Government over reaction or wise insite?

[Bonzo Dog]

Would it be rude to comment from Europe on a tense New Orleans situation??

The BBC ran a piece this morning, where a seemingly well informed New Orleans resident of British origins was rubbishing the manipulative nature of local government and it's failure to give residents the proper facts.
In his view, based on monitoring Gustav's behaviour over the last week, it would both be too weak and too far down the coast to cause major damage on landfall. He pointed out Katrina created minimal actual storm damage by itself. The major damage was caused by levee breaching, less likely to happen this time as Gustav was both weak and approaching from another direction. He felt the Gustav situation was being overhyped to create a sense of alarm, so government could react and cover itself in praise, thus erasing some ill feeling for Katrina.

Is this either far fetched nonsense or wise insight??

 

[Jackie]

Thank you Oaktree, exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[Superbob]

Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, as far as government at all levels sounding the alarm and taking steps to try to avert a worst-case scenario.

Better safe than sorry comes to mind. Notoriously, hurricanes can wobble at the last minute and cause either less or more damage than expected.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

I suggest that if anyone wants to make any other political comments, then start a different thread. This one was started as Philip's personal message to let us know he is okay, and it is appreciated.

Oh come on Oaktree allow some breadth.
As the original topic is labelled 'Gustav' IMHO posts concerning Gustav are in order. Implicit in my post was the human dimension re an undue amount of upheaval for the people of New Orleans. It seemed they could be failed twice, first by Katrina under reaction second by Gustav over reaction. Also previous posters had indicated Gustav seemed to be weakening, so there was a chronology to my offering.

 

[Ross]

I'm not sure Bonzo. After the dismal failure at all levels during the Katrina catastrophe, new implementations were made and executed this time around. I really don't think it's overreaction as much as it is testing of a new system to handle situations as such.

 

[Wise]

I would evacuate regardless of government action. Hurricanes have a life of their own, just as do tornadoes etc. However this comment is being offered by a scaredycat when it comes to severe weather.

 

[Nancy]

When human lives could be lost, I think it's prudent to act carefully. They didn't last time, and it was a disaster which is still not cleaned up. It is very hard for people to leave where they are in an evacuation, but it is prudent. Hurricanes/tropical storms can be unpredictable and didn't I read that the repair of the levees was not what most had hoped for and only on par with what had been?

My daughter lives in Tampa Florida, and is always telling me how hard it is to predict the path of these storms, even hour by hour. Hanna has changed its path several times, first to the Gulf, then to the Atlantic. Her son has a big football game to play on Friday, and they can't determine if it is a go or not yet. She literally watches the news all day long during one of these storms to get the latest info.

Yesterday, she told me she would love to move back to New York. We have snow, but the hurricane season is pretty scary.

The time to evacuate is before the storm is upon them, not during it.

 

[Bina]

We are hearing alot about Gustav; if it loses force, at least this evacuation will have been a very good practice run.
I have been in Orlando Florida when a horrible storm came through....scary sh-t.

 

[Cooker]

Would it be rude to comment from Europe on a tense New Orleans situation??
The BBC ran a piece this morning, where a seemingly well informed New Orleans resident of British origins was rubbishing the manipulative nature of local government and it's failure to give residents the proper facts.
In his view, based on monitoring Gustav's behaviour over the last week, it would both be too weak and too far down the coast to cause major damage on landfall. He pointed out Katrina created minimal actual storm damage by itself. The major damage was caused by levee breaching, less likely to happen this time as Gustav was both weak and approaching from another direction. He felt the Gustav situation was being overhyped to create a sense of alarm, so government could react and cover itself in praise, thus erasing some ill feeling for Katrina.

Is this either far fetched nonsense or wise insight??

Yes it would.....

 

[Superbob]

We are hearing alot about Gustav; if it loses force, at least this evacuation will have been a very good practice run.
I have been in Orlando Florida when a horrible storm came through....scary sh-t.

I like the idea of this having been (at worst? -- or at best?) a "practice run." The only problem is, if there are too many practice runs in the future, each accompanied by apocalyptic storm-of-the-century rhetoric from the local leaders, fewer and fewer people will evacuate.

