Buying on eBay

[Luana]

Would any of you buy an INRatio or Coaguchek on eBay? I'm thinking this might be more economical than what the copay with my insurance might be. If they cover unit and strips at 100%, great, but of course there's nothing in the EOB or EOC about home INR units and copays, so I just emailed Blue Shield about what my portion might be.

My INR has been very stable for the past 7 months, with huge thanks to the folks here, especially Ross. I had a rough time when I first came home from the hospital with a high INR, amiodarone, a home-health nurse using a unit that was way off, and feeling pretty crummy due to SOB and some other bumps I hit back then.

I've learned a lot and feel competent to test and dose at home. Again, I can't thank you guys enough for all the help given to me when I needed it, and all I've learned continuing to follow these ACT threads. You guys are the best. :angel:

 

[Ross]

As far as the forum is concerned, we only recommend authorized distributors, but your certainly free to buy from whomever you wish. Would I buy from Ebay? I'd scope out the sellers feedback very well. You never know what your getting. Last thing you want is a used unit that isn't even closely calibrated.

 

[yotphix]

I have purchased things from ebay before that were definitely not as advertised. Memory sticks and cards both, which would have lost my data if I hadn't had backups. A phone that simply didn't work and software that did not do what it was advertised to. Whether you buy from ebay or not I would strongly recommend testing your new machine against the lab you have been using by bringing it with you when you go for your draw and testing right there just before or after. I did this twice and found the results within two tenths both times. Close enough to work with. (once mine was 2/10ths low, the other 1/10th high). I do buy my strips online from a retailer who sells 48 strips for a little less than the the ebay sellers and they seem to be genuine. They certainly work.
I noticed that on Ebay some claim that the machines are 2000 dollars. That may have been true at some point but I paid 500 in the pharmacy. I was told by the pharmacist that it was msrp. Perhaps the savings wouldn't be so great in that light.

 

[Nancy]

I have both bought and sold on eBay. But I have to tell you that for something this important, I think you would be better served to buy from a dealer or pharmacy. There are terrific sellers on eBay (me for instance ), but there are also some scam artists. A lot of people sell things they don't know anything about, don't know if it is working properly, or even if all the parts are there.

Stay safe. For a few dollars more, it's worth it.

 

[Philip B]

Ebay & Comparing Results

Ebay & Comparing Results

I know several people who've purchased from e-bay suppliers and done okay. They tell me checking the expiration date on the strips is essential.

I've never had much luck with attempts to verify results from my monitor with tests from a lab... then again I've never had much luck with getting consistent results from a lab... evidently, the work performed by lab techs varies enough to make results vary widely. Something is definately not working right when the same lab tech performs INR tests within a two hour period and produces results that vary by more than 3.0.

I'm not sure comparing lab test results with those from a home monitoring unit is valid. When I first started home tesing, I tried to validate my home test results with lab testing. The differences were really stressing me out. A common theme in the anwers from those who responded to my questions here was that I was wasting my time and simply needed to trust my monitor.

I requested that my cardio doc write me a script for 48 strip packs. I ran into several suppliers who would only sell 12 stip packs. The 48 strip packs are less expensive, but you need to test often enough to avoid going over the expiration date.

-Philip

 

[Jkm7]

That is one thing I would want purchased brand new from the manufacturer's box. I would not take a chance with a re-sale of such an important item.
But that is just me.........

 

[Marty]

I've never bought anything on E-bay ,but I bought my last box of INR test strips from Amazon at a very good price.48 strips at $4.00 each. No prescription required and with one click since I am a regular customer. I would trust them with a monitor if needed. I have had my INRatio monitor for five years now and it just keeps on keepin' on. I wonder if its ever going to conk out. Great piece of equipment. Alice and I are both testing every week or so so it gets a lot of work.

 

[Ross]

I have had my INRatio monitor for five years now and it just keeps on keepin' on. I wonder if its ever going to conk out.

I've had mine for 7 years now. One of the very first models with the very first firmware. She's still functioning great. I'm in total love with the thing.

