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Vince

Is there anyone in this forum who is a candidate for or recipient of AVR, who exercises to an extreme extent, and has found themself experiencing chest discomfort before they were near the critical stage of disease? I have dedicated myself to fitness since I was 13 years old. I am now 29 and have been diagnosed with a bicuspid aortic valve that is stenotic , regurgitant, and calcified. They think I will need surgery in 5-10 years. Three years after diagnosis I am now actually starting to beleive them. I can tell that my body has ceased to be able to adapt to the most carefully dosed rigorous exercise routine. For example, I found myself having chest discomfort the other day after swimming just 15 laps, a bout of exercise I was more than prepared for. This really made an impression, I mean I have learned not to do heavy weightlifting ( this was difficult lesson for I was a national-level drug-free olympic weightlifter from age 18-23), but mild cardiovascular exercise is not something which has ever bothered me.
I am wondering if what I am used to in terms of exercise intensity is not what the doctors are really used to dealing with. Are their any lifelong fitness enthusiasts out there? Competitve athletes? I would be interested to know if your experience as an AVR candidate/recipient has differed from the normal picture as presented by your doctor and in the bell-curve-based general information.
 
Welcome to the forums Vince

There are many people active in fitness here. I don't know that we have any quite as involved as yourself, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help answer your questions.

When was the last time you saw your Cardiologist and were any tests performed to check on the progression of your symptoms? If your having chest pains now, it may be a good idea to get checked out once again.

You've come to the best place for information on heart valves, surgery, and coumadin, by people that have all gone through the same thoughts and anxieties that you may be having.

Someone will be around soon. Weekends are general slow here, but hang in there. :)
 
Welcome Vince

Welcome Vince

Sounds very familiar Vince. I'm an avid athlete, not world class at anything, but I play competitive basketball, softball, football and run and lift weights. I'm 30 now but just like you at 29 began the valve replacement process. I've known all my life about my bad valve, up until I moved out of the house at 18 I had it checked yearly, they always told me the same thing. Mild leakage of the aortic valve and my heart is enlarged about 5% to try to compensate. I let it slide and didn't see a cardio until after I dislocated and tore up my knee playing ball last year. I had a PE (blood clot in my lungs) the night of my knee reconstruction. The tests for the PE also showed that I had an aortic aneurysm of 5.1cm. Further tests showed my aortic insufficiency had gone from mild to severe.
My cardio told me I would definitely need the valve replaced, but it would probably be about 5 years, he said the aneurysm was a concern but was not to a point to be operable yet (6.0cm was the figure he gave me.)
The doctors I have seen went by test numbers and daily activities to decide on surgery time frame. They thought if I was still able to climb stairs and run that I was fine. But I had seen my athletic capacity cut in half or worse and that was not acceptable to me.
Over the next few months I had many episodes of chest pain, most of which were followed by ct scans to be sure I wasn't having more PE's, they all turned up negative and the aneurysm consistently measured at 5 cm. After my knee was rehabbed I started playing basketball, softball and running again. I found it much more difficult and had minor chest pain on exertion. When I went back to my cardio and told him all this he reviewed the tests and said 3-5 years and that most of it was in my head. He said because I knew I had the aneurysm and the bad valve that I was being hypersensitive to any chest pain or shortness of breath.
I gave it a few more weeks, trying to do all the normal things I always did. Then I carried my 55lb 7 year old up a small hill (something I could have done 50 times a few years ago) and almost blacked out, I had to sit down for 10 minutes before my head cleared and I could get up.
The next day I called my primary care and told him I need a new cardio. The new cardio said within a year and wanted me to see one of the local surgeons to discuss valve type. The surgeon review the data and said based on symptoms I should have it done within 6 mos. So I went home and researched.
I decided I either wanted a Ross procedure or a Cryolife Synergraft valve, I was not going to accept being on coumadin and worrying about strokes all my life and was also looking for something that would last. I was in good shape and still had a healthy heart so I knew I could handle a longer surgery.
I called Dr. Kenton Zehr at Mayo from another VR.com person's recommendation. He was very helpful and prompt with return calls and emails. I was able to get answers from him and his staff much easier than my own local cardio and surgeon.
Anyway, we got the surgery scheduled, I had a AVR and root on 5/23/02 and at 6 weeks after surgery I was back doing everything that I was before, except heavy lifting. The only difference is now I don't have the chest pain or shortness of breath.
I've found there is no substitute for doing your own research and paying close attention to your symptoms. Every doctor will interpret your test results differently, and you are the one that needs to decide when enough is enough and get it done. I was back to work 2 weeks after surgery, driving at 3 weeks and playing softball at 5. I was certainly lucky to have a good surgery with no complications, but I was also prepared and healthy going in.
my email is [email protected] if you want to chat about anything.

