Risk Found in People Taking Statin Drugs

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My dr allowed me to quit Lipitor for a year because of the muscle problems, but the numbers went back up so I started it again at his direction. Same problems with muscles. I was becoming a cripple and using a walker. My cardio told me there are some of us who just cannot take statins. I do agree that Lipitor worked well in lowering my cholesterol and I'd still be on it if there were not the pain and crippling effects. From testing reports by independent labs, it appears it is a 'wonder' drug, just not for some of us.
 
Personally after seeing what statins did to my wife, I will NEVER take a stain drug no matter what. Even though the side effects are in the TV adds, most doctors just blow that off, and say 'oh just take the pill anyway'.
What some of our younger members do not understand, is there is life and then there is living. If a pill keeps you alive but eliminates any and all quality of life, what good is it. If you are content to sit in a chair all day and stare out the window, then maybe these meds are for you.
To lower your cholesterol they say also include diet and exercise, well if these meds destroy your muscles how will you exercise?
And remember as I have stated in the past, your heart IS A MUSCLE !
I also see a direct correlation in recent years of lowering the ranges for cholesterol, diabetis,etc. This has translated into selling billions of pills and pocketing billions of dollars.
In addition I have seen a number of friends die from unexplainable liver cancer.
So I say thanks but no thanks !
Rich
 
Anecdotal stories about problems with statins can be very compelling. However, think for a minute about how many people are taking these drugs across the world. Of course, there are going to be some people who react bad to a drug so widely prescribed. But, by and large, most people tolerate stains very well. Do you really think the five other doctors at Marty's table would be taking statins if it made there muscles hurt that bad? Or if they thought it would give them liver cancer....Anecdotes from people who do not do well are frequent for every drug. People who have no problems with a drug don't really worry about posting.You guys are quick to minimize the experience of someone who doesn't do well on coumadin, and point out how the majority of people don't have any problems on coumadin. I am just doing the same thing with statins!!!!!

And believe it or not some of the younger members on here have a lot of experience with decisions about life verse quality of living. Many of these decisions may even be significantly more difficult than the decisions that our older members face, whereas we have so many years in front of us. Maybe you think it is enviable to be in a position at the age of 24 years where you have had to make not one, but two major decisions about your health? Do you somehow think it is easy to try to decide between a lifetime on coumadin and a tissue valve when you are in your teens or early twenties???
 
I also have not seen mention of those who died from some of the statins recalled and taken off the market not many years back.
I certainly hope never to see a repeat of that.
In the meantime for me and others I know, it is our body and we will continue to do it our way.
And I am more familier than you may think with what some younger people are facing.
I have a sixteen year old grandson who is facing AVR in the not too distant future.
Rich
 
Bradley White said:
I'll tell you right now that statins are not a pure marketing ploy. Certainly they are aggressively marketed as our many other drugs. Just because your mother and others have side effects from them does not mean they are a "marketing ploys." They save the life of hundreds of thousands of people every year. These anecdotes about statins are all well and good, but look at the statistics.

This is a drug that has given extra years to people across the globe, please do not call it a pure marketing ploy...I think that is very irresponsible behavior...
Still fresh on my mind are your comments :eek: to what I posted on this subject in another thread; but I got to wondering, if you don't mind replying, do you or have you taken statins? Or what experience contributes to your opinion about them? (edit - I don't mean this to sound like an attack; it certainly isn't meant to be one.)
 
Gosh - I just thought this thread was about the risk of statins. One would expect people to point out that they might have had problems with statins in such a thread. I am not sure why we are being slammed for telling our stories. Not sure how coumadin managed to make its way again into an urelated thread.

Feel free to defend statins if you want but please don't make light of those of us who have had bad experiences or imply that we are wrong.
 
Right on Gina,
We are not here to start a dispute, rather just to share our personal experiences.
What may be good for some will not be good for others.
And remember there are alternative treatments and medications for those who cannot tolerate these drugs.
Rich
 
It's a business, ALL THE WAY AROUND. From the medical professionals down to the sales reps for the drug companies. Pure and simple "business". Pays the bills. Right or wrong.