 

[catwoman]

I've had mine for 7 years now. One of the very first models with the very first firmware. She's still functioning great. I'm in total love with the thing.

Ross:
HER??
Does Lynn know you have a girlfriend?

 

[Protimenow]

I have been using meters bought on eBay since April 2009. Back then, I had a doctor friend order some test strips from a medical supplier, and it saved me a LOT of money for the strips.

Perhaps I was smart to get a ProTime meter, rather than a CoaguChek, because the ProTime runs two or four quality tests each time a test is run. Sure, it takes a bit more blood, and the strips require refrigeration, but I think you can be more confident about the results than with the other meters that require occasional quality control tests. Also, because all the blood is held inside the strip, there's no cleaning under the lid that other meters require.

I don't work for or consult with any meter manufacturer or distributor, and these are only my opinions, but I've been happy with my ProTime. (When I wasn't quite sure of the 'new' machine, I ran a test on my non-anticoagulated wife and got a .9 -- close enough to normal to be pretty confident. I had an unplanned confirmation of accuracy in December, when I had a concussion, and a hospital lab got an INR of 2.92 on its test...I tested my blood the day before - 2.9).

I have noticed the prices drop considerably for all the earlier generation meters. What the sellers don't want you to know is this -- these meters were new, used in hospitals, stored on shelves as backup machines in government hospitals, etc., etc., and were treated as 'capital' equipment. This means that, each year they had the machines, they wrote off a portion of their cost. After the meters were written down to zero - fully depreciated - it was time to dispose of them. Many meters wound up being liquidated or sold at auction, and now these 'cheap' meters - that were, in many cases the accurate workhorses at health care facilities are becoming available, often for very low money.

The meter manufacturers are careful NOT to release meters that are inaccurate or don't pass internal testing. The meter manufacturers' risks are too high to release defective meters - and probably either destroy or repair any meters that it finds, internally, to have problems. It's mostly THESE meters - perhaps a few years later - that are being sold on eBay, from what some vendors have told me.

I recently bought a CoaguChek S, brand new in the box, for a ridiculously low price I won't even mention. These were apparently sold off because they were part of a kit - Meter plus Strips, and the strips expired. The meter was still new, perfectly good, but unsellable as part of a kit because of the expired strips. Apparently, the company that built the 'kit' wasn't able to sell just the meters by themselves, so they had to dispose of the meters - very inexpensively.

Eventually, I'll probably do a QC test on this meter - but, for now, I'll probably test some non-anticoagulated friends and see how close they get to a 1.0. I'll also be simultaneously test with the CoaguChek S and the ProTime and compare the results.

I upgraded to a ProTime 3, apparently bought from a health care facility that was clearing out old meters (or something), for a very low price. I really like this meter.

I've seen ProTime meters on eBay, often for $50 or less -- and this, I think, is directly related to the sell off of fully depreciated (financially) units that were perfectly useful but were sold off because they had no depreciated value.

A few weeks ago, I got a ProTime meter that appears to have only run 6 tests - the last one in 2004. (The ProTime Meter shows the last 30 tests - storing them in Flash Memory - and this meter ONLY had six results overall. It was as new a meter as can be imagined. I'll run a test with this one, comparing it to my CoaguChek S and my ProTime 3 to confirm its usability). I bought this meter for $1 plus $5 for shipping - and it included the power supply, videotape instructions and a manual. It cost this seller more to ship it than I paid for the meter.

Some sellers will let you make an offer - so even the listed price may be flexible.

So -- long story short - I personally wouldn't, and haven't, been too concerned about buying a meter on eBay. With perhaps a few exceptions, these meters were reliable, valuable tools in medical practices in the past - and still should be. Ross loves his seven year old meter - these old meters on eBay are probably equally worthy of amorous feelings. Because of the QC performed with each test, I'd probably be more comfortable with a ProTime than with a CoaguChek or CoaguChek S unless the meter does concurrent quality control (which I think InRatio also does). I'd be a bit more concerned about buying ProTime strips on eBay because they don't survive long without refrigeration and it's hard to be sure how well they've been treated while waiting to be sold.

