1st Anti-coag question (i think)

[Karlynn]

Magic - I'm predicting you're gong to be a pretty cheap date the first few times you have a drink or two. It won't take much - so be careful not to get wobbly and fall down.

 

[Magic8Ball]

Sorry my math was out this morning...

I meant, if you are saying 2 pints of 5% beer is ok i'd rather drink 4 pints of 2.5% beer. Athought not now, the thought of it just turns my stomach

I.e. Its not the alcohol i'm chasing but the social aspect.

As i said earlier, finding a good non-alcoholic beer will fix my problem.

 

[Guest]

The answer is that nobody knows the answer. What I tell people is that I have never seen anyone who had a problem with two drinks. I don't know if three drinks causes problems for some people, or nobody. I haven't seen any tests to show limits. You have to find what works for you.

 

[alex c.]

What about hard liquor? My warfarin clinic rep said, 2 beers a day is ok. How does that translate to say a whisky with soda? or a cranberry vodka drink? I don't drink much myself, if anything just socially, but how does that compare to the two beers? I'm sure 2 rum and cokes is more than 2 light beers, but is it still safe?

 

[Magic8Ball]

What about hard liquor? My warfarin clinic rep said, 2 beers a day is ok. How does that translate to say a whisky with soda? or a cranberry vodka drink? I don't drink much myself, if anything just socially, but how does that compare to the two beers? I'm sure 2 rum and cokes is more than 2 light beers, but is it still safe?

I've picked up that a few guys on this forum will have a whiskey and soda of an evening but only one, its 37% alcohol usually but of course its a lower volume of liquid, if you stick to pub measures 1 shot is roughly the same as 1 beer.

I tried this before my surgery as i was a vodka drinker and shockingly realised that i didn't like it that much to just have one good quality one....therefore the search for a good low alcohol beer...ive found a couple with less than 0.5% in them so just got to try them for taste.

Unfortunately as Al has said, there is no exact science.

 

[Magic8Ball]

Well after doing 3 tests at 2.8 i have now done a test at 3 and now today a test at 3.2.

So technically i'm out of range but understand that the testing can be out a bit so i'm still in range (2-3).

I'm not worried just a little confused... from everything ive read i should be getting a lower inr as i become more active etc and the body acustoms itself to the dosage during these early weeks of recovery.

The doc says keep taking 6mg a day and retest in 5 days, if its gone up again we may need to consider a dosage change...sound fair?

From the discussions above + my inr level + christmas would it still be fair to partake of the odd low alcohol beer or glass of wine this christmas week? As stated above, 1-2 beers or a normal glass of wine should not affect my INR...

Also, on a diet front this is the week where everyone overindulges, my appetite is not back for large meals but does anyone think that the odd extra cream pudding/trifle and the slightly richer food has an affect on INR or is it purely just vitamin K content?

I'd hate to retest in 5 days and have a higher inr again and then change doseage based on the fact i've ate too many sweet mince pies + cream.. only to have it plumet to 2.2 5 days later when its not christmas week and i'm even more active being one extra week post surgery....

Sorry to ask the same question different ways i'm just really thrown that my INR seems to be going up rather than down....i really thought i'd have a 2.6 or lower this test and be talking to the GP about possibly upping my warafin dose on alternate days to compensate

 

[Ross]

If it's still climbing after the next test, back off by around 5 to 10% you total weekly dose and test again in one week. Enjoy your holiday foods and drinks! Diet plays a very small role in your INR. Just don't sit down and eat 2 or 3 bags of spinich and tons upon tons of broccoli.

 

[Guest]

Just don't eat puddings made from green vegetables!! HA! HA!

 

[Magic8Ball]

Saw my GP today for my wound issue and he suggested i drop down to 5mg a day as my INR seems to be steadily rising.

With it being christmas week and a none standard diet i questioned the benefit of doing it this week and in the end we agreed to do 5mg one day and 6mg the next then 5/6 on alternate days and test on thursday.

He asked if i'd introduced alcohol into my diet again and appart from 1 bottle of 2.5% low alcohol beer i had not.

I'm still surprised its rising and fully expect it to drop soon due to the extra activity i now have but will make this small change just to see.

 

[Magic8Ball]

Well i left it a week before testing this time and after a fairly normal christmas and boxing day my latest inr is 3.1.

I will wait nearly a week before testing again.

At least i got through the holiday period without a sharp drop or rise in the INR even though i drank a bottle of wine over a couple of days...shocking i know

 

[Ross]

Nothing wrong with 3.1. I'd stay where you are!

 

[Wayne G]

Confused

Confused

HI everyone havn't posted for awhile but have been lurking around a lot. I take 5mg 6 days a week and 7.5 1 day. I can't seem to put two good weeks together. Last week I was 2.6 now yesterday I was 4.5. I know Al has said 95% of your INR is what you put in your mouth but I swear I havn't changed a thing from last week to this week. Had my first valve in May of this year and was bouncing from week to week first high then low then high, had second valve Sept of this year and it's been the same...all this without drinking any alcohol ( my clinic tell me even a sip of wine at Christmas could account for my increase this week.) They want me to eat the same number of serving's of green veggies from week to week I missed one week and didnt take the same number of serving's and they tell me this is a cause also. I havn't added any new meds or take motrin or aleve. This week they have me on 5 mg 7 days....this is frustrating as hell...any suggestions?

 

[Karlynn]

Wayne, what is your range? And are you out of range a lot, or just spending most of the time bouncing around in the range with an occasional out of range?

Have they been adjusting your dose a lot?

Do you have a pill organizer?

It's probably possible, but I doubt it has to do with the # of servings of greens you have. Making you eat a certain number of servings of greens each week is much to much micromanaging, IMHO. Particularly since "greens" all have differing amounts of K. Iceberg lettuce has much less K than spinach. Unless there is some issue with your blood chemistry that they are aware of and thus have to be highly restrictive of your diet, making you be so diligent about greens really does very little. Most people's eating habits do not vary all that much.

I can't tell you the last time I put food in my mouth and though "Wonder how much K is in that?"

When Al says it has to do with what you put in your mouth, I don't think he's referring as much to the average diet as he is to incidental or occasional things. It could be antibiotics, meal replacement products (known for a lot of K), pain relievers and other meds, herbal remedies etc. I think the medical profession spends too much time making people concerned about their average diet and not as much time on the other things that have a more pronounced effect on INR.

 

[Ross]

Any clinic that has me eating a said amount of veggies is one I'd run away from! It probably has nothing to do with you, it's most likely them. I know you said no new meds, but what do you put in your mouth every day? Diet plays a very small role in INR management, almost not worth mentioning really.

 

[Wayne G]

More Info

More Info

I use a pill organizer for sure..and I havn't drank alcohol since May. No new meds since I got out of the hospital but this last increase of almost 2 points was WITHOUT any change in Med's booze or diet...in the past they have always adjusted my dose either up or down mostly between 35mg to 40mg per week. They also either have me stop all K products for a week or add ( they believe in dieting the dose until I get "regular" which never seems to happen) I do take some meds known to effect INR , Amiodarone, Omeprazole and Iron but these are not new and my clinic has always been aware of them. Thanks for your input

 

[Ross]

Wayne I think you need to talk to Al. I think it's a combo of the Amiodarone and poor management by the clinic, not so much what your doing. They need to leave you alone, eat what you want and as much as you want for a week. A normal diet, I don't mean pig on greens, but a sensible amount is fine, then test and see. I'm fairly sure they are the cause of your seesawing.

( they believe in dieting the dose until I get "regular" which never seems to happen)

And it never will either!