I actually clicked on and watched the so called "expert"........and I was impressed that he said all that with a "straight face". I can understand how some, primarily low intellect sheep, could be swayed with that Bull ****.
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Covid Vaccines
- Thread starter kimcdougc
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It is good to see that as of June "definitely not" was only 14% and "only if required" was only 6%. By now, probably something in the range of 50% of those folks have already had Covid.
I expect that many of the "wait and see" are the folks who might rush down there to get theirs with the promise of potential lottery winnings. Someone I know actually did just that the moment that CA announced the lottery- took his two adult children down and the three of them all got vaccinated. Kind of pathetic when you think about it- it took the promise of effectively a $1 lottery ticket to push them over the fence, but glad they did so all the same.
So, with the hesitancy down so low, and the reality that many of the anti-vaxxer crowd have had the infection, perhaps we get to 85% relatively soon, maybe even 90%, counting those either vaccinated or having antibodies from having had the virus.
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This article does a decent job of debunking many of the myths and conspiracies being propagated about Covid-19 and the vaccine, and addresses some of the claims made by a couple of posters above:
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...#Myth:-The-COVID-19-vaccines-rewrite-your-DNA
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...#Myth:-The-COVID-19-vaccines-rewrite-your-DNA
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I actually clicked on and watched the so called "expert"........and I was impressed that he said all that with a "straight face". I can understand how some, primarily low intellect sheep, could be swayed with that Bull ****.
Dick, they say that time is money. Perhaps you should ask for a refund of the 52 minutes that you invested
Wish I could be that hopeful, but I think HI is not realistic at this point. The ship has sailed. Delta already out there and Lambda is on the way. While it would be easy to blame this on the previous administration, and while there were definitely mistakes, I think it's a characteristic of the virus, and the worldwide interconnectedness that we live in.
I think that the vaccination push is now all about reducing the strain on the hospital system, and trying to buy time for hospital/social systems to move towards a re-alignment where that's the new reality. . Sooner or later everyone will get Covid, vaccinated or not, and it's just a matter of how sick you get. It will become endemic like the flu, and the only unknown will be how lethal the variants are to unprotected (or vaccinated but weak) populations are and what long Covid looks like.
Edit/addition: it's worth noting that everyone on these boards falls into the "...but weak" category, vaccinated or not.
I think that the vaccination push is now all about reducing the strain on the hospital system, and trying to buy time for hospital/social systems to move towards a re-alignment where that's the new reality. . Sooner or later everyone will get Covid, vaccinated or not, and it's just a matter of how sick you get. It will become endemic like the flu, and the only unknown will be how lethal the variants are to unprotected (or vaccinated but weak) populations are and what long Covid looks like.
Edit/addition: it's worth noting that everyone on these boards falls into the "...but weak" category, vaccinated or not.
Superman
Well-known member
My understanding on Covid is that the antibodies from having had the virus do not stick around. Suspicion is that my wife had it in February of 2020 just prior to all the testing and lockdowns. We were in Disney World with a lot of international travelers around and all the symptoms matched. An antibody test in August came back negative, which is consistent with what we had heard. I also know someone on their second go round with Covid.
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Early on, they thought that antibodies would start dropping off sharply after about 3 months. As it went on they were seeing it last much longer in most folks. I contracted Covid in June of 2020 and had verified high antibodies for 8 months, as I was donating convalescent plasma regularly. Each time you donate, they test to see if you still have a high level of antibodies. I stopped donating a few weeks before my valve surgery, so who knows how much longer they would have lasted. I was vaccinated in April.
It looks like most others are seeing the same long lasting immunity that I experienced.
"For those who recover from COVID-19, immunity to the virus can last at least 8 months and maybe longer, research shows."
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know
my cardiologist gave me sage advice a dozen years ago, before my 1st surgery.
“With a heart condition and prosthesis, Avoid infection as best you can, infection can be deadly with your condition”
For any member of this forum to be arguing against vaccination and in Covid denial is more than baffling to me after 16 months. It has nothing to do with being misinformed and all to do with malfaisance.
How can these anti all members have cardiac issues, AVR or other, deny the vaccine science, yet trust cardiac surgeons and staff?
With so little trust for the establishment how can someone with no symptoms accept to have surgery/anesthesiology and OHS, where for 48 hours or more you are totally reliant on others and yet deny the favourable stats for the Covid vaccines, as delivered by the establishment they so mistrust?
