Covid Vaccines

[pellicle]

Oh I'm not all butt hurt or angry about it just having a friendly little banter.

I don't recall posting that you were.

-the Brits lost their empire and they're good at that sort of contradictory love of The class system they kind of can't let go of and also enjoying making fun of it.

Speaking as a colonial who has lived extensively outside of the "Empire" I could go on about that for some time, but I'll resist. The class system is indeed a vexing one but has sides you may not see, not least of which is that the US is creating its own class system ...

 

[pellicle]

the Brits lost their empire and

and the USA is loosing what they had the opportunity to build when the three biggest forces on the planet at the time were taken down in a huge fight (called WW2).

I believe Henry Kissinger nailed the reason why in this quote:

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”​

― Henry Kissinger​

I watch the Afganistan debacle with great sadness and amusement. The short sighted view of the USA has played directly into Chinas hands. I assume you know the concept of the Silk Road, well the US just lost the important end of that ancient trade route.

Its a 1,2 3 knockout

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...ecretary-of-state-blinken/article35926446.ece
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mbassy-evacuated-zealand-sends-plane-79473951
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/16/c_1310130484.htm
So while the Brits did indeed lose their empire they had it for centuries (and everything dies), the USA was only able to maintain its empire in the vacuum occupied by the losses of WW2 and by poaching the brightest minds fleeing the collapse of Nazi Germany.

Meanwhile in Australia

we never had an empire and are just a bunch of yobbos selling rocks to China.

 

[cldlhd]

and the USA is loosing what they had the opportunity to build when the three biggest forces on the planet at the time were taken down in a huge fight (called WW2).

I believe Henry Kissinger nailed the reason why in this quote:

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”​

― Henry Kissinger​

I watch the Afganistan debacle with great sadness and amusement. The short sighted view of the USA has played directly into Chinas hands. I assume you know the concept of the Silk Road, well the US just lost the important end of that ancient trade route.

Its a 1,2 3 knockout

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...ecretary-of-state-blinken/article35926446.ece
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mbassy-evacuated-zealand-sends-plane-79473951
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/16/c_1310130484.htm
So while the Brits did indeed lose their empire they had it for centuries (and everything dies), the USA was only able to maintain its empire in the vacuum occupied by the losses of WW2 and by poaching the brightest minds fleeing the collapse of Nazi Germany.

Meanwhile in Australia
View attachment 888055

we never had an empire and are just a bunch of yobbos selling rocks to China.

Who needs an empire anyhow? Bit if a hassle.... The British empire lasted a long time because everything moved slower then.
I know of the silk road and a good bit of china. I don't believe they're necessarily marching towards inevitable world domination. Possibly but they have more internal problems then they commonly get credit for.
Well we had a large part of defeating Nazi Germany before we scooped up those Nazis, although you could argue a lot of our manufacturing and technological abilities came from Americans of German and English (basically Germans on holiday) descent but that's a thorny subject.....
The so called American empire might have consisted of the United States of acting in our own interests but still I believe we were/are much more benevolent than the alternatives- the Nazis or the Soviets. Also you Aussies shouldn't be too keen on Chinese dominance ( not saying you are) in a few decades you guys will be more under their thumb than the States most likely.
What's happening in Afghanistan was largely inevitable, it is what it is. Should have just went in and killed who needed killed then left .....

 

[cldlhd]

and the USA is loosing what they had the opportunity to build when the three biggest forces on the planet at the time were taken down in a huge fight (called WW2).

I believe Henry Kissinger nailed the reason why in this quote:

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”​

― Henry Kissinger​

I watch the Afganistan debacle with great sadness and amusement. The short sighted view of the USA has played directly into Chinas hands. I assume you know the concept of the Silk Road, well the US just lost the important end of that ancient trade route.

Its a 1,2 3 knockout

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...ecretary-of-state-blinken/article35926446.ece
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mbassy-evacuated-zealand-sends-plane-79473951
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/16/c_1310130484.htm
So while the Brits did indeed lose their empire they had it for centuries (and everything dies), the USA was only able to maintain its empire in the vacuum occupied by the losses of WW2 and by poaching the brightest minds fleeing the collapse of Nazi Germany.

