell us averages, not specific cases. Some have gone event free for years without warfarin. Someone else might have a stroke in a week. On average, not taking it is more likely to result in a negative outcome than taking and testing as prescribed.

Searching for peer reviewed studies will do better than us though. You’re basically asking the forum to search for the data for you.

I guess I’m curious as to why you want to know. Is taking warfarin that unpleasant that you’d rather chance it?

 

[pellicle]

Thing about statistics is that they just tell us averages, not specific cases

what's sad is that you have to even say that (and I know you probably do)

...peer reviewed studies ...

were actually cited in that post I linked to above...

Is taking warfarin that unpleasant that you’d rather chance it?

you know it even tastes like rat poison ...

however I'm not a doctor.

 

[dick0236]

Ok how long will it take till a stroke

It only took about 4-5 days w/o warfarin to have my stroke at age 38. It caused me to go half-blind and that blindness has never recovered........still as blind today, at 86, as I was when it happened in 1976. BTW, I have missed very, very few warfarin pills since then.....and have had NO MORE strokes

 

[tom in MO]

I have an artificial mitral valve. Does any one know the life expectancy with out taking warfarin as compared to taking warfarin daily?

That's a number no researcher is willing to discover. The experiment would involve asking a group of mitral valve recipients to stop taking warfarin to see how many would stroke and die and how long it took.

The need for warfarin was determined when valve replacement was new technology. One of the biggest post-op complications was stroke and that went away with anticoagulation therapy.

 

[carolinemc]

The problem is not how long you will live, but how long it will be before you have a stroke due to a clot that causes a stroke (which could be worse than death). Warfarin is an anti-coagulant that is intended to reduce blood clotting due to the mechanical valve.......it plays little, if any, role in how long you may, or may not, live. It would be kinda like playing "Russian roulette" with a six-shot revolver......eventually you will lose.

I am an example of when you do not take warfarin. I was off of warfarin for three months due to job loss and losing health insurance. I took a very big risk and suffered an eye stroke, compounded also by the fact of being type 2 Diabetic. I was lucky at that time. Never risk your life by testing the water. Take it from me, it is not feasible to do without the warfarin even two weeks, much less the rest of your life if you have had a valve replacement and need to take the blood thinner. Your life depends on taking it every day. Like I also have to take Metformin every day. I have a neighbor who became diabetic from a high of 800 BG. She is on both metformin and insulin. Many times, your life depends on you caring for yourself and taking maintenance drugs. I agree with you, for it is luck if nothing happens, but that is not a guarantee something won't happen if we skip the medications.

 

[carolinemc]

That's a number no researcher is willing to discover. The experiment would involve asking a group of mitral valve recipients to stop taking warfarin to see how many would stroke and die and how long it took.

The need for warfarin was determined when valve replacement was new technology. One of the biggest post-op complications was stroke and that went away with anticoagulation therapy.

I may have had a eye stroke due to not taking Warfarin for three months. And being Type 2 Diabetic did not help. I would never stop taking it so it can possible prevent another stroke, eye stroke or regular stroke. Never take that chance. I was lucky when I had my eye stroke. I will never know if it was being without warfarin or being diabetic or both. But that the eye stroke happened taught me to never take chances like that again. And it was in my left eye. Vision blurred. May never correct itself.

 

[carolinemc]

Ok how long will it take till a stroke

Not very long. I went three months and had an eye stroke in my left eye. Not a nice thing, Blurred vision. Was lucky the clot did not go any further. But it was a short period of time.

 

[sharky7]

Thing about statistics is that they just tell us averages, not specific cases. Some have gone event free for years without warfarin. Someone else might have a stroke in a week. On average, not taking it is more likely to result in a negative outcome than taking and testing as prescribed.

Searching for peer reviewed studies will do better than us though. You’re basically asking the forum to search for the data for you.

I guess I’m curious as to why you want to know. Is taking warfarin that unpleasant that you’d rather chance it?

