invoice has arrived

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Actually, westie, we need people like you to come to the US to tell your story. There are lots of people here who think that universal health care is the way to go. They don't realize that quality suffers and the best doctors go private.
 
Costs

Costs

If you got a total AVR surgery bill in the neighborhood of $47,000.00, I'd say that isn't bad. The cost issues associated with the surgery were a major concern for my wife and me as we weren't sure how much our lousy insurance company would pay. We figured if the insurance didn't come through, we'd just make payments.

In the end, we did pay a pretty good chunk out of pocket, but our insurance covered the rest. Based upon what I've heard it's not uncommon to have bills totaling in the range of $100,000.00-$200,000.00+ in the U.S.

The main thing to remember is that cost should be a minor consideration. It's much more important to get the needed surgery and worry about how to pay for it later.

-Philip
 
Im 4 weeks post-op and the other day we looked on our insurance site to see what the total damage was. I had an AVR with an On-X valve and it looks like the dust is going to settle around 130K. Our insurance should be 100% after about $1100.00 out of pocket. Waiting for the dust to settle on the billing end and then see what the Cleveland Clinic sends us.

But like others have said, I wouldn't have done anything different, I would have tried to negotiate a payment plan, even if it meant treating it like a mortgage payment. I'd much rather be here and be cash poor than not be here !
 
Philip B said:
If you got a total AVR surgery bill in the neighborhood of $47,000.00, I'd say that isn't bad. The cost issues associated with the surgery were a major concern for my wife and me as we weren't sure how much our lousy insurance company would pay. We figured if the insurance didn't come through, we'd just make payments.


-Philip

I was thinking the same thing, Philip B, that $47,000 was quite moderate as compared to most of the costs we see mentioned it costing at various U.S. hospitals. Then I reread his post and see this is what he wrote:

yesterday i got the invoice, the actual charge has escalated to nz$ 47,000, oh dear! i have asked for clarification of why it varies so much from the estimate but i know in advance i will end up having to pay it all.

nz $47,000 ...... I don't know the conversion rate to U.S. dollars but am interested. Think I'll see if I can find a U.S $ vs. nz $ conversation chart.
 
Jkm7 - as of today, 47,000 NZ dollars = 37,373.67 US dollars. So it's an even better deal in comparison. That having been said, it's still a lot of money to have to pay.
 
In my case, my heart surgery was completely unexpected. On December 9th I felt a 'weird fluttery feeling' in my left carotid artery after an unusually long series of PVCs (previously my cardiologist had said they were benign manifestations of my mild mitral valve prolapse). By December 11th it was obviously my heart, but I was already on 10 liters/min oxygen and in cardiogenic shock. The first ER visit was about $850 (12/9). The second was also about $850 (12/10), followed by admission to the hospital for 'atypical pneumonia.' The expenses shot up when I went to ICU by early 12/11, and had to have cardiologists and lots of other people. That part came out to about $12,000, about $10,000 of which was paid for by my insurance ($2000 deductible).
Then the big money... I was in critical condition (flail mitral valve with pulmonary edema, congestive heart failure, ARDS {acute respiratory distress syndrome}, and general cardiogenic shock), but aggressive diuresis stabilized me for the $15,000 life flight from St. Luke's of Twin Falls to St. Luke's of Boise--just this week my insurance paid for the entire ambulance service--whew! Thank God.
I was so critical by the time I got to Boise the surgeon decided that I needed surgery within the hour, and did the TEE only 20 minutes after I arrived, just as my wife got there. I was very briefly awakened for prayer with a pastor, then put back under. Twenty minutes later Dr. Huerd made the first incision, and fixed the flail posterior leaflet. That cost was right about $54,000, and I was so relieved and amazed that my co-pay for the entire operation was $418! The surgeons' fees were about $16,000 in addition. Lots of prayer and excellent ICU people helped me recover quickly enough to go home 8 days after surgery.
Since my surgery was in December, most of my follow-up stuff is during a new deductible cycle, so I've paid about $1100 so far this year (two echocardiograms, three visits to cardiologist, post cardiac depression counseling sessions, etc.) I supposedly owe about $1500 more, but some is left over balances from last year's deductible period during my first local hospital admission. At least this year's deductible is already out of the way...
Total out of pocket is about $5000, and total expense, mostly covered by insurance, was about $100,000.
Due to my perilous condition at the start of all of this, estimates for my care ranged up to $200,000, but my rapid recovery (by the grace of God), kept expenses and hospital time down considerably.


