surgeon robbed me of my MV choice

[sharky7]

I have an appointment with SURGEON june/30/2015 and am going to ask him why he made the choice that was, i think, suppose to be mine. has this happened to anyone else. and yes, i know for a fact that this happened. and i am not a happy camper about it, i will say though, i have prayed to god that he made the correct choice. [i wanted an ON X, and was given a saint jude.] the MV i have was manufactured on MAY/09/2011, the implant date was JUNE/05/2015. i am in the process of finding out what the shelve life is, and a few more details.
i am getting mad right now, just thinking about it, i cant be the only one this has happen to, i cannot be!

 

[epstns]

Try to calm down, sharky7, until you know more of the situation. Sometimes surgeons will go into the OR with one valve in mind, but then will see the actual shape and dimensions, etc., of the patient's heart and conclude on the spot that another valve is going to be a better fit, a better match, or will be best for the patient for some other reason. Best to hold your anxiety in check (yeah, I know that's not easy) until you know why the surgeon did what he did. It may actually be that way for a very good reason, but you won't know until you have that discussion.

 

[sharky7]

epstns, i prayed that what you say is true, as it is, i will have to live with this for the rest of my life. part of what i didnt include above, HE told my wife post surgery that they didnt have the ON-X. now to me, that alone is very bad, what exactly is that suppose to mean, i ask you. and, i didnt see HIM on the day of surgery, pre or post. and weeks before the SURGERY i sent him an email directly to HIM to his personal email address, i never got any reply, not even anything informing me that he got it. Bro, it just dont add up.
I have a gut feeling about this, and i think i deserve and really need some answers to be even be able to start putting this behind me.
HHO
[one fact that i do know is true, HE knew presurgery of my desire to have an ON-X. and at least have the chance to talk to HIM about it before going further and listening to HIM about why i should go with a saint jude or not, and then and only then the date for the surgery would be set, etc. is this too much to have asked for? i think not.]

 

[pellicle]

[one fact that i do know is true, HE knew presurgery of my desire to have an ON-X. and at least have the chance to talk to HIM about it before going further and listening to HIM about why i should go with a saint jude or not, and then and only then the date for the surgery would be set, etc. is this too much to have asked for? i think not.]

one thing to consider is that during surgery is the only time that they accurately measure the size needed. Earlier imaging results are estimates. Valve sizing is critical to success. So every hospital can't have every makers valves in every size available at all times.

I asked my surgeon for an On-X and he replied that he would take that into consideration. Before my surgery I'd done a little reading and learned about the On-X ... I have since learned that the ATS has some advantages that the On-X does not and further has a longer history of service from which to make accurate judgements of its suitablity. Further back then the On-X did not have approval in Australia yet for the prestitched aortic riser ... as I was getting an aortic repair due to aneurysm that would save time in surgery.

Saving time in surgery is what its all about. Minimise time on the pump.

I know its tempting to act like a consumer and say I wanted X and got Y (which the modern world pre-conditions us to demand) but these aren't washing machines and sometimes the surgeons just like working with what they know ... do you actually think you know the products better than them and wouldn't you just let a craftsman use his prefered tools (rather than botch it).

PS: after the surgery (and I was back home) a courier delivered a package ... it was a Roche Coaguchek XS. It turned out (he didn't know either) that ATS was giving them to valve recipients. I mentioned that it arrived to him and his words were "Well, you wouldn't get that from On-X"

I actually think its a nice touch and its one of the many reasons I'm grateful that I don't live in the USA (where folks are tied down like Gulliver by their health system which seems to focus more on making money than fixing people)

 

[sharky7]

one thing to consider is that during surgery is the only time that they accurately measure the size needed. Earlier imaging results are estimates. Valve sizing is critical to success. So every hospital can't have every makers valves in every size available at all times.

I asked my surgeon for an On-X and he replied that he would take that into consideration. Before my surgery I'd done a little reading and learned about the On-X ... I have since learned that the ATS has some advantages that the On-X does not and further has a longer history of service from which to make accurate judgements of its suitablity. Further back then the On-X did not have approval in Australia yet for the prestitched aortic riser ... as I was getting an aortic repair due to aneurysm that would save time in surgery.

