Two diet related questions

[Kristian]

The material available online for Coumadin is extremely contradictory. For example, soy(tofu) and ice cream are sometimes listed in the "don't ever have" category.

Does anyone know if there is truth to this? Can I enjoy an occasional milkshake or tofu dish from my favorite Thai restaurant?

 

[Karlynn]

Kristian - have you read the sticky threads at the top of this anticoagulation forum. They will give you the real truth on diet and Coumadin. Eat what you want. As long as you are consistent, your INR should stay in range with the correct dose. Some medications (like antibiotics) will temporarily mess with the INR, but only short-term dose adjustments are needed.

Soy - is high in vitamin K. If you eat soy products regularly - you should be fine because your dose will be adjusted to your diet. If you go crazy and have tofu or a large spinach salad every day for a week or 2, you INR will drop. But the reality is - what you put in your mount has little to do with your INR.

I've been on Coumadin for almost 18 years and give little to no thought about what I eat in relations to my INR.

Now the ice cream issue is confusing - are they talking about soy ice cream?

YES - enjoy an occasional tofu dish from your fav restaurant. But you will probably be like most of us - we like our INR to be at the higher side of the range to compensate for spontaneous binge occasions!

 

[dick0236]

Kristian, I have heard that Soy is something that should be watched, but no need to eliminate it from my diet. I eat a dish of ice cream almost every evening. My experience with coumadin/warfarin over the years is that I eat whatever I enjoy. The only thing I kinda watch is my vit K intake...by that I mean I try to be, more or less, consistant in Vit K consumption. Sometimes I wonder on what planet some of these Koomadin Kooks come from.

The only important thing to do while on warfarin is to "take the med as prescribed and test regularly".......and enjoy a normal life.

 

[Jkm7]

Consistency is important when keeping coumadin regulated.

If you have soy milk with your cereal every morning, that is fine. But it isn't fine to never have soy milk and suddenly decide to drink a quart of it to wash down your spinach salad followed by two huge stalks of brocolli. If you like brocolli, eat it (or other green leafy veggie) with consistency.
There are no foods you cannot eat but there are foods you need to be consistent with.
If you always eat lots of greens, that is fine. But you cannot suddenly stop eating all greens and have a totally vitamin k free diet. You will not be able to stay in range that way.

Be relatively consistent and enjoy whatever foods you like.

 

[Kristian]

Thanks everyone. I seem to be able to do a good job keeping out K, which I know is not good. I hate having to "think" about eating greens - I was a vegetarian before and have given it up, both so I can better regulate K and so that my friends, who did a lot of cooking for me the last month, had less worries about menu planning.

Now that I'm cooking on my own, I find myself wanting to go to a more vegetarian diet, and I've also tried to find foods that are medium in K without too little or too much, along the moderation lines that everyone has mentioned.

I'm taking a tiny amount of Coumadin right now - 2 2 3 (in a three day cycle) so I know I can afford to eat K more often.

thanks again

 

[catwoman]

Sometimes I wonder on what planet some of these Koomadin Kooks come from.

Can we trademark Koomadin Kooks????????

 

[dick0236]

Can we trademark Koomadin Kooks????????

Marsha, you have my blessin'......but if you find a way to make a million bucks with it, I want a CUT.

 

[Lisa in Katy]

When I first had surgery, I worried about my diet. My INR bounced around, but it was probably related more to my activity level, pericarditis, and drugs than my diet. Now I NEVER worry about my diet and I am stable. I don't eat tofu, but I do eat edamame. I eat lots of vegetables and vegetable oil products - mayonnaise, fake butter, salad dressings, etc. The only thing my doctor has told me to avoid is green tea because it apparently has an inconsistent effect on the INR depending on the source. I don't particularly like tea so I haven't tested it.

The rule is that your INR will probably bounce for a while, but don't binge on anything and you shouldn't have to worry about your diet.

 

[catwoman]

There is no "DON'T EVER HAVE" category for foods, etc.

However, you can find lists of foods that are known to be high in vitamin K -- seaweed and spinach, for example. But that doesn't mean you have to stay away from them.

You can eat them once or twice in a short period without having a problem. However, if you move to Japan, for example, and start eating a lot of nori in your food, lots of tofu and keep those items in your daily diet, you may notice a decrease in your INR. If so, you merely increase your warfarin dosage.

But ice cream???? I hope not! At least, not my Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla or Blue Bell Butter Pecan.

Actually, I looked at www.nutritiondata.com and couldn't readily find ice creams with vitamin K in the nutritional data............ Of course, I didn't look at any that are soy-based, only milk-based.

 

[Karlynn]

Thanks everyone. I seem to be able to do a good job keeping out K, which I know is not good. I hate having to "think" about eating greens - I was a vegetarian before and have given it up, both so I can better regulate K and so that my friends, who did a lot of cooking for me the last month, had less worries about menu planning.

Now that I'm cooking on my own, I find myself wanting to go to a more vegetarian diet, and I've also tried to find foods that are medium in K without too little or too much, along the moderation lines that everyone has mentioned.