As for me and Covid vaccine, i had my 1st shot in late March, my surgery for AVR with a new Inspiris Resilia aortic valve in late April and my second vaccine in mid May.
i had no reaction to the vaccine, Pfizer in both cases. These Vaccines are proven quite safe and effective in preventing serious illness and there is little room for discussion based on more than 3.5 administered doses and the Covid stats where they were administered.
All medical personnel, including my cardiac team, encouraged me to get any Covid vaccine as soon as available.
in my geographic region of 8 million people, which had a high infection and death ratio in waves 1 and 2, am happy to report that we have had one (1j Covid in past week, 23 in ICU and 80 hospitalized at this time with age 20-29 in the majority.
and yes we still mask indoors when in group or with strangers And will continue to do so for some time, as there is very little downside to masking and masking is proven effective.
thank You to @vitdoc, Michael O, Spartangator and others for good information on this thread, shame on the trolls.
what is reassuring is that members of this forum are into self help and being informed, so trolls mostly raise our blood pressure far more than influence us into denying science….smile
“With a heart condition and prosthesis, Avoid infection as best you can, infection can be deadly with your condition”
For any member of this forum to be arguing against vaccination and in Covid denial is more than baffling to me after 16 months. It has nothing to do with being misinformed and all to do with malfaisance.
How can these anti all members have cardiac issues, AVR or other, deny the vaccine science, yet trust cardiac surgeons and staff?
With so little trust for the establishment how can someone with no symptoms accept to have surgery/anesthesiology and OHS, where for 48 hours or more you are totally reliant on others and yet deny the favourable stats for the Covid vaccines, as delivered by the establishment they so mistrust?
As for me and Covid vaccine, i had my 1st shot in late March, my surgery for AVR with a new Inspiris Resilia aortic valve in late April and my second vaccine in mid May.
i had no reaction to the vaccine, Pfizer in both cases. These Vaccines are proven quite safe and effective in preventing serious illness and there is little room for discussion based on more than 3.5 administered doses and the Covid stats where they were administered.
All medical personnel, including my cardiac team, encouraged me to get any Covid vaccine as soon as available.
in my geographic region of 8 million people, which had a high infection and death ratio in waves 1 and 2, am happy to report that we have had one (1j Covid in past week, 23 in ICU and 80 hospitalized at this time with age 20-29 in the majority.
and yes we still mask indoors when in group or with strangers And will continue to do so for some time, as there is very little downside to masking and masking is proven effective.
thank You to @vitdoc, Michael O, Spartangator and others for good information on this thread, shame on the trolls.
what is reassuring is that members of this forum are into self help and being informed, so trolls mostly raise our blood pressure far more than influence us into denying science….smile
cldlhd
Well-known member
Well besides your usual conspiracy theory stuff which is a lot more prevalent these days thanks to the old internet, this virus in particular was made more political which I'm not really going to get into too much, but I have a buddy at work who's fully vaccinated but a few of his friends aren't and when they get together they'll mock him with nonsense like " Oh you need the government to tell you what to do" and stuff like that. They have this weird sense of machismo regarding not being afraid of it or just not trusting the government regarding anything particularly since their guy's not in office anymore. It's very strange and contradictory though because he says on one hand they like to argue about how proactive their preferred president was regarding covid-19 and then the next minute they're talking about how it's really nothing and it's all blown out of proportion. Which seems sort of mutually exclusive to me but then again I am a simple guy
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That video features Dr. David Martin, a well known conspiracy theorist for many years.
He was the central character in Plandemic Part 2
" But Martin has also peddled conspiracy theories over the years. He published a novel in 2011, which he claimed was based on real events, alleging a rigged 2008 presidential election that was somehow tied to the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. "
Martin's recent positions regarding Covid-19 have been well debunked:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/new-plandemic-video-peddles-misinformation-conspiracies/
He was the central character in Plandemic Part 2
" But Martin has also peddled conspiracy theories over the years. He published a novel in 2011, which he claimed was based on real events, alleging a rigged 2008 presidential election that was somehow tied to the terror attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. "
Martin's recent positions regarding Covid-19 have been well debunked:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/new-plandemic-video-peddles-misinformation-conspiracies/
Superman
Well-known member
I actually clicked on and watched the so called "expert"........and I was impressed that he said all that with a "straight face". I can understand how some, primarily low intellect sheep, could be swayed with that Bull ****.
I’d be clearing my browser history if I was you.
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pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
No, not with 100% certainty, but very high probabilities.
