Coagulation device

[Tina23]

Most folks here who self-test use CoaguChek XS, INRange, and Coag-Sense devices. Note you will also need test strips, a lancing device, and lancets.

Can you tell us why your client wants to check his INR, using a portable device instead of going to the lab, when he's not on anti-coagulation therapy?

Thank you! Well he is suffering from AFib but is only taking Aspirin currently. It is a matter of time going to the lab and he wants to be independent checking on his INR. Everybody is different you know? So if he wants to buy one why not? It is his decision in the end. I just want to make sure that you can check your INR whilst not taking Warfarin. That's all. And it seems to work. Thank you very much!

 

[Superman]

Thank you! Well he is suffering from AFib but is only taking Aspirin currently. It is a matter of time going to the lab and he wants to be independent checking on his INR. Everybody is different you know? So if he wants to buy one why not? It is his decision in the end. I just want to make sure that you can check your INR whilst not taking Warfarin. That's all. And it seems to work. Thank you very much!

You can check anything. You can check your blood alcohol level even if you haven’t been drinking. You can check your nicotine level even if you haven’t been smoking.

I think most here are really confused and puzzled as to the point of it. The machines either need a prescription, or if you can find one second hand they can set you back a fair bit of cash used. The test strips and lances aren’t free either and I fully expect insurance would not cover it without a prescription (and what Dr. would write for it?).

If there was ever a case of someone really wanting to throw their money away, this is it.

 

[Tina23]

You can check anything. You can check your blood alcohol level even if you haven’t been drinking. You can check your nicotine level even if you haven’t been smoking.

I think most here are really confused and puzzled as to the point of it. The machines either need a prescription, or if you can find one second hand they can set you back a fair bit of cash used. The test strips and lances aren’t free either and I fully expect insurance would not cover it without a prescription (and what Dr. would write for it?).

If there was ever a case of someone really wanting to throw their money away, this is it.

Thank you. Yes I'm aware of all of it. In the end it is not my decision but his.

 

[Mark M]

I did not answer your posts because of your energy. You seemed to be a bit out of balance. I feel attack by your posts ... it is your tone of voice.

Tina, speaking on behalf of myself as a heart patient, a grateful “new” member and beneficiary of this forum, I am so sorry that you have had that experience, so new to this forum!! Please know that 99+ % of the forum users are really sweet, excellent, kind, supportive, enthusiastic and knowledgeable people. I’ve been watching & reading for years, and never have seen such a mean hearted smackdown, on any topic, by any user. What just happened speaks only to either a bad moment or an underlying character flaw of this one responder. Shameful. Embarrassing. Your questions deserve better. Peace to you!

 

[Superman]

Tina, speaking on behalf of myself as a heart patient, a grateful “new” member and beneficiary of this forum, I am so sorry that you have had that experience, so new to this forum!! Please know that 99+ % of the forum users are really sweet, excellent, kind, supportive, enthusiastic and knowledgeable people. I’ve been watching & reading for years, and never have seen such a mean hearted smackdown, on any topic, by any user. What just happened speaks only to either a bad moment or an underlying character flaw of this one responder. Shameful. Embarrassing. Your questions deserve better. Peace to you!

Good advice and guidance was given by @pellicle with little clarifying information provided by the op. When requests for further clarification to improve the advice were made, they were ignored. The first shot fired was, “Finally an answer I can work with”, by the OP. That was a rather rude dig at all the others who took time to provide guidance and ask for additional details to improve the advice. Advice which, by the way, was very consistent with the, “...answer I can work with.”

I feel compelled to add, when you’re excluding @pellicle as not one of the “99+ % of the forum users are really sweet, excellent, kind, supportive, enthusiastic and knowledgeable people”, you’re way off the mark. I would love to see a comparison of the number of PM’s, helpful posts about INR management, blogs maintained about the subject, willingness to not only take international calls, but also maintain tracking spreadsheets and dosing information for new members helping them self manage. All on his own dime and his own time. There really isn’t a more helpful, knowledgeable member on this forum. Offering platitudes on the forum is the easy part.

So he’s an Aussie. We can’t all be perfect.