I'm taking a tiny amount of Coumadin right now - 2 2 3 (in a three day cycle) so I know I can afford to eat K more often.

thanks again

You don't need to keep out vit. K. If you love brocolli, brussel sprouts (one of my favs), dark green salads, etc. Eat 'em and eat them regularly. If you try to remove all vit. K from your diet your INR will be all over the place and you will be super frustrated. There is some research that shows that some vit. K in the diet helps keep a steadier INR.

The bottom line is: Eat what you normally eat and let the dosage be adjusted to your diet.

Seriously - the only time I think about what I eat in relationship to my Coumadin usage is when I'm answering questions here!

 

[ShezaGirlie]

Can we trademark Koomadin Kooks????????

Oh yes, I thought that was also rather clever of Dick..!

And Marsha, make mine Blue Bell Vanilla Bean or Moolenium Crunch..YUMMO.!

 

[geebee]

The only time that soy has affected my INR was when I was taking supplements for hot flashes. I had to adjust my dosage to compensate but I never stopped taking it until I was past hot flashes.

I eat soy products but not extremely regularly. I do not see any negative affect on my INR when I do. However, I usually eat only a few ounces.

 

[catwoman]

And Marsha, make mine Blue Bell Vanilla Bean or Moolenium Crunch..YUMMO.!

Will have to try the Moolenium Crunch. Sudden thought: If I have a St. Jude mechanical valve, can I enjoy anything that starts with "Moo"? One of these days, I'll make a pilgrimate to Brenham for a tasty tour ....

 

[Lisa in Katy]

Will have to try the Moolenium Crunch. Sudden thought: If I have a St. Jude mechanical valve, can I enjoy anything that starts with "Moo"? One of these days, I'll make a pilgrimate to Brenham for a tasty tour ....

I've been there with groups of 1st graders for school field trips as well as with my own kids. It's a great tour and culminates with ice cream!

I was upset with Blue Bell for awhile because they were getting away from their chocolate based flavors. They had the standard chocolates, Rocky Road, and Brownie Nut, but not some of the fancier varieties. However, they have brought several out lately, so I must not have been the only one upset! This includes my favorite that disappeared for a few years - Chocolate Moolenium Crunch.

 

[Cooker]

Ice cream, the glue that binds my world and I eat it on a regular basis ... and I’m with Karlynn, eat whatever you want whenever you want ... I have since day one and my INR has always been stable ... I have needed slight dose adjustments over the past few years but no big deal ... life is for living and that includes the food we love ... peace

 

[olefin]

But ice cream???? I hope not! At least, not my Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla or Blue Bell Butter Pecan.

I hear you Marsha.
When we first moved to AR there was no Blue Bell!! Finally here came the Blue Bell truck and we were back in hog heaven. Have several Blue Bell favorites, Banana Split, Butter Pecan, Home Made Vanilla and Strawberries and even Lisa's Moolenium Crunch! Never tried any Blue Bell that I didn't like.

I'd never heard that about ice cream and VK.

I'm with Karlynn.
Been on warfarin for 18 years and eat what I want... well, I do 'try' to keep my weight in check but don't worry too much about INR swings.

 

[Ross]

Now that I'm cooking on my own, I find myself wanting to go to a more vegetarian diet, and I've also tried to find foods that are medium in K without too little or too much, along the moderation lines that everyone has mentioned.

Kristian this is the entire reason why you SHOULD eat your greens and other items that contain a fair amount of vit K. Dose the diet you eat, do not diet the dose of the drug. Everything can be adjusted for. Eat like you normally did before, get your dose adjusted to that diet and you should be fine.

Too many excuse me, morons, are telling people to stay away from this and that and the other thing and it's simply not true. Everyone will go back to what they want eventually and then they become enlightened.

Diet plays a very small role in INR management. You'd have to really pig out on something with a ton of Vit K to really disturb your INR. Example, if you listen to the so called Coumadin cook book people, you could only have 5 baby brussel sprouts. I eat at least 15. It hasn't done a thing to my INR, but I have mine adjusted for a fair amount of Vit K also.

 

[Kristian]

I should be clear - I'm not trying to avoid K as much as moderate it, but in doing so I seem to have cut quite a bit out. The first salad that I had dropped my INR from a steady 3 to 1.7 the next day. Then, after a week of taking 3mg, it was up to 6 (um...). I'm new to it and I'm also still on amiodarone, which is said to interfere as well.

I don't drink green tea as well, although the hospital wouldn't let me have herbal tea when I was there. I'm not terribly worried overall, especially after reading these responses. Since I home monitor, if I get worried I can just check a day or two later

 

[Karlynn]

Kristian -I'm pretty certain there isn't any salad that would drop your INR by almost 1/2 in a day, even if it was a big spinach salad. Your Coumadin dose will need to go up as you recover and your metabolism revs back up to normal.

And yes - Amiodarone will mess your INR up.

I have green tea when I want and often drink herbal tea (in order to stay away from caffeine.)

 

[Lisa in Katy]

I think what my doctor meant by green tea depends on the source is that Lipton's green tea is probably not the same as what you would get in a real Chinese restaurant and if you drink green tea every day, but sometimes bottled, sometimes brewed, sometimes instant, it could cause fluctuations. As I said, since I don't like tea, I haven't tested it. If you like green tea, I would say find the kind you like and drink it regularly.