Good luck,

Brooks McIntyre
Synergraft AVR, Dr. Zehr - Mayo 5/23/02
 
Hi Vince-

Welcome to the site. It's a great place and as you can see, you'll get lots of replies.

My husband has had 3 valve surgeries, and I can tell you that symptoms play a very important role in the decisions for your cardiac care. You should discuss at length the diminishing in your cardio abilities, with your cardiologist.

What have you had in terms of cardiac testing? Maybe it's time to update and add to the tests.

I wouldn't let it go too long. Even though we don't want to face what's happening, it's always better to get it checked out sooner rather than later, and to be followed closely. Some things can wait, some things can't.

Wishing you all the best.
 
Hello Vince,

Welcome to this wonderful site. You'll receive all the information and support you desire. Everyone is extremely friendly and helpful. Remember you'll be among friends.
Before my surgery (actually I had two AVR's within eleven days) I had been an avid weight trainer and interested in health and fitness since the early 80's.
Without me knowing what the problem was (I blamed it on menopause) I noticed that my tolerance for weight training and cardiovascular exercises was diminishing and I had a difficult time lifting the same weights as I had done previously. The leg workout was especially gruesome anymore and I was not looking forward to it like I had. This did not happen overnight but gradually.
I never had chest pains but I was always hot and sweaty and felt so fatigued. At times I felt so fatigued that I'd have to stop my car on the way home and take a rest, because I was afraid I would pass out behind the wheel.
When I finally went to see a cardiologist in July 2000 I was near heart failure, (sudden death) and surgery was needed a.s.a.p.
I am now almost 2 years post-op and back to everything I want to do, but don't do any heavy lifting and difficult leg workouts anymore. When I even try to do lunges my chest doesn't feel good at all. Tried again last week and it scares me!
I had hoped for more energy after the surgery, and have the necessary stamina to want to go back to the gym and work out as before like nothing has happened. So far I have not gone back.
I work out at home these days, and am not in the same shape as I used to be. I don't like that but then again my priorities have changed. I am thankful to be alive, because without this life saving surgery I wouldn't be here today.
My surgeon chose the mechanical valve for me because of my age, and I am okay with it. The thought of multiple surgeries did not appeal to me. I am on Coumadin but that hasn't been a problem so far. Just takes a while for some people to get it stable and I was one of those people. It also depends a lot on your doctor and if he understands how to regulate Coumadin. It can get tricky!
I do the home testing myself with the Protime machine.
Pretty kewl!

Wishing you the best!

Christina
AVR's 8/7/00 & 8/18/00
Aortic Stenosis
TMC, Tucson. AZ.
Dr. Gulshan Sethi
 
