Road rage -Pradaxa- homicide?

[Marty]

Librado Cena, 58, religious director St.Leo the Great Catholic church, confronted William O'Brien 63, retired mortgage specialist, in the parking lot of a mall because O'Brien had repeatedly honked at him. A scuffle ensued wherein Cena landed a single punch to O'Brien's head. An hour later O'Brien collapsed and later died of a brain hemorrhage. A medical examiner ruled the death a homicide. However, soon to come to light was O'Briens prescription for Pradaxa an anti-stroke drug that made him vulnerable to a single punch causing bleeding into the brain .Pradaxa is an anticoagulant for which there is no antidote. I will be interested in the groups comment about this interesting case. More detaisl are available at washingtonpost.com 2-24-2014.

 

[Duffey]

I read the article, Marty, and I think the charges of misdemeanor assault and battery are proper. I am not on an anticoagulant, but I think the medication, Pradaxa, is one that I would not want to be on. The fact that there is little to counteract its action makes it extremely dangerous; much more so than warafin, in my opinion.

The larger issue is the question of what pushes people to engage in road rage. Both men were old enough to know better than to confront a stranger over a minor incident. Unfortunately both families now how to live with the consequences of their actions.

 

[tom in MO]

People die of a single punch to the head w/o being on an anticoagulant. We just have had two in my community within the last year.

Anytime someone dies from bleeding out due to an injury, if they are on an anticoagulant they blame the drug not the injury. That's one of the reasons I think the mortality rate for warfarin may not be accurate.

 

[Agian]

Growing up, people used to get into punch-ups all the time. I would've thought dying as a consequence of one punch to the head is pretty rare. And yet, we seem to be having an epidemic. I'm sure the man who threw the punch, didn't intend for the other guy to die. 'religious director', you say?

 

[Marty]

People die of a single punch to the head w/o being on an anticoagulant. We just have had two in my community within the last year.

Anytime someone dies from bleeding out due to an injury, if they are on an anticoagulant they blame the drug not the injury. That's one of the reasons I think the mortality rate for warfarin may not be accurate.

Tom, I wonder if the O'Brien family should sue Boehringer-Ingelheim the maker of Pradaxa for contributing to O'Briens death? I think they have a case. A review of Pradaxa on the internet reveals numerous lawyers eager for Pradaxa cases, I myself would not take Pradaxa. I think it is dangerous.

 

[mbeard]

There was a story on our local news this week. Two men broke into a man's house and robbed him,, and one of them strangled him. They charged them with 1st degree murder. Then the autopsy was performed, and it was discovered that he died of an aortic aneurysm. They dropped the charge to attempted murder? Anyone care to comment?

 

[Marty]

There was a story on our local news this week. Two men broke into a man's house and robbed him,, and one of them strangled him. They charged them with 1st degree murder. Then the autopsy was performed, and it was discovered that he died of an aortic aneurysm. They dropped the charge to attempted murder? Anyone care to comment?

I am not a lawyer but I disagree. I believe the charge should remain first degree murder.

 

[mbeard]

My cardiologist says I have something that I will not die FROM, but die WITH, and those men got in the way of that way of life I have chosen. I guess. The sentence isn't so different between 25 /35 years incarcerated.

 

[AZ Don]

I don't have enough info to second guess the grand jury, but in general I believe that if someone instigates something, then they should be held responsible for the outcome, even if there were other contributing factors and the outcome was not what they intended.

 

[mbeard]

Az,

I agree with you. It just startled me because of my enlarged aorta. I might be even more feisty if they come on me now...watch out!

 

[Marty]

Jury verdict misdemeanor assault

Jury verdict misdemeanor assault

A Fairfax county jury convicted Librador Cena of misdemeanor assault. He faces possible twelve months in jail. Of interest to vr.org was testimony by a doctor who said O'Brien was made vulnerable to a single punch by Pradaxa the popular blood thinner he was taking.The doctor stated "I wold not have expected that force of injury to cause a fatality."

 

[Agian]

Do we know who started it? Just putting it out there.

 

[Marty]

Do we know who started it? Just putting it out there.

According to the newspaper Cena confronted O'Brien in the mall parking lot and said "You don't have to to honk at me like that. One of these days you are going to get your ass kicked!" Cena said he was surprised when O'Brien turned around and challenged him." Well, let's go right now." Video apparently shows Cena backing away when O'Brien punched him in the face. In turn Cena punched O'Brien knocking his glasses off.
Witnesses and video seem to confirm O'Brien threw the first punch.

 

[Duffey]

I don't think O'Brien's family should sue the drug manufacturer since he threw the first punch. Since he was on the medication, and hopefully was aware of the possibility of uncontrolled bleeding, he basically put himself in harm's way when he hit Cena. I think lawyers might make the same argument. However, if he had not thrown the first punch, then I think the family would have a case against the drug manufacturer.
Just my opinion!:wink2:

 

[Marty]

I don't think O'Brien's family should sue the drug manufacturer since he threw the first punch. Since he was on the medication, and hopefully was aware of the possibility of uncontrolled bleeding, he basically put himself in harm's way when he hit Cena. I think lawyers might make the same argument. However, if he had not thrown the first punch, then I think the family would have a case against the drug manufacturer.
Just my opinion!:wink2:

Excellent. I agree. If you are on anticoagulants you should not be involved in road rage punch ups. I do have this question. If O'Brien had been on warfarin could an injection of Vitamin K have saved him?.

 

[Duffey]

Excellent. I agree. If you are on anticoagulants you should not be involved in road rage punch ups. I do have this question. If O'Brien had been on warfarin could an injection of Vitamin K have saved him?.

I don't know the answer, but I am interested in hearing what others think!

 

[Marty]

I don't know the answer, but I am interested in hearing what others think!

We cannot know if O'Brien's life could have been saved if he was taking warfarin instead of Pradaxa. We do know that Vitamin K and fresh frozen plasma can immediately reverse warfarin anticoagulation. This might have saved O'Brien.

 

[tom in MO]

The makers of the anticoagulant are not responsible if someone bleeds out due to misuse of the drug or to things that happen in life. It's all about relative risk; the risk of anticoagulation vs. the risk of a clot. It's the patient's choice. Now if the guy had died due to a problem the manufacturer knew about, or should have known about, that's a different ballgame.

 

[marc_kowal]

I don't have a law degree but my wife does and works for a large pharmaceutical company in the labeling division. The makers of the drug should not be held accountable in my opinion. Whenever you take medicine, there is an inherient risk and potential side-effects. That's one of the reasons theres an insert that the pharmacy gives you with your medicine. It lists possible side-effects (common and the most rare types). The drug manufacturers do not force you to take their meidcations. It's the responsibility of the patient and doctor to weigh the pros and cons of the medicine and decide if the risk is worth the reward.

 

[Marty]

The makers of the anticoagulant are not responsible if someone bleeds out due to misuse of the drug or to things that happen in life. It's all about relative risk; the risk of anticoagulation vs. the risk of a clot. It's the patient's choice. Now if the guy had died due to a problem the manufacturer knew about, or should have known about, that's a different ballgame.

I agree. However this case indicates to me that warfarin, an anticoagulant with an antidote, may be less risky than Pradaxa which has none. I cannot take Pradaxa because I have mechanical valve. However my wife is also on warfarin for afib. She has decided some time ago to stay with warfarin. She has been self testing and self dosing for many years and finds it only a minor inconveniece