Apology

[Barry]

I'd begun threads on controversial topics for the stated reason that I wanted to find out the opinions of folks at these forums, folks who are more mature and well-informed than those at most forums, on the more difficult issues facing the United States today. This seems to have led a number of folks to think that motivation couldn't be true, that I must have some hidden agenda, or that I'm merely a troll.

I know I did annoy a number of folks here, and if you're one of them, I sincerely apologize to you. I hadn't realized that these forums are not an appropriate place to discuss the more difficult issues facing the United States today, and that topics must be related to heart valve replacement.

 

[Ross]

I think you've pretty much got the jest of how this forum operates now. There are places for those topics, but it's not here obviously. I believe it's possible to coexist without further complications now.

 

[Wise]

I've noticed a lot of people asking forgiveness lately, including me. Well, as for me you're forgiven, but to borrow from your own words in another thread, but not forgotten. What I mean is I'll never forget the people I've grown to be so fond of here at vr.com.

 

[Barry]

...There are places for those topics, but it's not here obviously....

Any suggestions what places would be best? Some of us folks with valve replacements don't get out much and would enjoy a civil and intelligent discussion of controversial subjects.

But a lot of other forums have forum members not so mature and well-informed as folks here, and instead of discussions they have flame-wars and personal attacks.

Others are very partisan and don't represent the wide spectrum of interests and beliefs found here: For one example, on the abortion issue there are forums for folks who are pro-life and there are forums for folks who are pro-choice - but there don't seem to be any forums that provide for discussion between folks of the two perspectives. This seems to be true of just about all the forums devoted to a specific issue.

 

[Wise]

Have you ever thought of forming such a forum? Seriously. You would be the perfect person for it. Since you're not out much, hey why not becoming the Ross of the CIDCS forum? CIDCS (civil & intelligent discussion of controversial subjects)...but, since I know nothing of the how to, time involved, expense and whatever, I'm not a good one to suggest it, I guess.

 

[Ross]

If you want to start your own free forum for such a pupose as suggested, check this out:

http://invisionfree.com/

Other then that, you could ask Philip at http://forums.speedguide.net/index.php? if he minds. They've had their share lately, so I don't think he'll be too receptive of the idea, but they do have some serious debates in there general forum.
His description of the general forum:

General discussions pertaining to anything not covered in another forum. You may discuss life, the universe etc... Please keep them PG-13 and avoid spam.

 

[Barry]

Good idea wise smith, and great link, Ross: I went there and it's been done, and there are links to the sort of forums I'm looking for. If anyone else is looking for the CIDCS forum that wise smith suggests:

http://invisionfree.com/directory.php?cat=6

 

[Ross]

I never knew about that index or I'd of said something. Anyhow, were here for your heart parts etc, but in all honesty, I think you'd be much happier with your own and where you can control the discussions.

 

[Wise]

Great

Great

news Barry. I had no idea it could be set up so quickly. I feel like I've had a hand in the making of history...woohoo. Anway, good luck and I have a feeling you'll have a fast growing forum on your hands. I'll have to stop in and check it out from time to time. I'm a really bad debater, I confess, and am envious of those of you who have the mind and stamina for it.

 

[Ross]

That's mainly why I mentioned speedguide. Yes they have some immatures, but they also have some very brilliant minds too.

 

[Harpoon]

I think you've pretty much got the jest of how this forum operates now. There are places for those topics, but it's not here obviously. I believe it's possible to coexist without further complications now.

That's pretty low and mean...

This isn't the place to discuss anything that DOESN'T revolve around valve replacement surgery???

Well then in that case, you should close up the small talk forum.

Maybe the recipes forum and significant others forums too.

This site should JUST be fore patients and physicians who deal with issues revolving around heart valve replacement.

No discussion about relatives and friends with cancer, no discussions about current events (unless they're related to valve replacement) No discussion about pediatric heart conditions (unless they're related to valve replacement, oh wait, they COULD BE...)


Hmmm...


What the hell can we talk about then?


Sorry but, for one, I'd like to be able to NOT TALK about valve replacement once in a while.

We are human, some of us have some pretty rich lives that go well beyond a bum heart valve. Some of us have opinions that are not only worth sharing, but worth listening to as well.

And some of us don't get out much. Some of us are on oxygen therapy, suffer from CHF or are wheelchair bound. Some of us can't leave the hosue when the air temperature is below 40 degrees.

We are all human Ross and sometimes we like to share things that don't neccesarily relate to the topic at hand, that's the nature of being human, the nature of communication.

If we can't be who we are here, why should we be here?

And if someone doesn't like what I have to say, no one ever said you have to read it!!!

By the way, that's my biggest beef with media sensorship. I you don't like what Howard Stern is saying, don't listen to his radio show.

If you don't like what HBO is broadcasting, don't PAY for HBO.

If you don't like seeing scantily clad 30 somethings "stranded" on a deserted island in front of a TV production crew, don't watch Survivor!

If you don't like Mel Gibson's movie about The Passion, don't pay the 7 bucks to see it in theaters or whatever the rental fee is!

Just sayin' is all, I'll go shut up now since I'm not talking about heart valve replacement issues.... Sorry for any inconvienience that I might have inadvertently caused anyone who's reading these forums on a dreary afternoon instead of reading a good book or tending to their gardens....