Meanwhile in Australia
View attachment 888055

we never had an empire and are just a bunch of yobbos selling rocks to China.

Yes the Chinese don't care about child rape in Afghanistan, they're just worried about money.

 

[pellicle]

Yes the Chinese don't care about child rape in Afghanistan, they're just worried about money.

and easy occupation of the place by making loans as a gesture of friendship. Ask the various provinces conquered by the Han about that went for them ... especially the Muslim ones

 

[pellicle]

Well we had a large part of defeating Nazi Germany

you sure did, and for that the world is grateful (or was and should still be). However, what came after that is not entirely something to sing about ...

 

[cldlhd]

you sure did, and for that the world is grateful (or was and should still be). However, what came after that is not entirely something to sing about ...

Nobody's perfect, again the soviets or Nazis wouldn't have been a good time either.

 

[cldlhd]

and easy occupation of the place by making loans as a gesture of friendship. Ask the various provinces conquered by the Han about that went for them ... especially the Muslim ones

Ya I think the Chinese will have some issues dealing with that **** show as well

 

[Critter]

So third shot for vaccines has been approved in the US but I think its reserved for patients at high risk, like people who have had organ transplants and the like and may have compromised immune systems... at any rate, a family member asked me if I was going to get the third shot. I said I don't think its for me. I think she confused implant for transplant. But then I thought, I wonder, if they play loose with the rules, should I get the third shot if I can? I don't know...

If one was considering whether to get re-vaccinated or to see if they have lasting immunity from an infection. One could get a COVID IgG antibody titer. If it is present you have been immunized if there is anti-spike antibodies present. Hard to draw conclusion from levels without a study done, but logic tells me there is some level of lasting immunity If you have positive IgG spike antibody levels it doesn’t get better than this.

 

[pellicle]

Ya I think the Chinese will have some issues dealing with that **** show as well

I'm willing to bet that as long as stuff gets where its supposed to go that they'll do just fine (and they accept a little corruption as standard anyway)

 

[pellicle]

Nobody's perfect

agreed, but the USA have quite a patchy record as "world power" and just because the other two you mention are worse is no reason to set the bar low. I see it as an opportunity squandered. Perhaps its because the Civil War never really got solved?
Dunno

 

[Keithl]

and the USA is loosing what they had the opportunity to build when the three biggest forces on the planet at the time were taken down in a huge fight (called WW2).

I believe Henry Kissinger nailed the reason why in this quote:

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”​

― Henry Kissinger​

I watch the Afganistan debacle with great sadness and amusement. The short sighted view of the USA has played directly into Chinas hands. I assume you know the concept of the Silk Road, well the US just lost the important end of that ancient trade route.

Its a 1,2 3 knockout

https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...ecretary-of-state-blinken/article35926446.ece
https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...mbassy-evacuated-zealand-sends-plane-79473951
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/16/c_1310130484.htm
So while the Brits did indeed lose their empire they had it for centuries (and everything dies), the USA was only able to maintain its empire in the vacuum occupied by the losses of WW2 and by poaching the brightest minds fleeing the collapse of Nazi Germany.

Meanwhile in Australia
View attachment 888055

we never had an empire and are just a bunch of yobbos selling rocks to China.

The USA made a simple mistake, they trained the mem to fight, they should have had a predominate woman force and I bet the Taliban would be toast as they had the most at stake.

 

[slipkid]

Yeah the movie Fargo was really good. The show, obviously, isn't this good but it's still watchable compared to a lot of what's out there. I think each year is a totally different storyline

I love the movie Fargo but love the TV show even more. The first two seasons are incredible. The third is a step down but still good. The 4th is a little better than the 3rd. Especially cool is the way they throw references of the movie, or other TV seasons' characters, into later shows.

I am a fan of most Coen Bros work (but not all). Am american but do not like Lebowski, find it annoying for some reason (partly because I cannot stand John Goodman I guess). If I had to pick only three of my fave CB movies I would have to chose Blood Simple, Miller's Crossing, and Fargo. No accounting for taste!