Thanks so much for weighing-in on my post. This whole process is pretty frustrating. I get tested every six months and my doctor says the numbers have not changed since spring '00 (i.e. moderate insufficiency on the mild-moderate-severe scale), but I know my exercise capacity has reduced and I am not cardiovascularly stable. So I go through phases where I listen to what the doctors say about waiting, and phases where I really want to take my chances with the surgery.
I also went through a phase where I saw an alternative health practioner for a while. I noticed some moderate gains in my tolerance to activity working with her on mind-body practices and taking her herbal supplements. But I am in the middle of grinding through an intense 3 year academic program to become a physical therapist and find that I have to burn the candle at both ends too much to really devote myself to (with all due respect) a feel-good, time-intensive, experimental, alternative cure (I hate to say that because I really love the lady that I was working with, she great, but the former is a sincere part of what I feel). I have found that I just don't have time to "access my subconscious" and get myself into a "healing mental space" while taking 20 credit hours a semester.
Now, if there was something more cut-and-dry out there, god knows, I would kill myself trying to do it. Which is part of the frustration. The doctors give you no therapy, or proactive way of attacking your problem. That is why I relate so closely to the fellow from MIchigan's statement about deciding when enough is enough for oneself. The doctors tell me I am better off with what I have now, but what I have now is a congenitally deformed valve. An approximately nickel-sized piece of collagen is separating me from the freedom to increase my energy and vitality through hard work in the gym. And the fact is, that having such energy changes the complexion of your whole life. Now I notice I have to plan around my physical deficit. Specifically I have to avoid extreme pressure situations and give myself more time to study so that I don't put my body in a position it cannot handle. As a result I end up being less socially engaged. Which I don't mind that much except that I end-up having to forego a lot of the networking opportunities in school, so that I do not put myself in a physical bind. As time goes on I see that you end up becoming prohibitively conservative with your physical resources.
One doctor told me the hardest part will be going through the year or two before surgery when the most strenuous exerecise you can do is brisk walking. I could be totally irrational but logging a year or two more of surgery-free existence at that level of function is not worth it to me, and would not appear to significantly limit the overall number of required surgeries through the course of my lifetime. But the reality is that you can't force a doctor to cut on you, and getting cut-on seems to produce a variety of outcomes beyond the two I originally thought occured, i.e. death in surgery or life like it once was. Nevertheless, I find it hard to beleive that having an appropriately shaped three cusped valve in my chest that opens and closes completely would not furnish a superior life experience to the one currently provided by my ailing bicuspid valve. And given my experience with hard physical work and threshold for pain, I feel like I would have a good chance to get through the surgery and put it behind me until the next time.
I don't know...
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback, and please don't hesitate to tell me I am a fool-hardy son-of-a-bitch if I appear to be one.

--over and out
 
HI Vince-

No surgeon that I know of would do heart valve surgery on anyone unless the test numbers and your symptome absolutely warrant it. It's good that you're being tested frequently, and when your numbers show that surgery is needed, your cardiologist will let you know. There is a risk to benefit type of analysis that they use to determine things.

By the way, the approximate risk for first valve surgeries in a good facility is about 2 percent or less. And if you're in good condition, and are young your personal risk would probably be less than that.

Believe it or not, this surgery is pretty much perfected as much as any surgery can be.

My husband has had 3 of them, plus 2 lung surgeries, some very nasty other things. He went in for gallbladder surgery and very nearly died.

Cardiothoracic surgeons are among the very best and the most careful. They don't fool around. Theirs is a serious profession and they do it extremely well.
 
Vince,

You mentioned that you have been 'tested' regularly but didn't say what kind of tests you've had. I would assume you have had the standard (external) Echogram. Have you had the more definitive TransEsophagael Echogram (TEE)? Have you had a heart catheterization to measure your pressure differentials? These tests can give your cardiologist a better picture of your exact status.

Deciding when to have surgery can be a tricky situation. As others have said, the surgeons are hesitant to operate too soon, i.e. before your symptoms warrant it. On the other hand, you DO need to be careful not to overexert yourself because there is a real risk of sudden death with valve disease. That brings us back to further testing to know EXACTLY where you stand.

FWIW, I was able to postpone my surgery for over a year after a TEE clarified my condition and my cardiologist was able to alleviate my symptoms with proper medication. IMHO, this is NOT a place for alternative medicine. When a valve shuts off, it's all over.

'AL'
 
Vince....
I rarely post here but your situation is so close to mine it is scary.
I am just beginning to realize that the doctors will probably choose to put this surgery off as long as possible even though your quality of life is affected drastically.
I was an avid competitive tennis player. I have played for 25 years and was near the top club level. All of a sudden I noticed I had difficulty breathing on the court. Like many others I put if off as age,(53), menopause, heat whatever. but then the cardio guy says you are at risk for sudden death with exertion! (from bicuspid, congenital aortic valve, mod-severe stenosis etc) Of course I flipped out for a few weeks, but now I am calmer and into finding out what happens next.
I am headed to Boston, Brigham Womens for a second opinion this week. I am sure now that the speech may be the same. Let's wait awhile. My question is if it is dangerouse to exercise and you are an active person, does that mean you just sit and wait???!!! Is it more dangerous to wait than to operate?
Well, life goes on around us. My team will go to Nationals without me!, but hey, I am alive and sitting?!
So, I think we are in the same boat. I will let you know what the "world renowned" cardio guy says.
I really feel for all of you that are much younger than I when this happened! I thought I was young for it! I guess in reality I am lucky to have a valve that lasted this long!
Take care! You are far from alone!
Karen
 