 

[geebee]

I am feeling really guilty here.

I am feeling really guilty here.

I am stressing big time because I feel that my dialogue with another member is some of the reason the choice was made to remove all topics outside of valve/heart issues. I do realize that a couple of other controvesial topics have come up recently but the Terri thread seems to be the catalyst.

As I have stated, I truly regret my part in that fiasco. My emotions sometimes leave the protected confines of good sense and I will not allow that to continue.

I would hate to ruin small talk for everyone else. One of the major complaints I have always had with companies & institutions is that the majority suffers for the few questionable actions.

I would offer to not post anymore if I thought it would cause others to once again have the free use of the small talk forum (assuming the others have self control ).

 

[Ross]

Harpoon your missing the point. What we are saying is nothing short of, "No machine gun posting of controversial topics". It's bad enough to have one thread going all to pot and having 2, 3 or 4 more start when tensions are all ready stressed to capacity.

One every once in a while is tolerable. It's not strictly all heart related, but to mind what this site is for, which is heart surgery and support. Once a little flame gets going, people are drawn to the fire whether they really want to or not. Next thing you know, there are new people in the other forums going completely unnoticed and unanswered.

Hank and I both received alot of complaints about it, so obviously it was a problem. Did those threads get deleted? NO. We asked Barry to please stop and he did so. We thank him for that. It isn't just Ross saying NO. It's the majority of members. I do nothing at all unless I start getting complaints. When I've had my fill, I start sending them to Hank and he makes the final decision on what happens. Chain of command if you will, but it's not all Ross and it's not Ross's forum.

My comment you quoted was not meant to be low or mean, only to reflect that I believe we have reached a conclusion that everyone can live with. Barry if you took it any other way, I appologize to you.

The whole point in a nutshell-If you want to debate controversial and heated subjects one after another, there are other places to do so. VR is not one of them.

 

[gadgetman]

Gina,

Take a deep breath--in--out--in--out--in--out------I'm getting lightheaded

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't stop typing. We need a couple (or half a dozen) here to reel us "crazies" in every once in a while.

MOMMY, I WON'T DO IT NO MO (as I have my fingers crossed at my back)

Harpoon,

DITTO, somewhat. I just ask everyone here to get along and keep typing those comments, recommendations, suggestions, etc. I think we got something here for everybody.

Barry,

Don't think you have much (see I said MUCH--tongue in cheek--where's that smilie???? ) to apologize for. You are just speaking your mind (what's left of it --Ooops ). Post your new webside address (or E-Mail me) and I'll go there and complain . Just don't become a stranger here .

May God Bless Each and Everyone,

Danny

 

[tobagotwo]

Maybe my reading comprehension has dropped a few notches after being on the pump, but I didn't see where non-valve-related discussion was universally denied. I understood it was just when subjects get too hot or controversial and threaten the main focus of the site.

Nor would I blame Gina or Barry or anyone for it (and I don't feel that anyone really is). It's human nature to get excited about topics that touch us too closely. Trying to halt it is like stopping the tide. You can try, but in the end it happens anyway, and you're all wet.

Relax...deep breath...read forums...post...enjoy...

Best wishes,

 

[Barry]

gadgetman, I won't be starting up a forum - but at the index at the link provided by Ross it appears that there already are some forums established for civil and intelligent discussion of controversial topics.

tobagatwo (and others), while I, myself, certainly see no problem with civil and intelligent discussion of controversial topics here, clearly my attempts to spark such discussions here have offended some here. And thus the apology; an apology generally is required when one offends another person, whether intentionally or not.

What I do have a problem with is when a thread devolves into flame wars, personal attacks, and just plain being rude - and I've got a problem with that no matter what the topic. Although avoiding controversial topics I guess minimizes that happening.

At any rate, I have no problem with the administrators here establishing ground rules that I may not agree with. It's their forum - I see it sort of like establishing house rules for when folks visit your home. They're not required to agree with them, but they're required to abide by them if they want to be in your home - and it's your home, so you don't need to even bother trying to justify your house rules.

 

[geebee]

I think I got it now.

I think I got it now.

We just need to go above and beyond to make sure things stay civil in those occasional topics that we feel involve all of us. Most of us are affected by big news issues and want to say a word or 2 or 3. However, volleys need to disappear no matter how much we disagree with another's viewpoint. We need to remember that we are all entitled to our views and debating them will not do anything except flame the fires. We cannot change the zebra's stripes nor do we have the right to try and do so, at least on this site .

Now, on to TEEs, coumadin and the sex (as it relates to valve surgery) thread

 

[Mary]

Barry,
Your last post demonstrates a level of civility that I appreciate. Thank you very much for being such a good sport.

 

[Barry]

...We need to remember that we are all entitled to our views and debating them will not do anything except flame the fires...

I, on the other hand, think that people are quite capable of civil discussion of matters upon which they passionately disagree, and that such discussion is both interesting and helpful.

 

[Rain]

The goody two shoes drive me nuts!!

The goody two shoes drive me nuts!!

Wouldn?t it be interesting to know if it isn?t the same darn people complaining to Ross every time they (get their panties in a bind).... as someone said. lol