Saving time in surgery is what its all about. Minimise time on the pump.

I know its tempting to act like a consumer and say I wanted X and got Y (which the modern world pre-conditions us to demand) but these aren't washing machines and sometimes the surgeons just like working with what they know ... do you actually think you know the products better than them and wouldn't you just let a craftsman use his prefered tools (rather than botch it).

PS: after the surgery (and I was back home) a courier delivered a package ... it was a Roche Coaguchek XS. It turned out (he didn't know either) that ATS was giving them to valve recipients. I mentioned that it arrived to him and his words were "Well, you wouldn't get that from On-X"

I actually think its a nice touch and its one of the many reasons I'm grateful that I don't live in the USA (where folks are tied down like Gulliver by their health system which seems to focus more on making money than fixing people)

[Roche Coaguchek XS? you didnt mention if you intended to use it, if your not would you consider sending it to me if i pay for postage? just asking and i hope that you dont mind.]

 

[pellicle]

Roche Coaguchek XS? you didnt mention if you intended to use it, if your not would you consider sending it to me if i pay for postage? just asking and i hope that you dont mind.

it has been extensively used for the last few years (sometimes doing testing every 2nd day for a month) It has travelled with me across europe and australia and it even features in my training video on my blog post. I would estimate that its performed well over 400 tests. So its very well used.

I was just asking myself the other day what I'll do if it dies or gets damaged ... I've almost bonded with it.

So, to answer the question, nope, not for sale

and no not bothered by you asking

 

[cldlhd]

it has been extensively used for the last few years (sometimes doing testing every 2nd day for a month) It has travelled with me across europe and australia and it even features in my training video on my blog post. I would estimate that its performed well over 400 tests. So its very well used.

I was just asking myself the other day what I'll do if it dies or gets damaged ... I've almost bonded with it.

So, to answer the question, nope, not for sale

and no not bothered by you asking

Maybe they give you the complimentary coaguchek because it's also in their best interest. Home monitoring means less complications which in turn would give their valve better statistics, I'm skeptical of any big company "giving" anything away out of the kindness of their heart. Trust me I have a fair share of criticisms of the U.S. healthcare system but I had ,with my insurance,my choice of basically any hospital in the Philly metro area (which is a lot ), chose my surgeon and,if it was needed I could have chosen the replacement valve or gone with the surgeons recommendation. I see a lot of people out here from the UK complaining about a lack of choice in their healthcare decisions. That's not a criticism of those nations as I consider myself a mild anglophile.
If anything the for profit medical industry pushes for the patient to get more healthcare and testing, some unnecessary, because that's how they make their money. Check out how many MRI machines per person in various countries, once diagnosed by echo I had my CT scan within a week. You just have to be a discerning patient and be able to tell which drs are prescription lovers. Its the insurance companies that tend to want to fight expensive medical treatments ,for obvious reasons.

 

[sharky7]

it has been extensively used for the last few years (sometimes doing testing every 2nd day for a month) It has travelled with me across europe and australia and it even features in my training video on my blog post. I would estimate that its performed well over 400 tests. So its very well used.
I was just asking myself the other day what I'll do if it dies or gets damaged ... I've almost bonded with it.
So, to answer the question, nope, not for sale
and no not bothered by you asking

with all that is going on i would like you to know your one of the very few that i consider a, "breathe of fresh air". and I thank you much for that. the last part of what you said prior about beig more about money then about people really hit home with me, and hit me hard. This is a very big part of why i posted what i did with this question, and why "this u.s.citizen" is very angry with the USA and hate what it has become. the people of this "nation" are, like you say, i think. "te people of this nation are very much asleep at the wheel, as in, "brain washed", and i mean in a very bad way. i am very saddened that health care in the USA has become more about money then about people, it was never meant to be that way, and because it has, i really believe it has become a monster that now out of control, people in this great nation are over medicated, etc. and without access,i really believe this is just the tip of the iceberg! I thank god for sites like this and the internet, please everyone dont get me wrong. i really have faith and believe the internet will help correct and provide all of us with the information we need to get things back to the way they need to be.I pray that this is making some sort of sense, and those reading it know i do have a good heart, and that i mean to do what is right.
i am sorry if this offends anyone in anyway, thing is i have also been made aware of other parts of the SYSTEMS here in the USA that have been going down a very bad road, and perhaps this is why what has happened to me in having heart valve surgery bothers me so much, god bless us all.
HHO

