hensylee
Well-known member
Gail - since you are on the front lines, let us know what they tell you. God bless
Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:
Hensylee,
I'll let everyone here know as soon as anything officially happens at the hospital regarding the vaccine. I am not sure how quickly things are to progress with the vaccine.
Take Care!
Gail
I'll let everyone here know as soon as anything officially happens at the hospital regarding the vaccine. I am not sure how quickly things are to progress with the vaccine.
Take Care!
Gail
H
hhardt
Lack of Responses
Lack of Responses
Seems like most all medical professionals will not touch this subject. I have had NO responses from any requests from CDC, HeartCenterOnLine, or any others. I did make a return call to the CDC hot line and got what may be the only reasonable answer.
In summary, transplant patients need special medication to prevent rejection. She claimed that was the reasoning for them to not get the vaccine. For us, there was still no definitive answer. It seems that the normal pathway for this type of info would be from the valve maker to the doctor they sent it to, as some sort of alert. That doctor would, in turn, make a judgement of what to do and who to do it to.
Thus the following is the recommended best course of action for us:
Each individual should probably wait until just before the decision is required and then call the attending surgeon and ask if you should/or should not take the vaccine based on what he knows about your type valve and your operation details. Additionally, since the surgeon probably doesn't see much of you anymore, the doctor that knows the most about you at that time should also be consulted. And then... it becomes a risk vs payoff item for you and those that depend on you.
Good Luck
Lack of Responses
Seems like most all medical professionals will not touch this subject. I have had NO responses from any requests from CDC, HeartCenterOnLine, or any others. I did make a return call to the CDC hot line and got what may be the only reasonable answer.
In summary, transplant patients need special medication to prevent rejection. She claimed that was the reasoning for them to not get the vaccine. For us, there was still no definitive answer. It seems that the normal pathway for this type of info would be from the valve maker to the doctor they sent it to, as some sort of alert. That doctor would, in turn, make a judgement of what to do and who to do it to.
Thus the following is the recommended best course of action for us:
Each individual should probably wait until just before the decision is required and then call the attending surgeon and ask if you should/or should not take the vaccine based on what he knows about your type valve and your operation details. Additionally, since the surgeon probably doesn't see much of you anymore, the doctor that knows the most about you at that time should also be consulted. And then... it becomes a risk vs payoff item for you and those that depend on you.
Good Luck
LUVMyBirman
Well-known member
I might have conveyed my feelings on this subject in an earlier post? Anyway, will not be personally taking the vaccine myself unless there is a noted outbreak. May be a good chance I am covered from childhood? Going to check into that with my former doctor.
Where I am stuck is with my 6 year old. At this point, we will wait and see if there is an outbreak. I feel taking the vaccine at his point in time is premature. Risks may outweigh benefits. Unknowns. We can only hope and pray there will not be a need.
For now, I wouldn't let it weigh on your mind. If I have learned one thing in life, is not to worry about the "what ifs" Took me 30 years to realize it. But hey, life is a lot simpler now. Issues that are beyond our control, even matters of the heart...we have can't control it so just roll with it
Where I am stuck is with my 6 year old. At this point, we will wait and see if there is an outbreak. I feel taking the vaccine at his point in time is premature. Risks may outweigh benefits. Unknowns. We can only hope and pray there will not be a need.
For now, I wouldn't let it weigh on your mind. If I have learned one thing in life, is not to worry about the "what ifs" Took me 30 years to realize it. But hey, life is a lot simpler now. Issues that are beyond our control, even matters of the heart...we have can't control it so just roll with it
joy
Well-known member
Ok guys, I am here. I talked to my brother, who is a sargeant major (E9) in the army, and this is what he said...don't run out and get your kids vaccinated with it. THey are only giving 1/2 a million military the smallpox vaccination. Weekycat, your daughter will probably end up with it if she is in basic. My husband will probably never get it. It hasn't been tested on enough people to know yet if it is safe or not. My brother is probably going to Bosnia and as far as he knows HE doesn't have to get it. It isn't safe for transplant patients to get it so I doubt it wouldn't be safe for heart patients to get it. I will never get it. My kids will never get it. I guess maybe I am stupid, but I am not worried about getting the disease...yet.