Of course, don't assume that I'm TELLING you what to do. I can't and I won't. Whether to pay $80 for a meter on eBay or $800 for one from a medical distributor is entirely up to you. If you think the $80 meter is a risky buy, don't buy it. If you DO buy a meter on eBay, it makes sense to compare the results of tests made on that meter to those of another meter with known accuracy or with lab results. (An easy test, too, would be on a person not taking anticoagulants -- though this may not be the best way to verify a meter's accuracy, if the results are far from 1.0, I'd be concerned about the meter) Be aware that some meters (the CoaguChek S and XS, for example), have been shown, when compared to lab tests (results are in the Professional area of the Roche CoaguChek site) to often report higher INRs a bit higher than lab tests show. Comparing a CoaguChek S results with a ProTime, for example, may show a higher difference with an actual INR of 3.8 than it would an actual INR of 2.5.

What may be most important is consistency -- if your meter regularly shows a 3.8, when a lab may show a 3.5, knowing this may allay concerns about a high INR being not quite so high. If your meter suddenly shows a 7.0, or a 1.2 - then it's a clear indication that YOU may have a problem and need to seek medical care and/or adjust your dose.

 

[nngbwh]

Personally, I don't trust Ebay. Just too many con artist out there.

 

[Protimenow]

If I was buying Flash Memory, or maybe a computer component, or other stuff, sure - I'd agree with you.
eBay has recently started policing scam artists selling counterfeit flash memory. They also have a pretty effective dispute resolution program that will get your money refunded if you get scammed.

For items like Protime meters, many of the sellers have phone numbers to call to ask questions; many are medical surplus dealers who bought this stuff as surplus and are now selling it; many have a lot of positive feedback. Other than CoaguChek PT test strips, all of the vendors seem to be located within the United States or Canada. It seems that most of the scams come from Asia - and I don't think there's enough demand for test meters to make it worthwhile for counterfeiters to make phony meters.

I haven't been uncomfortable looking for these meters on eBay, but if you are, by all means, avoid it.

 

[catwoman]

Protimenow:

Why do you have two meters?
I started with a ProTime 3 and it had problems about 1 year later. Luckily, it was under an extended warranty and was repaired free. No other problems with it. However, I knew several people who had a ProTime 3 that needed a new battery ($$ -- at least $300+). I also had some bubble errors (money down the drain!) and wanted a smaller unit. So I got a INRatio 2+ years ago.
I'm not sure why the INRatio manual says to clean it -- mine has never gotten any blood spilled on it.

Weren't you a member at one time -- under another name -- left about 1 to 1.5 years ago? If not, we had a member with very much the same profile as you. May be a twin of yours out there! You know what they say -- we all have a twin in this world!

 

[Protimenow]

Interesting thing about a twin. Do you have any idea where I can look this other person up?
There's someone else in California with a St. Jude valve?

I upgraded from the ProTime, which was doing quite well for me, to a ProTime 3. Not having seen the meter, I thought, from the pictures, that it was smaller than the original. I got a great price on it, and figured that I would upgrade. I also liked the idea that batteries could be changed. (And I figured that I had the technical abilities to replace the standard NiMh cells in the battery pack with new ones - probably for less than $20 or so).

I was curious about the other meters, which people seem to prefer, and when a vendor agreed to sell me a brand new, in the box, CoaguChek S for a ridiculously low price (that I won't even mention), and I saw that I could get test strips also for a low price, I decided to see why people preferred the CoaguChek and InRatio meters over the ProTime.

 

[Bina]

At the risk of wasting my breath.... Mr. Protimenow:

The NEW monitors are the Coaguchek XS and INRatio 2
Both have built in quality checks and are fabulous. Read their websites for the details.

 

[Protimenow]

Why would that be wasting your breath? As others are, I'm here to learn from the rest of you.