From Australian government data
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/def...virus-covid-19-at-a-glance-15-july-2021_0.pdf
So the elderly over 70 are the vast bulk of deaths.
Immunization works even in the USA
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
At least 6 months, I'll fish this out if you like
Damn, and I always thought it would be my heart issue that would kill me........goes to prove "live one day at a time".....now is no time to be 85
pellicle
Professional Dingbat, Guru and Merkintologist
Don't worry mate. Just get vaccinated and you're probably stuck here for a while yet
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187
personally I welcome the anti-vaxxers to continue
PS and Dick, explaining the lack of rollout of vaccine in Australia our PM is like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-was-called-to-do-gods-work-as-prime-minister
cldlhd
Well-known member
Well I imagine it was never a really easy time to be 85 but look on the bright side better now than 100 years ago. Better retirement systems, medical coverage for seniors, medical technology, air conditioning.... The internet so you can communicate with us nitwits.
Spartangator - as promised, here is my response to your response from my first post. As you will remember, the primary reason for my initial foray into this controversial subject was to wonder aloud how it could be that those running many of our healthcare systems were not mandating the Covid-19 vaccine for its employees, and further, how it could be that so many of our medical professionals were hesitant to get the vaccine. To the first point, while I thank you for your considered response, the four possible explanations provided, while possibly true, do not fully resolve the matter for me. How, in the face of a pandemic, could such shallow and easily overcome personnel matters be more important than the lives of hospitalized patients, most of whom are compromised by one comorbidity or another? Whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
This only makes sense to me if, in contrast with what we hear on the nightly news, the Covid-19 vaccine is either not as effective or not as safe, or both, as we are led to believe. This goes to the second point of my post, with which your explanation also leaves me wanting. Simply opinionating that healthcare professionals who view the vaccine as risky are extreme outliers and that they are poorly informed is not a convincing argument. Had you ended your response at that point there really would have been nothing for me to respond to and the conflicting in my own mind over the disconnects and double standards would continue just as they do now.
However, since you took issue with my use of the work "experimental" in describing the Covid-19 vaccine, I was inclined to continue my research nd herewith are some of my results in the form of a response which I hope you will find satisfactory.
You support your assertion that Covid-19's Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is not experimental because it has undergone the same amount of rigor as a fully authorized vaccine, and that more is known about Covid treatments and their impacts than almost anything else in modern pharmacy. I concede the fact that the EUA process is rigorous in nature. The problem is that it is a process that is far from complete, as it is when a fully authorized vaccine enters the market. Only Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials are required to be completed before a drug receives EUA status from the FDA. Phase 3 trials, the longest and most complex, require a 2-year period in which participants are followed for serious or clinically significant adverse events. These evaluations of the Covid-19 vaccine are ongoing and only interim results are being obtained by the FDA, which explains why we continue to hear about newly discovered side effects up to and including death. Hence, just to continue EUA status a drug maker is required to perform ongoing risk-benefit determinations. It should be noted that the FDA regularly removes EUA status from drugs/vaccines that fail to pass the established risk-benefit threshold. It should also be noted that all of the information in this paragraph comes directly from the FDA's website so please do not accuse me of spreading disinformation.
The British Medical Journal (BMJ) in concert with the British Medical Association, which by the way is also not known for disseminating disinformation, just last month published the following eye-opening snippets: "The Covid-19 vaccines in widespread use have EUA and not actual approval, a crucial regulatory distinction that reflects major differences in the level of regulatory scrutiny and certainly about the risk-benefit balance." According to the BMJ, Phase 3 trials are not simply efficacy studies, but also necessary and important safety studies. Consequently, the BMJ has called on the FDA "to require a more thorough assessment of spike proteins produced by the body following vaccination, including studies on their full bio distribution, pharmacokinetics, and tissue-specific toxicities." The BMJ also advises the FDA to demand that vaccine manufacturers complete proper bio distribution studies that would be expected of any new drug in addition to studies to better understand the implications of mRNA translation in distant tissue. Finally, the BMJ requests that the FDA obtain necessary studies in specific population groups including those previously infected with SARS-CoV-2, pediatric subjects, and those with immunological or other underlying medical complexities (heart valve patients perhaps?). In other words, studies in specific populations have either not been completed or not even conducted in the first place.j
It is clear to me, and should be to everyone, that there remains open, unanswered questions surrounding the efficacy and safety of the Covid-19 vaccines and calling them experimental at this stage of the process seems fitting to me. In a sense, those of you who have taken the vaccine are unwittingly participating in large scale trials.