The basic problem is New Orleans (which I love) being a big city located below sea level. If there were another Katrina -- or worst, a Cat 5 -- should billions and billions of tax dollars be used to rebuild again? (Maybe they could at least move the French Quarter out here to the mountains, to liven things up. )

 

[skeptic49]

Gustav: The Military Is In Charge!

Gustav: The Military Is In Charge!

"Some observers have pointed out that daily briefings on preparations for Gustav, which should be coming from the Federal Emergency Management Agency ? which is, you know, supposed to manage emergencies ? have been coming, instead, from the U.S. military?s Northern Command.

It?s not hard to see why. Top positions at FEMA are no longer held by obviously unqualified political hacks and cronies. But a recent report by the inspector general of the Department of Homeland Security said that the agency has made only ?limited progress? in the area of ?mission assignments? ? that is, in its ability to coordinate the response to a crisis. So FEMA still isn?t up to carrying out its principal task."

- New York Times columist Paul Krugman today 9/1

 

[Lisa in Katy]

Bonzo - once again (you and) the British are attempting to make us look stupid, but strangely enough, it doesn't really affect us. Funny how very little of our news is dedicated to that tiny place (that many of our ancestors felt quite lucky to escape from for one reason or another), but the Brits seem to spend most of their time talking about us. Things that make you go...hmmmmmmm?

I think the government reacted appropriately, although I don't blame the lack of reaction in the Katrina debaucle on the government. I will admit that the news media drives be berserk with their constant doom and gloom predictions. Adults should be able to think for themselves. Fortunately, unlike most natural disasters, hurricanes give plenty of warning. The people in New Orleans who decided to ride out Katrina did so because of past history. It had been over 40 years since New Orleans had a major hurricane (Betsy), many people weren't around or didn't remember it, and really, if they evacuated for every hurricane, they would hardly ever be home in the summer! If I had been there for Katrina, I probably wouldn't have evacuated. If I was still around to make the decision, I definitely would have evacuated for Gustav. As someone else said, hindsight's 20/20.

I grew up on the Texas Gulf Coast and we only evacuated for 2 hurricanes - once right after we first moved there and were still "newbies" and once for Hurricane Allen (which hit Category 5 on 3 separate occasions and caused billions of dollars in damage, but none where I lived, which is where it was forecast to hit). For Allen, we sat on the road for well over 24 hours and never made it to our destination, Austin, normally a 2-3 hour drive, before we decided to turn around and go home. Lucky for us, because Austin ended up with over $100 million in damage and massive flooding caused by tornadoes, and the people who made it there were stuck!

Strength of the storm doesn't mean all that much. Of the top 10 hurricanes ranked by damages to the US, only 3 are Cat 4 or 5, one was just a tropical storm. Of the next 10, none are above Cat 3. Katrina was "only" a Cat 3 and had over $80 billion in damage (largest in history). Tropical Storm Alison caused over $5 billion of damage and 41 deaths in Texas alone.

 

[Bonzo Dog]

Bonzo - once again (you and) the British are attempting to make us look stupid, .................?

No attempt to make you (the USA) look stupid Lisa. Your spokespersons and leaders do that very well on their own without our help.

......... but strangely enough, it doesn't really affect us.

Sadly it seems to many in the rest of the world very little external comment and advice affects the USA.

Funny how very little of our news is dedicated to that tiny place (that many of our ancestors felt quite lucky to escape from for one reason or another),

Yes, it seems not much of your serious in depth news is international. With a cultural disinterest in matters abroad, quite who has the little island mentality?

but the Brits seem to spend most of their time talking about us. Things that make you go...hmmmmmmm?

Not at all. Delusions of grandeur there. BBC Radio 4's daily flagship in depth news and current affairs programme, The Today Programme runs from 6am to 9pm. I listened this morning from 7 to 8.45 and heard about 7-8 mins total on Gustav. A couple of minutes on MCcain and an interview with David Cameron (and who is he?) on the Georgia situation which involved some American comment, oh and something on oil prices with an American mention.