An important note: I religiously observed the warnings of my post surgical instructions. I didn't lift more than 10 lbs. for the first 6 weeks, didn't drive for 4 weeks, even at 15 weeks I didn't attempt much heavy lifting, and no across the chest pulling. I braced my chest for every cough, and carefully controlled my sneezing by either stopping the sneezes or (later) more firmly bracing my chest. These precautions have paid great dividends. I can now carry both children (boy, 70 lbs.; girl, 40 lbs.) at the same time down the stairs, two 5 gallon buckets of water carried to my chickens about 100 feet from the faucet, and repair about 60 feet of chain link fence that required lots of pulling and unbending lots of twisted wire. Recently I have even been able to do a few push-ups and was able to hang from monkey bars full weight for the first time without significant pain. Today I was finally able to put away the Christmas tree and Christmas decorations and ornaments boxes on high shelves over my head without any problems.
Summary: Don't over do it! Treat your sternotomy like a broken bone, and baby it while it heals the same way. Then when the bone knits, go for it--but incrementally. Now I think that I'll be able to clean my chicken houses (yes, shoveling heavy stuff into a wheelbarrow), and mowing a lawn while ducking fruit trees with low branches in the very near future--and not worry about sternum pain getting in the way.


Chris
 
Gusdog,

Thanks for the conversation. I really was interested. I agree that is a lot of money but by the prices most of us in the U.S. are seeing, it is considerably lower. I would not want to pay it though. :)




Pairodocs.... That is an amazing odyssey you endured and it is so wonderful to hear you made such a fabulous recovery. I am sure you are extremely grateful. Thank you for sharing that with us. It certainly gives us the hope to know 'there is always hope'. Keep up with your amazing recovery. Good advice about listening to doctor's instructions. I am just over four weeks out from my surgery and have been diligent about the ten pound weight limit. After my first OHS, four years ago, I always had pain in my sternum though it fully healed. I never could lay on my stomach and stormy weather always made me uncomfortable. I followed my surgeon's instructions last time so it was just luck of the draw, I guess.

This time I am close to fanatic about carefully considering my every movement prior to doing something that could risk the best possible healing. My cardio did allow me to drive three weeks post op but I am keeping it to very short runs and am very careful about what I am doing when I get to where it is I drove. I suppose it will be months before I know if I will always have post op pain in my chest.
 
Well i had my surgery Feb 11th and i received my bill last week, not including the doctors and anestesiologist, the surgery was 65,000, icu and 2 days in a regular room was 6,000, so im looking at a total bill of about 90,000 all together, my insurance only paid 56,000 and i have to pay the other 40,000 or so out of pocket. IM a single mother of 3 and on a limited income. What are they going to do if i cant pay reposses my heart valve LOL Tell my i have to give it back LOL Seriously thou, the hopital said i just have to show them my income fill out some paperwork, and they would cover the remaining amount. They did that for my brother when he had back surgery, he couldnt pay the bill and they wrote it off. I will go bankrupt if i have to. IF i didnt have the surgery i would have died. so i had to get it done no matter what. its just amazing how expensive it all is.
 
bill

bill

I'm 9 weeks post-op and am still getting about 3 bills per week. None of them make much sense and we get bills from anyone that even came close to me :p We have them all in one file and when they stop coming we will try and sort them all out! We pay $ 5000.00 co-pay for the year, we'll see how it all works out. Debbie
 
detailed invoice arrives

detailed invoice arrives

i have already accepted the full costs charged but it was interesting to receive the very detailed summary of charges sent by the hospital earlier this week. apparently they do this for every paying patient.