The one thing that really makes me mad is the military tests this crap on their people...Hugh, you have no idea what they do to the forces out there. The minute anyone signs those papers to go to basic, they become government property. They test all sorts of biological stuff on them. I saw on a news cast one time, they sprayed a carrier with something...I think it was anthrax while people were outside. They wait until the ship is in the ocean and do this crap. THese are human beings. I would SUE if they EVER did anything like that to my husband. They make the military get all sorts of unsafe vaccinations..anthrax, typhoid, you name it. Don't think that if they give this to the military it's safe. This country's leaders don't care about the "little guys who do all the work and make zip."
Hospitals are probably just getting their stock up so that they have enough if there ever was a chemical war. I am not getting that poison, and neither are my kids OR my husband. He will go UA before they try to test some crap on him! Sorry, this subject just strikes a nerve with me every time.
The one thing that really makes me mad is the military tests this crap on their people...Hugh, you have no idea what they do to the forces out there. The minute anyone signs those papers to go to basic, they become government property. They test all sorts of biological stuff on them. I saw on a news cast one time, they sprayed a carrier with something...I think it was anthrax while people were outside. They wait until the ship is in the ocean and do this crap. THese are human beings. I would SUE if they EVER did anything like that to my husband. They make the military get all sorts of unsafe vaccinations..anthrax, typhoid, you name it. Don't think that if they give this to the military it's safe. This country's leaders don't care about the "little guys who do all the work and make zip."
Hospitals are probably just getting their stock up so that they have enough if there ever was a chemical war. I am not getting that poison, and neither are my kids OR my husband. He will go UA before they try to test some crap on him! Sorry, this subject just strikes a nerve with me every time.
joy
Well-known member
I checked Jean's site on who will be getting this...it is ONLY IN THE EVENT OF AN OUTBREAK! And, only certain people that are overseas and in high risk areas are being offered the vaccine. Like I said before...the hospitals are just getting enough in stock incase of an outbreak. It is not even available to civilians unless they are DoD employees.
hensylee
Well-known member
Thanks, Joy - knew we would get the real scoop from you. Very informative.
As to experimentation, there was a TV documentary movie about Miss (somebody)'s Boys. Such a tragedy what they did to those men in Alabama during WWII (re syphillis).
Friend told me she saw a bumper sticker:
I love my country, but I am afraid of my government!!!
As to experimentation, there was a TV documentary movie about Miss (somebody)'s Boys. Such a tragedy what they did to those men in Alabama during WWII (re syphillis).
Friend told me she saw a bumper sticker:
I love my country, but I am afraid of my government!!!
H
hhardt
Boy am I in the wrong spot. I love my country, trust my government and spent 20 years in the Navy to earn the right for you'all to say different. My experience is real and direct and at the top level and I never saw any hint of any other attitude than "my men". Don't know where you all got all those other experiences - except for maybe listening too much to CNN and the like. Those of us that were there and did that saw something really different. We may have been fools, but some died for what we believed and trusted.
I'll just bow out now.
I'll just bow out now.
joy
Well-known member
what ever, call me a liar then. I do not watch too much CNN...Let me guess you were an officer, right? Well, good for you. I get ridiculed every day for just being a "navy wife." I am human too
M
mamsram
"I may not agree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it" So, for service men and women everywhere, many of us thank you for that.
I remember my first smallpox vaccination and the resulting round red scab. It was in the 1940's somwhere in that range.
My next one was in 1960 when I was drafted into the army. NOT A VOLUNTEER I didn't choose to be Gov. issue (G.I.) but did my duty.
I know people that were conscientious objectors but still willing to serve in some way and volunteered for experimental trials. Also read that prisoners volunteered for reduced sentences. There are cases where G.I.s were used in some trials with and without their knowledge. the thinking being that it is for the overall good. ( a case in point is the a-bomb tests that exposed people to radiation.) We know that sending a squad to take out a machine-gun nest will result in deaths, but has to be done to protect the platoon. This is the nature of battle. People that go into the service should be aware that they may be expected to be involved in life threatening situations. Military thinking--sucess is the ultimate goal of our action.