 

[pellicle]

Hi there

Maybe they give you the complimentary coaguchek because it's also in their best interest

I would agree (follow the money, and as you know I'm quite the skeptic) but I can't see how its in the interests of ATS as INR monitoring is done by other private firms who are unrelated. They get no money from the government. My opinion was that relative to the price of a valve its like those free caps that you get as promotional offers. PLUS maybe they are related to Roche in Australia and they will make more money from selling the strips. So perhaps its about sales?

Trust me I have a fair share of criticisms of the U.S. healthcare system but I had ,with my insurance,my choice of basically any hospital in the Philly metro area (which is a lot ),

I am not intending to shift this into a debate about healthcare in the USA and its merits. My experience when I lived in Japan was that if Japanese were criticising something Japanese (like say public transport) and you joined in agreement you would see a rapid turn around in the discussion to criticising you. I have found that Americans are tarred with the same brush.

I will leave it as we (in Australia) didn't need health insurance, I've had 3 surgeries with the best surgeons in the nation working on me (and yes I've cited their research and pulbications here befoer) and that was *all* on the free public health. Come live here and see for yourself. You had better hurry though as we are rapidly following the US model (so its changing yearly).

Best Wishes

PS: while I was munching my cereal I missed the ending of your sentence:

Home monitoring means less complications which in turn would give their valve better statistics,

that part is perhaps true (the less complications is bang on IMO, but the stats bit is what I'm sus on) ... but what would dillute the significance of that is that in Australia few self monitor (perhaps they are trying to promote it?) and Australia is such a teeny weeeny market share that our stats would lend nothing to USA or global numbers. I kinda suspect a tie in between Roche and Medtronics in Australia and the "freebie" meter will elicit more sales of strips ... which btw at the local chemist shop are $240 for 12 strips (buttfhukkdats expensive) while I buy mine of medshop online at $146 (including shipping) for 24 strips.

I always suspect motivations or government subsidies.

 

[Heart Of The Sunrise]

deletion of duplicate post

 

[Heart Of The Sunrise]

sharky7- I agree with epstns- there may have been a medical reason for the switch...I too would have been angry if I woke up without my chosen valve.
All valves whether mechanical or tissue...save your life......but you wanted an ON-X...and got a St Jude. My guess is that there are more St. Jude 's beating out there than ON-X..

A friend of mine has had a St. Jude since the '80's. You will love the home testing......my cardio and I felt comfortable lowering my INR range down to (1.8 to 2.2). I pretty much test consistent @ 2.0.

 

[river-wear]

I had the same surgeon as Heart of the Sunrise and asked for On-X if it came to it. He said okay, but only if he didn't have to do some other stuff that would require him to switch to a different valve. I don't recall the details, but it was related to whether he had to reduce the size of my aortic root. Ultimately, I kept my valve, but the point is that we have to trust our surgeon to behave in our best interest when they're working.

I did have another surgeon say, "oh, I always use St. Jude valves" and "they're all basically the same, with different marketing." I give him credit for being up-front with my expectations in regard to valve brands.

 

[Jkm7]

Hi there



<snip>


I am not intending to shift this into a debate about healthcare in the USA and its merits. My experience when I lived in Japan was that if Japanese were criticising something Japanese (like say public transport) and you joined in agreement you would see a rapid turn around in the discussion to criticising you. I have found that Americans are tarred with the same brush.

I will leave it as we (in Australia) didn't need health insurance, I've had 3 surgeries with the best surgeons in the nation working on me (and yes I've cited their research and pulbications here befoer) and that was *all* on the free public health. Come live here and see for yourself. You had better hurry though as we are rapidly following the US model (so its changing yearly).

Best Wishes

PS: while I was munching my cereal I missed the ending of your sentence: <snip<

.

