Am I being too harsh?

[debster913]

OK, I know there are other teachers on this forum besides me, but anyone is welcome to put in his/her opinion here.

Here's the deal:
I teach 10th grade Honors English. As part of our Honors curriculum, students are required to complete a summer reading project that is due the first day of school. Two weeks before school was out, all prospective 10th grade Honors English kids were given their project assignments through their 9th grade teachers and also attended a meeting with me during lunch.

Anyway, I gave the kids my school e-mail address so in case any of them had any questions about the project, I could answer them. I've heard from a few who were befuddled about some minor aspects of the project so I clarified things for them. Today, though, I got an e-mail from a kid who is currently in Asia for some kind of summer-long institute. He asked me for an extension on the project because he said he would not be able to complete the project on time. He said he wouldn't be coming back to California until Sept. 1. School starts the 5th.

I wrote to him that I could not give him the extension since he'd known about the project before school ended and it was not fair to other students to give extensions on this assignment.

Think that was fair enough?

Thanks in advance for replies--

Debi (debster913)

 

[Susan BAV]

I'm not a teacher but my mother was and my dad was a substitute and my sons were in California GATE and Honors programs and classes. I think I'd probably let just that one kid slide. He's hopefully been improving his language skills by just trying to keep up with whatever Asian language he's immersed in. Maybe you can add something to his assignment related to his summer experiences?

On the other hand, trust your instincts.

 

[Duff Man]

What about a late penalty?

 

[Ross]

First off feeling is, this is an exception. I'd like to know more about the said student. Has this person made a habit in the past of being late on projects or is this truly because of this summer long institute deal? If the person is a known slacker, then no, no exception, but if not, it might very well be a legitimate excuse.

 

[geebee]

It seems hard for me to believe this student did not know about the trip to Asia back when the meeting with you took place. If it was indeed a summer-long trip, it had to have been pre-planned and he would have known 2 weeks before school was out. Why was this only now brought up and via email? Something sounds a bit fishy here and I would be wondering also if he just didn't plan his time properly and is now using the trip as an excuse.

 

[Dina]

My first thought after reading your post was the same as Aaron's -a
late penalty. That is what happened to me a couple times, I feel its
a pretty good compromise.

 

[Superbob]

Late penalty sounds like a reasonable solution to me, too.

Now I know, 50 years later, that teachers fret over these things -- they don't just enjoy being taskmasters.

 

[Mary]

Was he a student that you met with last Spring?
It's possible that he knew of the trip, but the dates may have changed after school ended.
I would talk to one of his parents to determine exactly what happened.
Having taught middle school students, I'm confident that you will hear feedback from this boy's parents if he's not given the extension, so I would initiate the contact.

 

[bvdr]

Deb, I think it is way too harsh. I think if it was Christmas vacation or something that would be different but summer vacation? I grew up in a family that would head south for several weeks every winter. It was a time my dad had minimal work and our teachers always worked with us and were really flexible. I'm sure this kid learned more this summer being in Asia than any school assignment. Have a heart Deb and give the kid a break.

 

[perrypiratesdad]

My first question is why didn't he approach you sooner? I'm sure the kid is a smart student, or he wouldn't be in your class, so I don't think he would be a slacker. Personally, I don't think you are being too harsh. Children have to learn from their mistakes. I think the problem he is having right now is he can't get a book where he is, so he is sort of stuck. Well, he should have thought of that before he went on this Summer long program.

The other question is, how much of the kids grade are we talking about?

Personally, I think the student should learn a lesson in personal responsibilities. Sometimes life isn't fair (we all know that), and this might be a good lesson for this person to learn. Granted, you want to see the student succeed, but the student has to earn that, and not have it handed to him.

 

[cday]

As to why the boy has just now contacted her - Uh, he's a teenager. He got the assignment and promptly put it out of his head until the last second. When did each of you begin your summer reading in High School? The weekend before -- maybe -- no, just go get the Cliff Notes.

As a mother, I would want there to be consequences. And I am positive there will be others that first day who will not have their paper ready -- the same rule should apply to them.

I vote for the 10 pts off for each X number of days late OR no late papers, period. I figure the deadline lessons one learns in high school are pretty cheap lessons.

Cindy

 

[perrypiratesdad]

I figure the deadline lessons one learns in high school are pretty cheap lessons.

Cindy

I agree... if you don't learn them then, then in college or in the workplace they will be much harsher.

 

[Duff Man]

I think disallowing the assignment to be turned in late would be draconian. I have professors now that would give me a 10% penalty within X number of days. Usually the syllabus outlines what action is taken for late assignments. Do you have a course syllabus? I think a syllabus would be useful and probably warranted for an Honors English class. I've always thought that ideally a teacher should be impartial and have a set of guidelines in place before a situation arises. What type of kid he is shouldn't matter so much as what the rules are for everyone.

 

[Lisa in Katy]

As a parent of two kids in Pre-AP/AP English, I can tell you that I absolutely detest the summer reading assignments. They've had them since the summer after 5th grade and it's always a chore for me to ensure that they read the book - more so for my son, but even for my daughter. My kids read, but some of these books are so extremely boring that I would have a hard time reading. I wish the kids were given a variety of books to choose from so they could pick one that met their interests. The last few years they've been given 2 or 3 books to choose from, but the year before 9th grade all 3 had to do with King Arthur, and were well over 500 pages long.
Anyway, that being said, my kids still were responsible for doing the work. They learned that sometimes you have to do things that you don't like.