Our business takes a percentage of each credit card transaction ran through the system. Puts food on my table. Just as the drug companies and whom they employ. Necessary evils. We all pay somewhere. With our health or our pocket, maybe both. Just life.:rolleyes:

Access your personal situation and make the choice that's best for you and yours. Again....just like valve choice. Very personal opinion.
 
Susan,

I have never taken statins. I am a scientist by trade and dislike people making completely false statements (i.e. statins are just a pure marketing ploy).

Gina,

People are not just sharing their experiences. Someone specifically said statins are just a marketing ploy. Does this sounds like relating an experience to you? Or does it sounds like a generalization based off of one's individual experience.

Rich,

I'm sorry to hear about your grandson. But I still don't think you have any right to minimize the experience and decisions that younger heart patients had to go through.



I feel it is irresponsible to continually bash the use of a highly effective drug based on your personal stories. How would you guys like it if one of our members who had a horrible time with coumadin was constantly bashing it? I don't think you would like it very much at all. I bring up the coumadin comparison to try and make you understand the hypocritical nature of this message board based on what drug is being talked about.
 
Bradley,

I am not looking to fight with you but your original comments seemed to be questioning the experiences shared by those of us who have had a bad time with statins not just the one comment about a marketing ploy. Had you directed your displeasure just against that statement, I would not have responded.

There are many people who talk about their negative experiences with coumadin so I disagree with your statement.

I also humbly take exception to you telling me I cannot express my opinions about a drug that caused me problems. Who are you to tell me I am irresponsible and hypocritcal? Discussing our experiences is not bashing, it is merely sharing. You need to be a little kinder with your posts.
 
Sorry if I offended you Gina. It was not my intention. However, I stand by my points. Drugs effect every person differently. Anyone who wants to share their experience should be allowed to do so. However, making sweeping predictions/generalizations based on one's own experiences (I counted 5 of these on this thread) while ignoring mountains of clinical evidence is, in my opinion, irresponsible. This would be the same as someone coming on and saying:

"I hate coumadin. It caused me to bleed constantly from every orifice. Basically, it is a big farce and I think it is going to have a lot of long term negative health impacts. I would rather live a shorter life and not have to take coumadin. In my opinion, it is awful."

How long would this statement last on this board before this person was ripped into from every which direction? Maybe an hour or two?

My paragraph on side effects was simply put up to show that the percentage of people experiencing side effects is very low and that the benefits far outweigh the risks. It was not meant to try to say that the side-effects you guys are experiencing are not real. I am sure they are.

Things only began to get a bit chirpy when I thought that there was an ad-hominem attack by Rich against me based on my age. Perhaps I over reacted to this and my words afterwards were too harsh. However, I stand by my points about statins.

I wish I never would have taken up the cause of statins but I felt compelled to. I now wish I would have just minded my own business and is what I will be doing from now on. Sorry to anyone I offended.
 
One of the things we all need to remember is that each of us have the right to express our opinion. I would defend a person's right to make the statement about coumadin that you noted. Perhaps my original post should have read:

I would rather take my chances with slightly high cholesterol than with meds that have (caused me) such side effects. Always makes me wonder what else is going on in (my) the body with these meds.

I also defend your right to speak out in defense of statins. I just felt the words "irresponsible" and "hypocritical" were out of line. However, that is only my opinion and certainly was not intended to keep you from posting.
 
I am 66 years old. My surgeon and my cardiologist wanted me on statins after surgery. I took Lipitor for a while and then had a liver test. Some enzime(sp?) was elevated. I stopped then I started again after a while. When my cholestoral levels became very low in a very short time , I stopped..
I am now off statims. Maybe it was my imagination, maybe because I was worried about it... but while I took statins I felt wierd, nervous ..
The last time my cholesteral was checked, my LDL was about 100, my HDL in the low 60's. I try to eat healthy. I exercise regularly. I really think your body needs a certain amount of cholesteral to function. I am due to go back my PCP and also my cardiologist this fall. I know the battle will start again. I don't know what I will do.
BUT I know that I took Prempro(HRT) for over 10 years. When I started taking it , I needed it. But when I wanted to get off, my gynegologist talked me into staying on it because of the benefit to my HEART and BONES. Can't prove it by me..I have both HEART PROBLEMS and OSTEOPOROSIS. It may have upped my chances of getting certain kinds of cancer. So what does one do?
My brother, whom I gave a kidney to many years ago, had to take an anti rejection drug. He developed cancer that they said was probably related to the the anti rejection drug. That cancer is what killed him. I know, he really had no choice and he lived many years free of dialysis. BUT to me, that says that most drugs have some side effects. You have to weigh the risks against the benefits.
Back to statins..... this not the first article that I read that says that "older" people do better with a slightly higher cholestoral level. I do not know enough to really weigh the risks against the benefits so... What do I do??????
 