I was aware that the InRatio2 had QC built into the strip, and I haven't studied the XS. If both have QC built in, I would not be concerned about buying either the XS or InRatio2 on eBay as long as there was a return policy. On eBay, however, the best buys seem to be the last generation models, many of which are quite reasonably priced, and still very functional. My issue was QC on a CoaguChek S versus built in QC on a ProTime. I'm not especially concerned with accuracy on my NEW CoaguChek S - especially if I can simultaneously test on the ProTime and compare results.

 

[Nancy]

Just be careful about the used ones. How do you know just how "used" they are. They could have come from a doctor's office and had been in use every day all day long for a few years. I'm sure there would be no warranty on that type.

And check out the seller's return policies. Some sellers do not accept returns, then you have to hassle your way through a process with PayPal or eBay to get your money back. Some sellers will accept returns but will not return your "return" postage, only the price of the item itself. And definitely check out the seller's feedback.

Make sure you pay through PayPal using your credit card, and not your PayPal balance or an echeck. That way, if anything is wrong, you can do a chargeback through your credit card company.

I could only find these by doing a search in all categories using the word protime. I only saw 12 related products, not all machines.

 

[Protimenow]

Great advice Nancy. I included some of that in my post, too. It's certainly less risky buying new from a medical supplies dealer, but it's also usually much more costly. My experience, so far, with the sellers of these new and used meters has been completely positive.

As far as 'how used' a meter is -- it's often hard to tell. From what I understand about the components of these meters, there aren't many parts that could be worn out. They were, probably without exception, manufactured for continuous frequent use -- the manufacturer wouldn't have known if they were going into the home of a person who does 26 tests a year, or to a doctor or clinic that does 26 tests a DAY. These had to be made for both.

One concern - and it may only relate to ProTime, which uses a rechargeable battery, is how many charge/recharge cycles the meter went through. A meter that doesn't hold its charge can be a real pain to use - although, if necessary, you could probably do the test with the meter plugged in to the charger.

Again, I'm not advocating that anybody who doesn't want to use eBay (or another auction site, for that matter) should shop on eBay, and I know that the forum won't advise buying from anyone other than an authorized supplier. There is a possible risk involved with any sale on eBay - and it's sometimes good to check the feedback of the seller, and if possible, to check with the seller who might have a phone number in the listing. It also doesn't hurt to question the seller about the meter, support, or whatever -- eBay has an Ask The Seller link built into each item's page. You should, of course, be comfortable with the choice you've made, with the seller, with the return policies and, perhaps, with the amount of money you're willing to risk on the sale.

(As far as searches on eBay - ProTime will often bring up a clothing line in addition to the meters - and sometimes even CoaguChek meters. Coaguchek brings up meters, strips and QC machines mostly, and InRatio or Hemosense usually bring up HemoSense and Hemosense2 meters, chargers, strips and little cuvettes. Knowing how to search is half the challenge)

 

[Nancy]

Here are various search results on eBay, in case anyone is looking for a machine.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=protime&_sacat=See-All-Categories

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=he...protime&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=In...mosense&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Co...InRatio&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

 

[catwoman]

As far as 'how used' a meter is -- it's often hard to tell. From what I understand about the components of these meters, there aren't many parts that could be worn out. They were, probably without exception, manufactured for continuous frequent use -- the manufacturer wouldn't have known if they were going into the home of a person who does 26 tests a year, or to a doctor or clinic that does 26 tests a DAY. These had to be made for both.

One concern - and it may only relate to ProTime, which uses a rechargeable battery, is how many charge/recharge cycles the meter went through. A meter that doesn't hold its charge can be a real pain to use - although, if necessary, you could probably do the test with the meter plugged in to the charger.

The owners' manual for my ProTime 3 did specify how many charges you could expect out of a brand-new battery. Unfortunately, I don't remember that info and I passed my unit on to a friend whose insurance had said Heck No to providing an INR tester. Do you have such a manual for your ProTime 3?
Seems like I recharged mine about every 4-6 months.