Goals

Goals

I'm with my 3rd cardiologist, the first 2 just did not have the same goals and objectives as me. There was no way I could be happy with diminished heart function. If I'm stuck on the sofa all the time or requiring daily naps just to fuction I get very depressed, this doesn't help anyone. I have 4 boys and absolutely hated having to tell them no to playing ball or whatever they wanted to do. My first cardio thought that since I looked fine and I was able to do basic daily tasks (work, climb steps, etc.) and my tests were not to HIS criteria that surgery should be put off a few years. My lifestyle was up to his standards but certainly not mine!
I think you need to inform yourself and get multiple opinions so you can make up your own mind, both on valve selection and surgery timing.

Good luck Vince,

Brooks
 
Vince,

Short and sweet I had a bicuspid and now I have a SJ mechanical and aortic graft installed May 2000. My only major restriction is that I have to lay off the heavy weights. There are many people on this board with post surgery problems. I really do not have any. I just finished adding onto my house (second story) and did most of the work myself so I really pressed it. I exceeded my weight limits on an hourly basis, worked 12 hour days, got over heated and about every other abuse known to construction folk and now that the 5 month project is finished, I have never felt better. I still go to the gym 3 days a week.

My doc told me before my surgery that he has some mechanical valve patients who run marathons. That was all I needed to hear. My theory is it only gets you down if you let it.
 
Hi Vince,
Just to share my experience:
I also had a biscuspid aortic valve that was first discovered when I was about 5 years old (I'm 49 now). I had my first catherization when I was 16, but the doctors didn't put any restrictions on me. I played football, wrestled, ran track, lifted weights, swam competitively, and played competitive tennis all the time I was growing up.
I continued to run, lift weights and play tennis as I got older. My cardiologists told me that as I aged my valve would probably start to deteriorate and eventually need to be replaced, but there was no sense in considering surgery until I started having noticable symptoms. (They also told me that the longer I waited the more the surgical technology would advance...)
I really didn't notice any symptoms until shortly after my 47th birthday when I started getting short of breath after relatively minor exertion, and then started having trouble sleeping at night.
At first I attributed my symptoms to work-related travel and stress.
When I finally realized that something more was up than just normal fatigue, I went to my cardiologist, who said it was time to think about AVR. He told me that if you go longer than six months beyond the onset of symptoms that you risk damage to the heart.
His recommendation was that I have the surgery within 3 months. Thinking back, I realized that I had actually started feeling tired about eight to nine months earlier, so I elected to have the surgery right away (two days later actually...).
During the surgery they found that my valve was much more calcified than they had thought and that I had developed a bit of left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) as a result of the heart muscle compensating for the bad valve. Therefore it was a good call to get the surgery done right away.
Everything went as advertised: I was out of the hospital in four days, back at work in four weeks, and back to the gym in about 10 weeks.
Nevertherless, it still took me close to a year to completely get over not only the physical but emotional (depression) effects of the surgery.
But now 18 months later, I feel better than I have for years.
I'm going to the gym 5-6 days per week (50-50 between moderate weights and aerobic) and have started running again.
My cardiologist has cleared me to start triathlon training which I've always wanted to try (no speed records, I just want to finish one).
My last two echocardiograms show that my LVH is starting to correct itself and I'm not scheduled for any further testing for two more years.
I look forward to living an active life for a long time to come.
Mark
 
Hi Vince,

I had surgery in March. I was diagnosed 10 years ago and the cardiologist suggested I had moderate stenosis at the time and would need surgery "sometime". He suggested yearly checkups and well, I blew it off for, well, um, for 10 years.

In the meantime, I did what many 35-45 year olds to, spend time at work and on the couch, and lost any level of fitness that I had.

Last January, I decided to do something about it. I started a program called "body for life" that incorporated aerobic exercise, with strict nutritional guidelines and well, um, heavyweight lifting. I ended up bench pressing 355 4 months prior to surgery. My valve opening was .4 at surgery time.