 

[cldlhd]

agreed, but the USA have quite a patchy record as "world power" and just because the other two you mention are worse is no reason to set the bar low. I see it as an opportunity squandered. Perhaps its because the Civil War never really got solved?
Dunno

Agreed, I'm just looking at it from practical terms and if the United States withdrew from the world stage after WW2, as many wanted, I think the vast majority of the world would have been worse for it.
The Chinese have an advantage in that our politicians only look as far as the next election cycle and our public corporations to the next quarter. They can do long term planning and implement. Not saying their system is preferable overall but everything has pluses in minuses.

 

[tom in MO]

Now your creating a straw man argument. Of course probability is not certainty and I never claimed it was. But, understanding probability is crucial to determining risk vs reward. And if one has no clue about probability, best to just follow the advice of the experts, which are all saying "Get vaccinated", well, unless we want to start going down the quack watch list and pretend that they are experts, in which case you can find just about any opinion under the sun.



It certainly can be irrational. If the fear is not based on science, but based on emotion, that would fit the definition of irrational. As I shared, my daughter had a bad reaction to the MMR vaccine, which led to ITP. If the family then avoided vaccines based our emotions, rather than science, this would be irrational- which by definition means not logical or reasonable. But, as I noted, perhaps understandable if a family in such circumstances did let their emotions get the better of them.

People are choosing not to get the vaccine, due to fears which are either imaginary, or emotionally amplified, and in doing so, they are putting themselves at significant risk. But to see this it does require either trusting the experts or having about an 8th grade level of math comprehension, so that one can read the studies and understand the statistics.

It takes a lot more than an 8th grade education to understand the statistics of virology. Some virologists don't understand it themselves, they hire statisticians to do it for them.

You seem unable to understand that by your definition of fear, you - yourself fear Covid and that's what drives you to the vaccine. I prefer to think of it as risk assessment. You discount those who consider the risk from Covid as low and also believe it may be a good thing for the planet to thin out the human herd.

You discount those that believe it should be left to God not to vaccines or "science." Science is in many ways a religion, particularly to those who are not experts. Even experts are limited to their specialty and personal bias. Science is based on faith. Both religion and science give us knowledge of the unseen world. All knowledge of the unseen world must be based on faith. So science is a religion.

Fauci and the CDC didn't do the right thing in the first place...They did not admit they didn't know and they didn't leave politics out of the equation. This undermines their creditability for ever more. They also sold a bill of goods with the vaccine, any virologist can tell you that viruses mutate, the medical establishment bowed to politics and gave us happy talk in May and June, knowing full well viral mutations could (and did) change the game. Remember, we get new flu shots every year,..

So never forget the healthcare industry is full of charlatans out to make money. For example, in the past, FDA personnel were bribed by generic drug manufacturers. So as people are unvaccinated around the southern part of world, the Western world goes for a third shot. Maybe Western Society deserves the Delta Variant. Who is winning in the viral wars? Those who always win:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Drugmakers Pfizer Inc, BioNTech and Moderna Inc are expected to reap billions of dollars from COVID-19 booster shots in a market that could rival the $6 billion in annual sales for flu vaccines for years to come, analysts and healthcare investors say.

Where does the billions come from? Rich societies who fiddle with vaccines while the world burns and floods due to global warming.

Science and politics and snake oil salesmen have been in bed together since the invention of medicine.

 

[cldlhd]

It takes a lot more than an 8th grade education to understand the statistics of virology. Some virologists don't understand it themselves, they hire statisticians to do it for them.

You seem unable to understand that by your definition of fear, you - yourself fear Covid and that's what drives you to the vaccine. I prefer to think of it as risk assessment. You discount those who consider the risk from Covid as low and also believe it may be a good thing for the planet to thin out the human herd.

You discount those that believe it should be left to God not to vaccines or "science." Science is in many ways a religion, particularly to those who are not experts. Even experts are limited to their specialty and personal bias. Science is based on faith. Both religion and science give us knowledge of the unseen world. All knowledge of the unseen world must be based on faith. So science is a religion.