For sure, not worth taking the chance, and if ya not having money problems, them for sure take your meds, there is no question about it. And strokes are fast, and come without any warnings as far as I know! And as Superman has stated, the risks of taking it way out weigh the risks of not taking it, i think and agree with. I think that i said that right, point i am making is everyone that needs it, should by all means take it! And for me, i dont think there should be exceptions to this, if you dont have money for ya meds, then i have no problem in help sharing the cost, taxes, for others that have less resource's to be able to pay for it, the SENIORS, and those Single moms and dads that do not have support from others! I dont think is the HUMAN thing to do to allow, like in the USA, people to die because they do not have the money for medicine, just something about that bothers me, alot!!! I am sure there may be at least a few that do not agree with that, but that is what i think.

 

[vitdoc]

There are two major issues that may occur without proper anti coagulation when there is a mechanical valve in place. First clots may form on the valve surfaces and break off and go down the line until they lodge in a vessel somewhere. So strokes, retinal artery occlusions, and distal artery blockages may occur. NOT GOOD.
The second issue is clots form on the valve and may impede the motion of the moving parts possibly causing valve failure. NOT GOOD
I don't think it is likely that anyone would do a study comparing anti coagulation vs normal coagulation so the exact statistics are not well known. But needless to say the incidence of these events is far lower with anti coagulation.

There has been a fair amount of talk about retinal vascular occlusions and Migraine so I will add a bit about these two issues.

I personally have had at least 3 or 4 temporary retinal vascular occlusions that cleared after 10 or so minutes. These occur in one eye and usually block either the superior or inferior visual field in a horizontal pattern of blockage. They scared the **** out of me but fortunately they all were temporary. Migraine incidentally may give temporary visual loss but these generally are central circular blockages lasting about 20 minutes and are BILATERAL seen in both eye's visual fields. This is in contradistinction to the unilateral retinal artery blockages.
If the blockage does not clear then the area of obstruction in the retinal occlusion is relatively permanent. Migraine essentially always clears except in rare cases of strokes with Migraine. The visual symptoms with Migraine are generated by the brain hence the bilateral nature of the visual changes. Often there may be no headache. The "scintillating" scotoma is the most common issue with Migraine being a sort of flashing zig-zag lighting show going on for 10-20 minutes.
LIfe is tough enough. Don't stop the anti coagulation.
I am a retinal surgeon so I see this stuff all of the time.

 

[Dodgy Ticker]

However unpleasant it might be to take a drug that keeps you alive, it simply MUST be better than NOT being alive. Simple calculation.

And if, shudder the thought, your query is finance-related, then I would suggest that you move to a country where you don't have to mortgage yourself to get your meds.

SERIOUSLY - You only have one life. Why chance it?

 

[pellicle]

However unpleasant it might be to take a drug that keeps you alive, it simply MUST be better than NOT being alive. Simple calculation.

I think you're missing an important alternative. Being alive, but having had a stroke being unable to do more than signal that you've shat your pants and need a change (to the nursing home staff).

But IMO one would be ...

 

[slipkid]

Speaking of migraines I just had one today.

Came on at start of my day, right when walking to my workstation at about 7pm (which is my 7am).

Since when I have migraines bright lights and loud noises are especially tortuous and where I work is a ****** factory from hell with literally hundreds of brighter than a thousand suns flourescent lights hanging from the ceiling and an unimaginable cacophony of noise with alarms of all frequencies going off, clatterings, clankings, clunkings, bangings, whooshings, scrapings, grinding noises, thumps, scrapings, hummings, people yelling,forklift trucks ramblings & backup sirens, and a million other sounds (all audible even through earplugs combining to make a constant crushing cacophony for the entire 12 hours) I used to curse my luck when a migraine struck at work, but now - having had migraines of course also on my days off when I am trying to relax or do something - I actually prefer having them at work where I am already thoroughly miserable such that added misery doesn't matter to me as much as having a day off ruined.

Wow - was that one long runon sentence? Cool.

Ok time to go to sleep now to do it all over again tomorrow (er that means tonight but it is my tomorrow),..

 

[carolinemc]

There are two major issues that may occur without proper anti coagulation when there is a mechanical valve in place. First clots may form on the valve surfaces and break off and go down the line until they lodge in a vessel somewhere. So strokes, retinal artery occlusions, and distal artery blockages may occur. NOT GOOD.
The second issue is clots form on the valve and may impede the motion of the moving parts possibly causing valve failure. NOT GOOD
I don't think it is likely that anyone would do a study comparing anti coagulation vs normal coagulation so the exact statistics are not well known. But needless to say the incidence of these events is far lower with anti coagulation.