 

[geebee]

I have not been posting recently but have been reading. This thread made me feel like I need to reply.

This forum was not created for political bashing.

Bonzo - if you despise the US so much, that is your right but take it to a political forum. This is not the place so cut it out.

 

[Ross]

There comes a point where things should be taken to pm's and not posted in the forums. I think that time has come. Lets play nice or I play Master Lock.

 

[Superbob]

I must say I thought Bonzo's original question in this thread was fair enough, but now -- ouch! -- it seems to be getting out of hand and rather personal, and going downhill fast, and I agree with Ross. Come on folks, the Anglo-American relationship is a wonderful thing, as a former British PM, Margaret Thatcher, pointed out often. Let's realize we are imperfect on both sides of the pond, and move on.

 

[Marguerite53]

for heaven's sake, people. Bonzo doesn't hate the US. Bonzo is curious about the US.

This was his original querry....
"Is this either far fetched nonsense or wise insight??"

Did we answer him? We started to.

Look, aren't we really ignoring the obvious? Our planet is changing. We have a global interest in attending to the accuracy of predicting these disasters. Isn't Bangladesh having monster floods right now, too?

What are you doing about the probability/possibility of global warming and its ramifications? Are you investing in alternative energy sources? Are you voting in people who represent the interests of the planet? Are you recycling, are you pre-cycling?

Maybe if you all listened to the BBC once in awhile you would understand the depth of analysis prevalent in the English news and perhaps you would try a bit harder to respect Bonzo's questions and not get him all riled up on the defensive. Good luck arguing with a good Brit!!

Marguerite

 

[Guest]

for heaven's sake, people. Bonzo doesn't hate the US. Bonzo is curious about the US.

This was his original querry....
"Is this either far fetched nonsense or wise insight??"

Did we answer him? We started to.

Look, aren't we really ignoring the obvious? Our planet is changing. We have a global interest in attending to the accuracy of predicting these disasters. Isn't Bangladesh having monster floods right now, too?

What are you doing about the probability/possibility of global warming and its ramifications? Are you investing in alternative energy sources? Are you voting in people who represent the interests of the planet? Are you recycling, are you pre-cycling?

Maybe if you all listened to the BBC once in awhile you would understand the depth of analysis prevalent in the English news and perhaps you would try a bit harder to respect Bonzo's questions and not get him all riled up on the defensive. Good luck arguing with a good Brit!!

Marguerite

You go girl. At least we're getting a little reprieve from the constant presidential candidate coverage. I'm sick of all of it actually. None of the candidates are among my favorites, #1 problem with our country, no strong leadership.

One good thing about the BBC, they cover stories our own media won't. Our media has become so touchy feely it makes you want to throw up. I don't even watch CNN(liberal) or FOX (liberal but pretends to be conservative) as much as I used to.

OK Ross, you better lock this thread.

Oh, and I own a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. My way of giving OPEC a kick in the butt and reducing my carbon footprint.

 

[Cooker]

Ok ? the question (Bonzo?s) is not the issue that is giving a few members the ?red ass? (IMHO) ?. I think the fact that we have a few loved members that have left there homes for safety and that we are concerned for them and their safety?. This does not seem to be the time or place for debate on hurricane preparation measures or Brit/USA relations?? Why don?t we all just use this energy for prayers, karma wishes or whatever is your outlet for the folks in harms way......Please don't piss off the Chimp

 

[Guest]

Ok ? the question (Bonzo?s) is not the issue that is giving a few members the ?red ass? (IMHO) ?. I think the fact that we have a few loved members that have left there homes for safety and that we are concerned for them and their safety?. This does not seem to be the time or place for debate on hurricane preparation measures or Brit/USA relations?? Why don?t we all just use this energy for prayers, karma wishes or whatever is your outlet for the folks in harms way......Please don't piss off the Chimp

We love you Chimp! My husband has been on duty 24/7 since last Thursday, making sure everything runs smoothly for soldiers being deployed to Louisiana. They sent choppers and soldiers. I worry about those folks too. No holiday weekend for us, but that's ok with me.