I recently saw old film that showed people with smallpox. IT WAS HIDIOUS! to even think that this scurge would be unleashed on the general population is unbelievable. And to think, we almost had this eradicated. When I think about it, it makes me shudder.
If there was a good chance that this would be unleashed on the world once again, would I want my loved ones innoculated? after seeing thoe pictures, you bet your sweet mule I would.
I remember my first smallpox vaccination and the resulting round red scab. It was in the 1940's somwhere in that range.
My next one was in 1960 when I was drafted into the army. NOT A VOLUNTEER I didn't choose to be Gov. issue (G.I.) but did my duty.
I know people that were conscientious objectors but still willing to serve in some way and volunteered for experimental trials. Also read that prisoners volunteered for reduced sentences. There are cases where G.I.s were used in some trials with and without their knowledge. the thinking being that it is for the overall good. ( a case in point is the a-bomb tests that exposed people to radiation.) We know that sending a squad to take out a machine-gun nest will result in deaths, but has to be done to protect the platoon. This is the nature of battle. People that go into the service should be aware that they may be expected to be involved in life threatening situations. Military thinking--sucess is the ultimate goal of our action.
I recently saw old film that showed people with smallpox. IT WAS HIDIOUS! to even think that this scurge would be unleashed on the general population is unbelievable. And to think, we almost had this eradicated. When I think about it, it makes me shudder.
If there was a good chance that this would be unleashed on the world once again, would I want my loved ones innoculated? after seeing thoe pictures, you bet your sweet mule I would.
joy
Well-known member
These days most people who join the navy(the people I know anyways) join because there just aren't any jobs out there for the average american citizen. That is exactly why Kevin is still in the navy. To make money and have health insurance. I don't believe anyone has the right to test crap out on them. with or without their knowledge. How do you think the average american citizen would feel if they just dumped a bunch of anthrax on say, the state of California? Don't think that would be too popular, now would it. It's a shame, especially since these men are just trying to scrape up a living just like everyone else. They have families that they are trying to house, and friends. Maybe the administration should actually test some deadly disease out on the whitehouse and see how they feel. It wouldn't happen, because to them, the president is too important. Yet the sailors in the US Navy are expendible. Funny how that works, huh?
W
wlaldridge
Oh Joy,
It makes me sad that you have such a painful attitude ragarding leaders and leadership, as well as, the plight of enlisted personnel in the military. I will be the first to admit that some things happen that no one should be proud of, however:
I know for both enlisted and officer ranks(I am former navy and my three sons are former enlisted Navy, Marine, and my youngest is Army Airborne) Officers and NCO's are taugh to "lead from the front" and that means go where your people are about to go. If we had to be out at "zero dark thirty" for whatever, thats where the Officers and NCO's were too. Interestingly when my youngest son went to parachute jump school on the day of his first jump the first three parachute "dummies" that made the jump on that day, in that condition, was the commanding general and his two highest level aids/executive officers. And that was the way it always is for "jump week" when these folks make their qualifing jumps.
I believe the president has taken the small pox vaccination or is about to.
As for spraying a carrier with anthrax- I do not know of this experiment, not saying it didn't happen. Have to believe everyone was vaccinated first! And remember a large carrier with it's airgroup is 5000+ people. There are hundreds of officers and usually an Admiral aboard, so it is just not a bunch of E-3 and below getting this treatment. You better believe a one or two star will not sit still for mistreatment of his ships or his personnel.
Not to say that the military is a soft life or a perfect world. But, neither is the private sector, large organizations do have some problems, but most are anxious to correct the defects.
I know you had a tough go recently with your husband stuck in San Diego trying to get back to you when you really needed him, for that I am truely sorry and wished I could "pull some strings" to help out. My youngest son is in Korea now completing a yearlong tour(if there is further deployment of the 82nd Airborne, he may be forced to stay longer in Korea. He was married on January 12, 2002 and shipped to Korea on February 15, 2002, not the ideal way to start married life. He didn't like it one little bit. However, while he was there he did re-enlist inspite of the "mistreatment" maybe for some of the same reasons you and your family are still in, but on balance the military does offer a good job.
