A week after surgery, my story

[dreamy885]

Jeepers thats no good, at least you will know your INR shortly, I found this for you

http://inrtracker.com/nutrients/vitamin-k-in-spices-cinnamon-ground

If the only thing you ate today were cinnamon (ground, spices). You would have to eat 37.04 tbsps in order to get your 100% recommended daily value of 90mcg of Vitamin K.



Similarly, in order to get 50% (45mcg) of your daily recommended value of Vitamin K. You would have to eat 18.52 tbsps of cinnamon (ground, spices).

Additionally, you would have to eat 9.26 tbsps of cinnamon (ground, spices) to get 25% (22.5mcg) of your recommended daily Vitamin K.

Yea it's the Coumarin I'm worried about. It's the only thing I can think of that could have raised my INR. The only different thing I've eaten since the day before this happened.

 

[Warrick]

Yea it's the Coumarin I'm worried about. It's the only thing I can think of that could have raised my INR. The only different thing I've eaten since the day before this happened.

So you have probably found theres 2 types of cinnamon and one can affect it a lot more than the other

"Ceylon cinnamon has a lower coumarin content than cassia cinnamon, which has up to 63 times more, according to ScienceDaily.com. Nonetheless, it is next to impossible to differentiate between the two when you're shopping for cinnamon."

"(Although it sounds like Coumadin, it isn’t at all the same compound.) Some people are susceptible to liver damage if they take too much of this spice.

Coumarin affects drug metabolizing enzymes CYP 2D6 and 3A4. As a result, it might theoretically interact with the anticoagulant warfarin as well as with a number of blood pressure medications."

I assume they don't have a coaguchek meter at the ER

 

[dreamy885]

So you have probably found theres 2 types of cinnamon and one can affect it a lot more than the other

"Ceylon cinnamon has a lower coumarin content than cassia cinnamon, which has up to 63 times more, according to ScienceDaily.com. Nonetheless, it is next to impossible to differentiate between the two when you're shopping for cinnamon."

"(Although it sounds like Coumadin, it isn’t at all the same compound.) Some people are susceptible to liver damage if they take too much of this spice.

Coumarin affects drug metabolizing enzymes CYP 2D6 and 3A4. As a result, it might theoretically interact with the anticoagulant warfarin as well as with a number of blood pressure medications."

I assume they don't have a coaguchek meter at the ER

Yes I've been doing a lot of reading about cinnamon since my hunch started tonight. The doctor ordered some other labs so it wasn't the finger prick test.

 

[dreamy885]

Okay so I was all wrong, my INR wasn't high, it came back at 2.1 and that's with me having skipped my dose earlier tonight. I'm very glad I came in and got it checked and didn't blindly follow that doctor's advice to hold it for 3 days!! The doc was able to finally see a tiny pinhole spot on my gums where he said was probably the end of a blood vessel. He put silver nitrate on it to give me a chemical scab and said to continue my Warfarin as usual.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

... my INR wasn't high, it came back at 2.1 ...
.... I'm very glad I came in and got it checked and didn't blindly follow that doctor's advice to hold it for 3 days!! The doc was able to finally see a tiny pinhole spot on my ...

I'm so glad that you've got a good resolution there.

Glad that you didn't just "tough it out" and glad that you have a resolution and an explanation for the cause of the bleed.

So you don't get to take a "bleed event" card from the pack.

I'm relieved and glad you're ok.

Best Wishes

 

[pellicle]

Oh..

...my INR wasn't high, it came back at 2.1 and that's with me having skipped my dose earlier tonight.

it takes longer than that to dip, so you'll probably hit down to under 2 in a day or so, so I'd suggest you take another 50% above your normal dose tomorrow night (when this bleeder has stopped). That'll probably bring you up to about 2.8 later on, but that's not a bad figure at all

at least you know know cinnamon isn't a culprit

 

[pellicle]

and Warrick , great detective research too mate ;-)

 

[dreamy885]

Hi



I'm so glad that you've got a good resolution there.

Glad that you didn't just "tough it out" and glad that you have a resolution and an explanation for the cause of the bleed.

So you don't get to take a "bleed event" card from the pack.

I'm relieved and glad you're ok.

Best Wishes

Okay, I put the "bleed event" card back! However I'll take that card any day over the opposite card. I'll feel much better once I start home testing. I'm going to start looking on eBay right now, I'm just not positive which lancets to get and if eBay is the best place to buy those and the strips. But I already emailed you about that

 

[Agian]

and Warrick , great detective research too mate ;-)

He cracked the cinnamon case didn't he? He's been promoted to the herbs and spices department.

 

[dreamy885]

He cracked the cinnamon case didn't he? He's been promoted to the herbs and spices department.

Haha Well I had already spent hours reading those pages before I came here. The doctor didn't seem to think it could do much unless you were taking teaspoonfuls of it. And as my INR reflected, he was right! Just a weird coincidence that I ended up bleeding the day I had a couple bars with cinnamon!

 

[Warrick]

I'm more a stinging nettles and dock leaves kinda guy...

 

[Warrick]

Yep great out come Heather and I've certainly gained some valuable knowledge for my INR life toolbox in the process

 

[pellicle]

Yep great out come Heather and I've certainly gained some valuable knowledge for my INR life toolbox in the process

It's in solving problems that I learn most too

 

[pellicle]

He cracked the cinnamon case didn't he? He's been promoted to the herbs and spices department.

Cinnamon proved to be barking up the wrong tree

Nutmeg is the harder nut to crack

 

[pellicle]

I'm more a stinging nettles and dock leaves kinda guy...

Always be careful which dead leaf you use to wipe with I say

 

[pellicle]

...Just a weird coincidence that I ended up bleeding the day I had a couple bars with cinnamon!

Indeed, and it's exactly this sort of coincidence that drives conclusions reached by less rigorous investigations. So when you get your little device and begin testing, make sure you write things down. Cos its it's easy to see your INR go up and blame something, but it can emerge later (say, next time you eat that) your INR went down. Making clear it was a coincidence not a cause.



I'd said in an earlier post that you'd need more

...
myself I wouldn't put my money on that ... because a) you'd need a LOT of cinnamon b) the effect would last longer.

Not sure if you'd spotted that point.

Glad your Dr was also on the same page

 

[vivekd]

Any Lab Test centers usually offer PT/INR tests. You can usually walk in for a test there (in case).

https://www.anylabtestnow.com/tests/prothrombin-time-and-international-normalized-ratio-ptinr-test/