seems the bulk of the additional charges arise from the failed attempt at mitral valve repair, and extra 1.5 hours (total of 5) in the operating theatre at ns$22.00 per minute, cosgrove annulopsty band $1973.00 (thrown in bin). some other items of joy were anaesthetics totalling $2583, operation drugs $2242 and surgical supplies of $6425! with full details supplied for everything.
surgeons fees were $13900 and anaesthetist $4100

the on-x conform-x valve 25/33 mm cost nz$3500.00 which i guess is not too bad.

intensive care was $2124 per day and thereafter my private room with balcony was $846 per day.

at least there was no extra charge for the wine my wife and i drank very day!
or for my wifes meals etc

but obviously there are cheaper ways of getting a free meal and drink......
 
Seems to be that you could at least get $1973 back for the piece of equipment that wasn't used. Are you sure it was thrown away? Sometimes they are able to put them in the autoclave and use them on another patient. Even if it was thrown away, seems like you shouldn't be charged for it. You might want to talk to your surgeon. If things work there like they do here, he could probably get you a refund.
 
Jkm7 said:
nz $47,000 ...... I don't know the conversion rate to U.S. dollars but am interested. Think I'll see if I can find a U.S $ vs. nz $ conversation chart.


Jim; nz$47,000 equals $37,003.10 U.S.

I have a conversion chart on my lap-top
 
second hand

second hand

lisa, the problem is that the $1973 ring had been sewn in place during the attempted repair, so could not be re used.

i have got no complaints, the surgeon made a heroic effort to repair my valve (the anaesthetist told me that) but when he tested the completed job and found it was leaking, he replaced the valve with an on-x. he said he got to the point in a 5 hour operation (3 hours on heat lung machine) where he had to decide whether to have another attempt at repairing it and possibly still end up replacing the valve etc and decided he had to "stop his pride getting in the way" and "cut his losses" at that point

personally, i feel he did the correct thing. i have often read about people whose mitral valve repair only lasted 7 months to say 5 years and the last thing in this world i wanted was to end up with another dose of heart surgery.

this guy is the widely recognised best expert in valve repair and i have total faith in him. he said his pride made him try very had but thank goodness he had the sense/honesty to admit it was not working and revert to plan b.

yes, if i probably could get some refunds if i "jumped up and down" but i was always quoted a 95% certainty of repair so there was always a "commercial risk" involved and it is hard to justify a demand for a refund to yourself when you are totally satisfied.
 
Westie, I agree with you and I wouldn't recommend jumping up and down. I am very familiar with the healthcare system here and know that cash pay often gets a discount. Hospitals set their billed charges high so they can get more from the insurance companies who pay on a percent of charges. For the insurance companies that pay a flat rate, the hospital uses their billed charges to negotiate, e.g., "We need an increase in our reimbursement because we are only getting 23% of billed charges now." They never really expect to get 100% of their charges, although they will take it. For instance, look at the INR monitor. If they have to deal with your insurance, they charge about $2500. If you pay cash, they charge about $1500. I don't know that it works the same way there because of the government program vs. private pay issue.

You're right - by attempting the repair procedure first, the surgeon did exactly what he was supposed to do, and then he was smart enough to realize that it wasn't going to be the best choice in your case. Frankly, I'm glad that could tell that I was beyond repair and instead replaced my valve. As you say, too many stories of repairs that fail rather quickly.
 
Exact same situation in my case. My surgeon tried for two hours to repair my mitral valve, knew it was leaking and knew my worst nightmare was a failed repair. This was my second OHS in four years (he did both of them) and the thought of a third in the near future was more than I could wrestle with. I am HUGELY grateful to my surgeon he made the choice to abandon the repair effort and went ahead with bovine replacement. He 'heard me' when we spoke at my pre-op appointment with him. Good Communication with our surgeons/doctors is critical.
 

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