As for the testing vaccines on the troops, I think they are doing the best they can to "protect" those that are most likely to be exposed. I remember well an incident in 1962 when the carrier group I was with got ordered to go from the east coast to Peru, as we headed for the Panama Canal a top speed every person was ordered to sickbay for shot updates. Anyone who had not had the tropicals in the proper time frame were given the shot. Typhus, yellow fever, colera, etc. Not fun but getting the disease is worse over the entire group. Our Captain and Admiral were right in line like the rest showing their shot cards and exposing their arms. We had all been vaccinated for smallpox back in that day already.
I hope I haven't fueled the fire too much, but do not think the leaders of today are as bad as you suggest, they are humans too and doing the best with what they have to work with.
My very best wishes to you and yours for a better year ahead.
Bill
It makes me sad that you have such a painful attitude ragarding leaders and leadership, as well as, the plight of enlisted personnel in the military. I will be the first to admit that some things happen that no one should be proud of, however:
I know for both enlisted and officer ranks(I am former navy and my three sons are former enlisted Navy, Marine, and my youngest is Army Airborne) Officers and NCO's are taugh to "lead from the front" and that means go where your people are about to go. If we had to be out at "zero dark thirty" for whatever, thats where the Officers and NCO's were too. Interestingly when my youngest son went to parachute jump school on the day of his first jump the first three parachute "dummies" that made the jump on that day, in that condition, was the commanding general and his two highest level aids/executive officers. And that was the way it always is for "jump week" when these folks make their qualifing jumps.
I believe the president has taken the small pox vaccination or is about to.
As for spraying a carrier with anthrax- I do not know of this experiment, not saying it didn't happen. Have to believe everyone was vaccinated first! And remember a large carrier with it's airgroup is 5000+ people. There are hundreds of officers and usually an Admiral aboard, so it is just not a bunch of E-3 and below getting this treatment. You better believe a one or two star will not sit still for mistreatment of his ships or his personnel.
Not to say that the military is a soft life or a perfect world. But, neither is the private sector, large organizations do have some problems, but most are anxious to correct the defects.
I know you had a tough go recently with your husband stuck in San Diego trying to get back to you when you really needed him, for that I am truely sorry and wished I could "pull some strings" to help out. My youngest son is in Korea now completing a yearlong tour(if there is further deployment of the 82nd Airborne, he may be forced to stay longer in Korea. He was married on January 12, 2002 and shipped to Korea on February 15, 2002, not the ideal way to start married life. He didn't like it one little bit. However, while he was there he did re-enlist inspite of the "mistreatment" maybe for some of the same reasons you and your family are still in, but on balance the military does offer a good job.
As for the testing vaccines on the troops, I think they are doing the best they can to "protect" those that are most likely to be exposed. I remember well an incident in 1962 when the carrier group I was with got ordered to go from the east coast to Peru, as we headed for the Panama Canal a top speed every person was ordered to sickbay for shot updates. Anyone who had not had the tropicals in the proper time frame were given the shot. Typhus, yellow fever, colera, etc. Not fun but getting the disease is worse over the entire group. Our Captain and Admiral were right in line like the rest showing their shot cards and exposing their arms. We had all been vaccinated for smallpox back in that day already.
I hope I haven't fueled the fire too much, but do not think the leaders of today are as bad as you suggest, they are humans too and doing the best with what they have to work with.
My very best wishes to you and yours for a better year ahead.
Bill
joy
Well-known member
Maybe I confused you guys when I replied. I didn't mean I hate the military, I meant that they could treat us a little better. I am speaking from a wive's point of view. Maybe it was just that one particular command that my husband was in that treated the men badly, but everybody except for the XO, CO, and LCDR called it NCTS auschweitz because of the way that command was run. Aweful. He likes his command now, and gets treated with respect. Anyways, I hate how they treat us as a navy wife. IT sucks that everytime I go to the dr, they treat me like I am stupid. THis hospital here in bremerton is supposed to be one of the best in the navy, well, I would hate to see the worst. If you read my personal story you will see how I came to find out about my heart disease. The military is good to us now. Kevin will have been on shore duty for 8 years by the time his PRD comes around, and that has been nice. He has 3 years left of it. I was just trying to point out the fact that military life is NOT the best or easiest life to live. It's hard. Bill, I feel bad for your son but sympathize with his wife. I understand what she is going through. Don't get me wrong, I am not a democrat, but I have yet to see a president that has REALLY impressed me. Neither party has, and I just quit voting, because I haen't found a candidate worth voting for. I think I should be the next freaking president! Yeah, that would happen! Anyways, sorry to sadden you guys, but I just wanted to make a point that in the past, they haven't always done the best things to the military either.