I thank you.
This only makes sense to me if, in contrast with what we hear on the nightly news, the Covid-19 vaccine is either not as effective or not as safe, or both, as we are led to believe. This goes to the second point of my post, with which your explanation also leaves me wanting. Simply opinionating that healthcare professionals who view the vaccine as risky are extreme outliers and that they are poorly informed is not a convincing argument. Had you ended your response at that point there really would have been nothing for me to respond to and the conflicting in my own mind over the disconnects and double standards would continue just as they do now.
However, since you took issue with my use of the work "experimental" in describing the Covid-19 vaccine, I was inclined to continue my research nd herewith are some of my results in the form of a response which I hope you will find satisfactory.
You support your assertion that Covid-19's Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is not experimental because it has undergone the same amount of rigor as a fully authorized vaccine, and that more is known about Covid treatments and their impacts than almost anything else in modern pharmacy. I concede the fact that the EUA process is rigorous in nature. The problem is that it is a process that is far from complete, as it is when a fully authorized vaccine enters the market. Only Phase 1 and Phase 2 trials are required to be completed before a drug receives EUA status from the FDA. Phase 3 trials, the longest and most complex, require a 2-year period in which participants are followed for serious or clinically significant adverse events. These evaluations of the Covid-19 vaccine are ongoing and only interim results are being obtained by the FDA, which explains why we continue to hear about newly discovered side effects up to and including death. Hence, just to continue EUA status a drug maker is required to perform ongoing risk-benefit determinations. It should be noted that the FDA regularly removes EUA status from drugs/vaccines that fail to pass the established risk-benefit threshold. It should also be noted that all of the information in this paragraph comes directly from the FDA's website so please do not accuse me of spreading disinformation.
The British Medical Journal (BMJ) in concert with the British Medical Association, which by the way is also not known for disseminating disinformation, just last month published the following eye-opening snippets: "The Covid-19 vaccines in widespread use have EUA and not actual approval, a crucial regulatory distinction that reflects major differences in the level of regulatory scrutiny and certainly about the risk-benefit balance." According to the BMJ, Phase 3 trials are not simply efficacy studies, but also necessary and important safety studies. Consequently, the BMJ has called on the FDA "to require a more thorough assessment of spike proteins produced by the body following vaccination, including studies on their full bio distribution, pharmacokinetics, and tissue-specific toxicities." The BMJ also advises the FDA to demand that vaccine manufacturers complete proper bio distribution studies that would be expected of any new drug in addition to studies to better understand the implications of mRNA translation in distant tissue. Finally, the BMJ requests that the FDA obtain necessary studies in specific population groups including those previously infected with SARS-CoV-2, pediatric subjects, and those with immunological or other underlying medical complexities (heart valve patients perhaps?). In other words, studies in specific populations have either not been completed or not even conducted in the first place.j
It is clear to me, and should be to everyone, that there remains open, unanswered questions surrounding the efficacy and safety of the Covid-19 vaccines and calling them experimental at this stage of the process seems fitting to me. In a sense, those of you who have taken the vaccine are unwittingly participating in large scale trials.
I thank you.
I guess you could think of my heart valve as "experimental" too since it was implanted in the dawn of OHS and does not even have a model or serial number. Edwards Lifesciences had to make up ID numbers for my "wallet" card.....model UNK-STARREW, serial #UNK-178 (I think the UNK stands for UNKnown). I got the vaccine in Feb. 2021. If the vaccine is experimental, and I don't think so, I can only hope it works out as well as my "experimental" aortic valve.
Once again, hats off to Dick for an excellent point. I would venture a guess that most of us on this board owe our chance at a normal life span to medical and scientific advances. Wouldn’t we all like the luxury of a 20 or 30 year track record for the valves we choose and the medical procedures we undergo? The fact is, that more often than not we don’t have that luxury. Our choices are just to stark, trust the medical professionals or die.
Wouldn’t it be grand if we had time for Covid vaccines to have 10 or 20 years of study before we choose them? But we don’t. The choice is just to stark, trust the vaccine and the years of research behind it or risk getting covid, maybe dying. Maybe having long term health issues or passing it to someone we love who dies.
Wouldn’t it be grand if we had time for Covid vaccines to have 10 or 20 years of study before we choose them? But we don’t. The choice is just to stark, trust the vaccine and the years of research behind it or risk getting covid, maybe dying. Maybe having long term health issues or passing it to someone we love who dies.
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