 

[pellicle]

Hi Mark

Tina, speaking on behalf of myself as a heart patient, a grateful “new” member and beneficiary of this forum,

firstly let me ask you did you follow the thread?

secondly its clear that Tina is not a heart valve patient, is not asking for help on behalf of a heart valve patient and so has absolutely no purpose on this forum other than an attempt to pump information.

Let me introduce you to a word > community <

This is a community for Hear Valve Patients, not a wikipedia for demanding folks who are not part of our community and are here to simply pump information and further pump it in the very slant they want

As you should see if you review this thread I not only gave assistance, I gave detailed assistance. I asked for more engagement and got none. It was clear from the outset that Tina sought to spend a clients money on a tool which would not do anything for them ... except be a dummie (a bit like Tina)

Please feel free to add me to your ignore list (as I have done for Tina) so that you don't have to witness anyone calling bullshlt when confronted by a bullshltter

Best Wishes

(*oh and thanks @Superman for your kind support, I'm glad you are more "wise in the ways of the world" then good old Julien Du. A sad event that one.)

 

[Superman]

The more I think about this, the more the word, “enabler”, comes to mind. There is a a person that wants a to do something that will be of zero benefit, tell them nothing that they don’t already know, and cause them harm by spending money that they don’t need to spend. Under the guise of being helpful, this person is being enabled.

 

[Protimenow]

If your person isn't taking warfarin, his INR should be around 1.0. There would be no need to use a meter to test his INR - and AFib doesn't have any effect on INR - for people with AFib, there's the fear that a clot will form in the heart, and the clot can get into the bloodstream and cause a stroke or pulmonary embolism.

This is the reason they prescribe anticoagulants.

Afib doesn't always cause a problem, though. I have a friend who had AFib for more than 70 years, wasn't anticoagulated all that time, and had no health issues that were related to his AFib.

I fully agree about Pellicle. He's a great guy, very helpful, but with little patience when he's not being listened to.

And, if you want to see mean and nasty, you can see some old posts where I was the target, and I received some REALLY NASTY stuff.

 

[MdaPA]

Well he is suffering from AFib but is only taking Aspirin currently.

Aspirin is not an anti-coagulant and does not affect INR.

It is a matter of time going to the lab and he wants to be independent checking on his INR.

That is exactly what these devices are for but again, what is the reason why he needs to routinely check his INR?

Everybody is different you know?

Not sure what this is referring to.

So if he wants to buy one why not? It is his decision in the end.

So this is his decision, not his Dr.'s?

I just want to make sure that you can check your INR whilst not taking Warfarin.

Yes, you sure can, but it should always be around 1.0 if not on anti-coagulation therapy like warfarin. This is akin to a male taking a home pregnancy test.

 

[tom in MO]

Sorry about the bad energy directed to you Tina. There's nothing wrong with taking your INR when you don't have to, other than a waste of money and resources. But if it brings happiness to your client....let the bluebird of happiness fly

I use the Coagucheck XS. You need a testing machine, test strips and a lancets. In the US, most of us get it from a medical supply service authorized by insurance with a prescription from a doctor. But on this forum others have said, you can buy what you need unregulated on Ebay.

 

[Protimenow]

Aspirin is not an anti-coagulant and does not affect INR.


That is exactly what these devices are for but again, what is the reason why he needs to routinely check his INR?


Not sure what this is referring to.


So this is his decision, not his Dr.'s?


Yes, you sure can, but it should always be around 1.0 if not on anti-coagulation therapy like warfarin. This is akin to a male taking a home pregnancy test.

Actually, when I was doing Tumor Board at Cedars-Sinai, many years ago, one of the doctors presenting a cancer case said that his male patient DID take a home pregnancy test.

The test was positive - revealing to him and his doctor that he had a tumor that secreted the hormone that resulted in the positive test.

There ARE reasons for a man to take a pregnancy test -- but these are, of course, pretty rare.

I agree with the others (and probably also weighed in on this) : there's no good reason for this person to get a meter and self-test. His INR will be around 1.0.
Results won't tell him ANYTHING.
If he wants to waste his money like this, he can send me the money. He can call me every two or three weeks, and I can tell him that his INR is 'around 1.0.'

 

[MdaPA]

Actually, when I was doing Tumor Board at Cedars-Sinai, many years ago, one of the doctors presenting a cancer case said that his male patient DID take a home pregnancy test.