Oops, hit the enter key:

Anyhow, I made some tremendous progress, all while my little aortic opening was working overtime. I entered the Body for Life contest, and while I didn't actually make my goal of finishing in the top 3 for my age group, I finished in the top 2000 in the world. 700,000 folks entered last year, and I beleive about 50,000 finished and sent in their before and after pics. (Here's a link to my profile at another group that I go to once in a while if anyones interested in the transformation:
Lean and Strong profile )

I think you just have to listen to your body. I noticed that when I was pushing myself aerobically, during the first several minutes, I felt "uncomfortable". After a while, I could get my heart rate up without discomfort. Lifting weights never bothered me, I always lift with good form and never hold my breath.

It was my experience that I could workout hard prior to having surgery. I did find that aerobically I was able to do a bit less the last couple of months. I never felt my valve hindered my ability to lift weights. I hope that it won't in the future. Now, I've waited 4 months that was suggested before I go back to the gym. I plan to hit it as hard as ever.

Chris.
 
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HI Vince,

I'm no weightlifter here, but I just want to say that from what I learned, the cardios take into account not just your symptoms, but also the size of your left ventricle plus your output capacity (ejection fraction). The enlarged LV seems to indicate that things are not good, this being a characteristic of congestive heart failure. The EF is an indicator of whether your heart is able to compensate appropriately and get the proper amount of blood to your body. Many people here seem to have had no symptoms yet trully needed the surgery then. Others have symptoms but could postpone surgery. It seems to be a bit of an art, so many factors come into play here.

I'd also like to point out that not all cardios are valve guys. I've been through a few of them, including one that really was clueless regarding the whole scene, and one who realized what was going on and told me flat out he wasn't an expert in this and sent me on up the line. My current cardio saw a need to get further consultation as well. You may need to blaze your own trail.

Regarding the "alternative" stuff - this heart stuff is pretty much a MECHANICAL problem. I agree with Al when he says, when the valve shuts off, it's all over. Please be careful with those weights. Every cardio I went to always said "no more than ten pounds!" But I couldn't lift more than fifty if I tried, so who am I to comment?!! Just please don't do anything stupid - that's all I'm saying.

best wishes,
Jennie
 
Thanks a lot for your candid comments and informed advice.
Sincerely,
Vince
 
Good for you MarkU

Good for you MarkU

Do you know of any heart surgery survivor running groups forming that I could get in touch with? Best of luck in your Triathlon training. I'm thinking toward the 2005 Chicago Marathon. Want to join me (us)? I'm meeting another clicker this year at the Chicago. This will be his 2nd running.

To Vince and everyone who has responded to this thread...best of luck in your training. I'm glad you brought this up.

Cheers!
 
Hi Perry,

You may ask that to the American Heart Association, and also AARP.

I seem to recall seeing some sponsered events by both.

Hope ya doing well,

Rob
 
Mainframe:
My experience with working out was similar to yours prior to my surgery. I never seemed to have a problem with the weightlifting. Like you, when I did my aerobic workouts I would have a tough time at first until I had my heart rate up and "broke a sweat". Once I got going I seemed to feel okay. Looking back, pushing myself this way was definitely a contributing factor to the the left ventricular hypertrophy (LVH) that I developed prior to surgery. My cardiologist cautioned me about this citing the example of boxer Evander Hollyfield who overworked himself into congestive heart failure. Since my surgery he still lets me lift, but nothing very heavy (like squats). I've had two echos since my surgery and the LVH is reversing itself so it looks like I didn't do any permanent damage. Just be very careful if you're going to lift heavy...

PerryA:
Chicago in 05, huh? To date I've never run more than 5 miles, so I've some work to do. I've been invited to join a local group that is comprised of beginning runners, cancer survivors, heart patients and others in similar circumstances who workout as a group three times a week and are pointing towards doing the Disney marathon in Orlando next year. The group's focus is on finishing, not on pace (my kind of group!). At this point I don't know much about it other than that, but I'll let you know.


Mark
 
Exercise

Exercise

Vince-I had aneurysm repair only (trauma induced)when they went in they found my valves and arteries were fine-but prior to the surgery-I didn't know what to expect-so I did a lot of research-marathoners who have had valve replacement-artificial and tissue are PLENTIFULL--:) Any questions feel free to E-mail me-I am an avid runner and weightlifter
 

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