I would want more details from this kid and you. When did he leave for Asia? Is it just a reading assignment, or is there a project. If there's a project, what are we talking about? He could have been reading in his spare time and the project could possibly be finished in 5 days, depending on how elaborate it is. If he was truly gone all summer and the project is elaborate, I would give him a break.

 

[perrypiratesdad]

Aaron... I agree with what you are saying, but I bet the syllabus would be handed out on the first day of class, so I'm not sure that would help any in this situation.

Lisa... I hear what you are saying, as all my kids in High-School and before had to do summer reading assignments. I guess my kids were fortunate though as they were given great freedom to choose from a large list of appropriate reading material. Now my oldest this year, had the choice of picking his own books to read and just having them approved by the teacher before school let out.

I agree, it's a pain to keep the kids focused on them, but, it also keeps their brains active and working through the summer.

 

[Marguerite53]

I don't know what kind of a kid this is. I do know that our oldest son only got 1 B in all of high school. He took the maximum load of Honors courses possible (having to actually drive to Reed College -- top 10 -- for math in his senior year). While in Honors English, his uncle had a tragic accident. We were up all night as he was in surgery (he ended up paralyzed). This was the night before a very important test in Honors English. He did poorly. She knew of the situation and was impressed that he came in to take the test, but then would not let him re-take it. It brought his grade to a B. THAT was harsh. Of course, the kids who took basket-weaving and got straight A's made Valedictorian...he did not. He did get into his first choice college. He is on complete Fellowship now for a PhD at a major university. But, he will always remember that test and that grade and that teacher; and not favorably.

Much of teaching is about building the relationships with the student. Is this a kid who you would build a good relationship with? Promising? Are your strict rules worth starting out the whole year on a bad note? I know this is a different situation from my son's, but looking at it from the student's angle... and he is in touch with you a month in advance!!! Is this how you want to start off your relationship with him? Is this how you want to be remembered?

Just a thought!

Marguerite

 

[geebee]

I understand all that is being said here but we need to remember that school is a rehearsal for life. If a person is out in the business world and has a presentation due that will make or break a deal, there is no room for delays. Funerals, vacations, illnesses, etc. do not matter when you are talking about a business deal.

That being said, I still think the student should be talked to about what transpired. He needs to realize the ramifications of his actions and that excuses just might not cut it. I know that there never used to be vacation assignments but those days, just like the days of $1/gallon gas, are over.

I know he is a teenager but, at just what age should we expect our kids to become responsible? This student chose to participate in the honors program which has certain requirements and standards. If his schedule was going to conflict, perhaps he should have made another decision. Is it fair to the students who will meet the deadline to allow a delay for this student? I am sure their vacation was disrupted also.

 

[debster913]

Hi, all--

Wow, I had no idea there would be such a variety of replies! Of course, I did ask for your opinions, and that's exactly what I got.

I give the summer reading project because it is a departmental requirement, and I realize that it does give my students a head-start on the literary devices and concepts we'll be learning throughout the year.

I am strict with my deadlines because my class is lovingly named "English II Pre-AP" by my former students. I know that most of my students will take the AP class the following year, and I also know that the AP teacher is very much like me: down-to-earth and fun, but a deadline is a deadline. I don't want to give all kinds of exceptions to kids because I've done that before with dire results. My job is to train these kids for the AP class, and they have to work hard in both my class and the AP class junior year. Sometimes, though, once I've established discipline and rapport with my students, I will extend deadlines, but for the whole class.

But, thanks again though!
Debi (debster913)

 

[debster913]

Another thing I forgot to mention--I used to be a journalist before I became a teacher. As nice as my editors were, and even as an editor at one time myself, I never got or gave extensions on deadlines. I think the reason is obvious--there wouldn't be a newspaper!

 

[Susan BAV]

I don't know what kind of a kid this is. I do know that our oldest son only got 1 B in all of high school. He took the maximum load of Honors courses possible (having to actually drive to Reed College -- top 10 -- for math in his senior year). While in Honors English, his uncle had a tragic accident. We were up all night as he was in surgery (he ended up paralyzed). This was the night before a very important test in Honors English. He did poorly. She knew of the situation and was impressed that he came in to take the test, but then would not let him re-take it. It brought his grade to a B. THAT was harsh. Of course, the kids who took basket-weaving and got straight A's made Valedictorian...he did not. He did get into his first choice college. He is on complete Fellowship now for a PhD at a major university. But, he will always remember that test and that grade and that teacher; and not favorably...

This reminds me again... I still angrily recall the ridiculously harsh assignments one of my sons was given when we had to travel cross-country when a close relative died. He had to produce more busy-work than if he had physically been in his classes and he wasn't even missing anything significant for that week. I was shocked at how unreasonable and lazy those teachers were--my sons were both always very well-respected by their teachers--and that son's situation definitely did not warrant a "one size fits all" assignment for one of the "my dog ate my homework" kids. (My other son had already graduated when this happened.)

But I see your point too, Debi, that a deadline is a deadline. And this student you are discussing did have months to get organized.