The test was positive - revealing to him and his doctor that he had a tumor that secreted the hormone that resulted in the positive test.

You learn something new everyday!

 

[pellicle]

I fully agree about Pellicle. He's a great guy, very helpful, but with little patience when he's not being listened to.

I think one of the best "references" I got was from my manager when I was an electronics tech.

She said something like "... is dilligent, hard working, and reliable but does not suffer fools gladly."

I thought Carroll was on the money with her assessment there.

 

[Eva]

Good advice and guidance was given by @pellicle with little clarifying information provided by the op. When requests for further clarification to improve the advice were made, they were ignored. The first shot fired was, “Finally an answer I can work with”, by the OP. That was a rather rude dig at all the others who took time to provide guidance and ask for additional details to improve the advice. Advice which, by the way, was very consistent with the, “...answer I can work with.”

I feel compelled to add, when you’re excluding @pellicle as not one of the “99+ % of the forum users are really sweet, excellent, kind, supportive, enthusiastic and knowledgeable people”, you’re way off the mark. I would love to see a comparison of the number of PM’s, helpful posts about INR management, blogs maintained about the subject, willingness to not only take international calls, but also maintain tracking spreadsheets and dosing information for new members helping them self manage. All on his own dime and his own time. There really isn’t a more helpful, knowledgeable member on this forum. Offering platitudes on the forum is the easy part.

We can’t all be perfect.

I second every word Superman said above! And many “old timers” feel the same way.

I’m a very patient person, but when it comes to rudeness, I have no tolerance either! I mean rudeness coming from brand new members (who even have no business to be here or haven’t contributed with any of their time or helpful knowledge to others yet) towards very helpful kind dedicated old members who sacrificed much of their times to respond to thousands of questions and who were always there anytime of the day!

Etiquette-wise, when a guest enters a family‘s home, the guest should learn about family members before judging them!

...So if he wants to buy one why not? It is his decision in the end.

If your patient has no value for money, he can unnecessarily throw about $3300 and buy one from eBay, since “it’s his decision”!
As a nutritionist (as your info says), I suggest you simply ask your patient’s doctor directly and get the answers you are seeking directly...Much wiser and easier!

This forum is for patients with heart-valve issues who need an advice before or after the surgery.
The Anticoagulation section here is a helpful guidance for this this Forum’s heart-valve members who ARE ON WARFARIN/COUMADIN/ETC. NOT for experiments!

 

[Chuck C]

I think one of the best "references" I got was from my manager when I was an electronics tech.

She said something like "... is dilligent, hard working, and reliable but does not suffer fools gladly."

I thought Carroll was on the money with her assessment there.

"does not suffer fools gladly"

You have no idea the timing of this comment!! I went for a walk with my wife recently. I was telling her about this guy on the forum from Australia who has helped me a lot in valve choice and understanding life on warfarin ect. I swear that I made that exact comment to her about you "he does not suffer fools gladly."

 

[Eva]

...
If he wants to waste his money like this, he can send me the money. He can call me every two or three weeks, and I can tell him that his INR is 'around 1.0.'

Agree. And I’ll second-proof!

 

[pellicle]

I swear that I made that exact comment to her about you "he does not suffer fools gladly."

its so much a part of my personality that I have had to really learn how to deal with it when in business. Happily in stuff up at top level exec the only place I've found fools is at the Uni ... Never had to deal with dope at GS, CSFB ML or DB

PS: happy I've been any help

 

[Chuck C]

its so much a part of my personality that I have had to really learn how to deal with it when in business. Happily in stuff up at top level exec the only place I've found fools is at the Uni ... Never had to deal with dope at GS, CSFB ML or DB

PS: happy I've been any help

You have truly been a great help, as have so many others here. Thank you. You put a lot of time in to giving people guidance and answering questions. It can be troubling when they act entitled and then don't even seem to read the response.

 

[tom in MO]

Given the right context, we are all fools. "Suffering fools" can be called kindness and patience which is a virtue in some cultures.

 

[ValveAdmin]

I have closed this thread as the replies are reasonable and the OP is not a ValveReplacement person. If her 'client" would like to join and ask their own questions that would be a good idea.
And since this is not from someone in USA or Canada, but in European Country where things are different I would recommend the client consulting with their doctor.