There has been a fair amount of talk about retinal vascular occlusions and Migraine so I will add a bit about these two issues.

I personally have had at least 3 or 4 temporary retinal vascular occlusions that cleared after 10 or so minutes. These occur in one eye and usually block either the superior or inferior visual field in a horizontal pattern of blockage. They scared the **** out of me but fortunately they all were temporary. Migraine incidentally may give temporary visual loss but these generally are central circular blockages lasting about 20 minutes and are BILATERAL seen in both eye's visual fields. This is in contradistinction to the unilateral retinal artery blockages.
If the blockage does not clear then the area of obstruction in the retinal occlusion is relatively permanent. Migraine essentially always clears except in rare cases of strokes with Migraine. The visual symptoms with Migraine are generated by the brain hence the bilateral nature of the visual changes. Often there may be no headache. The "scintillating" scotoma is the most common issue with Migraine being a sort of flashing zig-zag lighting show going on for 10-20 minutes.
LIfe is tough enough. Don't stop the anti coagulation.
I am a retinal surgeon so I see this stuff all of the time.

Clots can form anywhere, in the legs, arms and elsewhere and when the clot loosens, chances are you will have a stroke, mini stroke, or eye stroke.

 

[Chuck C]

Along these same lines, I have a realistic question that perhaps folks can help me with.

What would be my life expectancy if I decided to take up sky diving and did it 3x per day? Also, I don’t want to bother with a back up parachute- too time consuming to pack, just the primary one, so please factor that into your calculation.

Additionally, I’m thinking of doing bungee jumping a few times per week as well, say 5x. I should add that the crew of the local bungee jump company, you know, the folks that are supposed to make sure that your harness is secure, and the bungy rope is property tied down, are known to come in to work stoned every day. Hey, it's legal now.

As well, I’m considering taking a new job in which I would scuba dive and photograph underwater Elephant Seal activity at Ano Nuevo State Park, CA, which is notorious for being a feeding zone for Great White Sharks. In your calculations, please provide for my life expectancy if I did the photography during breeding season vs other times of the year.

 

[Chuck C]

On a serious note, I really hope that you are not considering going off of warfarin. To answer your question, you would have a much shorter life expectancy than if you took warfarin, but it would be hard to estimate how much shorter your life expectancy would be. As others have mentioned, there are a few cases of individuals who go many years without an incident. Those are the extreme outliers statistically. I suggest you give a complete read to the link that Pellicle provided above, the third response to your original post- lots of good data there on the subject of holding warfarin.

It ishould also be mentioned that risk of thrombosis is much higher for you in that you have a mechanical mitral valve than it would be with a mechanical aortic valve, which is why the target INR for mechanical mitral valves is typically higher than that for those with mechanical aortic valve prosthesis. See below quote and link. All the more reason for you not to go off of your warfarin. If you do decide to go off of it, the exact answer to your question may never be known by you, but might very well be known to your surviving family members as they mourn you.

" Similarly for haemodynamic reasons, mitral PVT is 2–3 times more frequent than thrombosis of an aortic prosthesis. Haemodynamic status can also favour thrombosis, particularly in conditions of low flow or reduced cardiac output. Haemostatic factors involve the adequacy of anticoagulant treatment. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/p...itral,the adequacy of anticoagulant treatment.

 

[Dodgy Ticker]

Along these same lines, I have a realistic question that perhaps folks can help me with.

What would be my life expectancy if I decided to take up sky diving and did it 3x per day? Also, I don’t want to bother with a back up parachute- too time consuming to pack, just the primary one, so please factor that into your calculation.

Additionally, I’m thinking of doing bungee jumping a few times per week as well, say 5x. I should add that the crew of the local bungee jump company, you know, the folks that are supposed to make sure that your harness is secure, and the bungy rope is property tied down, are known to come in to work stoned every day. Hey, it's legal now.

I STRONGLY recommend standing in front of an in-coming train (any type will do, so long as its not a toy) and then squeeking before you go "SPLAT!" (or it might be "CRUNCH!"). Make sure someone is there to photograph you too - it would be a wasted moment if you don't.