hensylee
Well-known member
Joy - please don't give up your voting rights. It is very important that you vote. You have a voice and it can only be heard by your vote in the ballot box. It is a privilege that Americans should never take lightly. Most times, you are not voting for the individual, but the party. If you find that an individual from another party than yours is your choice, then vote for her/him. Just please vote.
As for the current thread above, I believe that men and women see things in a whole different light from each other. It is our natures and nothing can change it. They will fight for your right to feel the way you do - and for the way they feel. It's the American way, right?
Bless you, Child - you just hang onto your beliefs, but put it in the ballot box. OK?
As for the current thread above, I believe that men and women see things in a whole different light from each other. It is our natures and nothing can change it. They will fight for your right to feel the way you do - and for the way they feel. It's the American way, right?
Bless you, Child - you just hang onto your beliefs, but put it in the ballot box. OK?
H
hhardt
Health Care "Professionals"
Health Care "Professionals"
Referencing today's USA Today where medical staffs are opting not to be vaccinated.
Sounds like the so-called protectors are either caring only for themselves - or they are "chicken".
I don't mind people with real concerns voicing those concerns, but when those who are supposedly providing health care protection for the public won't take the proper protections in order to be available if/when the emergency occurs, they shirk their duties and should not claim to be professionals.
It is still more dangerous to drive to the hospital than to get the vaccination - and that includes those at risk!
It is a good thing the military is not a democracy. If you claim the title, you have to fulfill the obligations.
Health Care "Professionals"
Referencing today's USA Today where medical staffs are opting not to be vaccinated.
Sounds like the so-called protectors are either caring only for themselves - or they are "chicken".
I don't mind people with real concerns voicing those concerns, but when those who are supposedly providing health care protection for the public won't take the proper protections in order to be available if/when the emergency occurs, they shirk their duties and should not claim to be professionals.
It is still more dangerous to drive to the hospital than to get the vaccination - and that includes those at risk!
It is a good thing the military is not a democracy. If you claim the title, you have to fulfill the obligations.
joy
Well-known member
i agree, if you choose to enlist, do your duty without complaint. Kevin learned that. He doesn't have to get vaccinated, but might someday. I just don't like the fact that they test stuff on them without telling them. I was watching 20/20, or dateline and they were showing a story on this guy who was there,m and he came home, and since there had been something in their water, he got really sick, and couldn't even live his life. He ended up dying. He had a wife and kid, and the "military treatment facility" kept telling them that it was all in his head. Yeah, I saw what he went from and then what he became...all in his head my foot. I get mad at that. I think it is BS that the medical community refuses to get vaccinated yet they promote the vaccination? Stupid!
H
hhardt
An Answer
An Answer
Today I consulted with my cardiologist. I also got a reading from Dr Rich at the about.com site. Both doctors know of no problems with smallpox vaccines in patients with these valves. Unlike transplant patients, valve recipients are not on immunosuppressive therapy. That seems to be the general opinion of all that give one. Its amazing how simple the answers are when chips are down and the threat real.
Hopefully this is just a drill, but one must think these things out when the water is calm.
An Answer
Today I consulted with my cardiologist. I also got a reading from Dr Rich at the about.com site. Both doctors know of no problems with smallpox vaccines in patients with these valves. Unlike transplant patients, valve recipients are not on immunosuppressive therapy. That seems to be the general opinion of all that give one. Its amazing how simple the answers are when chips are down and the threat real.
Hopefully this is just a drill, but one must think these things out when the water is calm.