It is posts such as these and a number of others that drove so many former contributors and posters to this forum away.
We got tired of these sort of comments.

All best wishes .....
I'll disappear, Again. sigh...

 

[pellicle]

It is posts such as these and a number of others that drove so many former contributors and posters to this forum away.
We got tired of these sort of comments.

I'm sorry you are are offended by this. I'm also disturbed *greatly* by the prayer calls and religious stuff. I am sometimes unable to tune out to it, but as it is my genuine desire to help others I remain.

I hope you are able to see through what disturbs you personally and accept that there are wide variations in what people think and say. There is no benefit to us all just fitting a stereotype. Sometimes good solutions to problems come from outside "conventional thought".

To me as long as there is no personal attack or malice intended then in the consideration of free speech people should be able to say what they feel, and others able to be tolerant of the views which do not fit with theirs.

I wish you peace

PS: thankyou for letting me know that this annoys you, I will ensure I do not raise such points on any discussion with you.

 

[Jkm7]

It might be worth wondering where all the missing posters have left and why?
Perhaps too many got too offended too often?

 

[pellicle]

It might be worth wondering where all the missing posters have left and why?
Perhaps too many got too offended too often?

well I could only speculate ... perhaps it was the persistent calls for prayers?

I suggest you block me , its easy to do, just go to your control panel,

http://www.valvereplacement.org/forums/settings/account

and at the bottom of the page you'll find "ignore list" ... put pellicle into that and you will be free from seeing my posts here ever again (well except where someone I am having a helpful discussion with replies and quotes me ...)

I hope that will enable you to come here freely and not be bothered by seeing me post

Best Wishes

PS ... or it could be just the server slowness that Eps has been complaining about...

 

[Jkm7]

No, I won't bother with that. I left before because of things you posted directed at me and I'll be gone again. I made a pledge to help others the way I had been helped
here prior to and after my second OHS but you continue to make it unpleasant..
All best wishes to those facing surgery.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

No, I won't bother with that. I left before because of things you posted directed at me and I'll be gone again.

I recall that there was a time back soon after my wife had died that you thought I was being difficult to you, I did ask you to identify what I had said was wrong and IIRC you never did. That left me in the dark.

I genuinely do not intend to be hurtful anyone. If my beliefs are contrary to yours and my life experience different too, well that's just how it is. I mean no person malice and if you interpret things in a manner that I did not intend then its helpful to hear how what I said was offensive so that I can not say things to you in that manner.

My experience in life is quite diverse, so I often have no idea what may or may not be offensive to who.

 

[carolinemc]

Perhaps it was the reference about Japan. We have many people here from many different countries posting and it is easy to say something that can offend someone from another country. Like here in the USA, I got offended by a friend making a side remark about today's Native American Indians one time. She just came back from doing massionary work on a Cherokee reservation and called the Barbaric. I was quiet and remmbered that some white people, who call themselves Christian, have black hearts. So i did not say a word. But it was an insult to me of a drop of Indiana blood in my family. Certain words or references, innociently said, can offend anyone.

 

[Agian]

Perhaps it was the reference about Japan. We have many people here from many different countries posting and it is easy to say something that can offend someone from another country. Like here in the USA, I got offended by a friend making a side remark about today's Native American Indians one time. She just came back from doing massionary work on a Cherokee reservation and called the Barbaric. I was quiet and remmbered that some white people, who call themselves Christian, have black hearts. So i did not say a word. But it was an insult to me of a drop of Indiana blood in my family. Certain words or references, innociently said, can offend anyone.

Actually, I think it was the reference to America. What Pellicle said about people criticising their own country, but taking offence if a foreigner does it is human nature. We tell off our children, but are upset when strangers do it. There was nothing offensive about what Pellicle said.

We need to be mindful of others' intent. People express themselves differently. This is not a criticism, but the reference to 'white christians' might suggest a belief they have a monopoly on virtue, as if someone who in not such is a less charitable person. It's like saying that being a white christian (or whatever other colour-religion combination) innoculates someone from evil, which is definitely not the case. The religions we're familiar with were imposed on others by force, at some time in their history; almost always by evil men, who convinced others they possessed some divine mandate to murder.