Fauci and the CDC didn't do the right thing in the first place...They did not admit they didn't know and they didn't leave politics out of the equation. This undermines their creditability for ever more. They also sold a bill of goods with the vaccine, any virologist can tell you that viruses mutate, the medical establishment bowed to politics and gave us happy talk in May and June, knowing full well viral mutations could (and did) change the game. Remember, we get new flu shots every year,..

So never forget the healthcare industry is full of charlatans out to make money. For example, in the past, FDA personnel were bribed by generic drug manufacturers. So as people are unvaccinated around the southern part of world, the Western world goes for a third shot. Maybe Western Society deserves the Delta Variant. Who is winning in the viral wars? Those who always win:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Drugmakers Pfizer Inc, BioNTech and Moderna Inc are expected to reap billions of dollars from COVID-19 booster shots in a market that could rival the $6 billion in annual sales for flu vaccines for years to come, analysts and healthcare investors say.

Where does the billions come from? Rich societies who fiddle with vaccines while the world burns and floods due to global warming.

Science and politics and snake oil salesmen have been in bed together since the invention of medicine.

Oh so you're saying they're pushing the vaccines for money, you talk about logic and statistics and you talk about leaving it to God? Okay, that's probably how the Taliban will handle it as well....
So you expect the first world population to forgo protection for themselves and their loved ones to help others? Seems unlikely . You contradict yourself- first you talk the vaccines down then chastise the western world for not sharing them enough

 

[Chuck C]

You discount those that believe it should be left to God not to vaccines or "science." Science is in many ways a religion, particularly to those who are not experts. Even experts are limited to their specialty and personal bias. Science is based on faith. Both religion and science give us knowledge of the unseen world. All knowledge of the unseen world must be based on faith. So science is a religion.

Virtually every reader here has at least one comorbidity and most have several. This is a very at risk group. For you to claim that science is just a religion and encourage people to leave it to God and not trust science, on a board like this especially, is extremely irresponsible.

By not getting vaccinated, people actually do harm to us all by allowing the virus to continue to spread and mutate. And, they do harm to the most vulnerable among us, those with comorbidities and those who can not be vaccinated. God tells us to protect the weak and the most vulnerable. Getting vaccinated is not something we do based on fear, as you claim. It is based on responsibility and love for the most vulnerable. Really something else that you evoke faith in God as a reason to not get vaccinated.

 

[cldlhd]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Drugmakers Pfizer Inc, BioNTech and Moderna Inc are expected to reap billions of dollars from COVID-19 booster shots in a market that could rival the $6 billion in annual sales for flu vaccines for years to come, analysts and healthcare investors say.

So wait a second, you're saying that pharmaceutical company that developed an extremely effective vaccine very quickly is going to make money off of it? I always thought that profits were an incentive to develop a better mouse trap but apparently they're nefarious....are you a secret communist? The problem with profits in pharmaceuticals is when they're disincentivised to develop things like new antibiotics because most people don't take them daily forever like statins or diabetes drugs. That's where the profit motive let's us down and some sort of outside force needs to spur their development.
" Fiddle with vaccines" , you mean develop vaccines? Who else but rich societies are going to develop them? Is Uganda going to develop the mRNA technology?

 

[pellicle]

the United States withdrew from the world stage after WW2, as many wanted, I think the vast majority of the world would have been worse for it.

Again binary thinking, one extreme to the other. How about just not be arse clown imperialists? Our didn't you know the evil they did?
What happened to a Christian ethic?

 

[cldlhd]

Again binary thinking, one extreme to the other. How about just not be arse clown imperialists? Our didn't you know the evil they did?
What happened to a Christian ethic?

Never claimed to be Christian, I think most countries act in their best interest. Give some imperialist examples. I assume Vietnam is on the list? It is sort of a binary choice, unless you're wanting the right side to win and then that country to behave perfectly from that on or at least close to it. It's like a presidential election in United States might not be able to pick the one that you love you pick the one that you dislike least. So again it was either us being the world's dominant power or the Nazis or the Soviets. I never said we behaved perfectly I simply said we were the more benevolent of the three
I would argue I was the one being non binary by pointing out how Mr Fry ,and to an extent you, or generalizing and speaking like "the American sense of humor is like this or like that and the British sense of humor is like this..."I was speaking in shades of gray