Bradley, no one who has posted on this thread with anecdotal evidence against statin drugs is being irresponsible. It is what it is, and everyone here understands that.

The case about coumadin being dangerous and how we would protest against such a comment is a moot point. I, as well as others who received their valves years ago, weren't really given a choice. My hotshot doc in Indianapolis went in for a repair and ended up replacing it. I came out of that surgery faced with a lifetime of coumadin use. There is no alternative here: I either take it or have a stroke. I believe there are people (myself being one) who can lower their cholesterol by making dietary changes. I just proved that this year by lowering my number. Not everyone can do that, and if they choose to take the chances of having the side effects, then the drug will help them.

I absolutely believe that there is some aggressive marketing in the drug industry. Heck, Chaucer in the Canterbury Tales "Prologue" even made reference to docs and pharmacists "helping" each other out. It's an issue that's been around for a long, long time.
 
Payoffs to doctors ? You decide.

Payoffs to doctors ? You decide.

Docs Get Paid To Switch To Generic Drugs
Incentives Raise Ethical Questions

UPDATED: 4:15 pm EDT August 2, 2007


BOSTON -- Health insurers are giving doctors incentives, sometimes in cash, to

switch patients to generic brands, Boston television station WCVB has reported.

Feature: Generics Just As Good?





The payments are legal, but health care experts said they clearly raise ethical

questions if patients are not told the reasons behind the switch.

Much of the controversy centers on the cholesterol drug Lipitor, which is the

best-selling medicine in the world. It is currently under a patent and does not have

a generic version.

Thousands of Massachusetts patients recently discovered their insurer won't pay

for it anymore or that their out-of-pocket cost has skyrocketed. Other patients told

WCVB they were switched by their physicians with little explanation.

Earlier this year, Blue Care Network in Michigan paid 2,400 doctors $2 million to

switch their patients from Lipitor to a generic version of its competitor, Zocor. They

were paid $100 for each patient they switched from Jan. 1 through March 31, 2007.

"Without saying to the patient, 'I have a financial incentive in making this decision,

which goes along with my professional incentives to do what's right for you,' it's

unethical," said professor Regina Herzlinger of Harvard Business School. "It's a

clear conflict of interest."

WCVB asked Blue Care Network of Michigan if patients were told of the financial

kickback.

A spokeswoman said, "Not specifically."

In Massachusetts, financial arrangements for switching patients from Lipitor are

less blatant, but they do exist.

In a letter obtained by WCVB, Partners Community HealthCare's Medical Director

Dr. Thomas Lee told his colleagues that "physicians will increasingly be rewarded

in our pay-for-performance contracts if we increase the percent of generics we

use. Increasing our use of generic statins is therefore very much to our

advantage."

Former Lipitor patient Genie Holland said, "I'm shocked. They're paying the

doctors? Yes. I'm shocked."

Holland said she was surprised earlier this year when her doctor switched her

from Lipitor to a generic version of Zocor without explanation "because it had

worked for me for so long. I also found that my cholesterol went up after I went on

the generic."

But Herzlinger said the medical efficacy is irrelevant to this debate.

"You've got to tell the patient that 'I'm switching you to a generic, not only because

it's best thing for you and it's going to save you money out-of-pocket, but because

I'm going to make more money as a result of that,'" she said.

In Massachusetts, arrangements vary according to the insurance plan. Some

doctors get a cash bonus at the end of the year for various money-saving

practices, including switching their patients to generics.

Another patient whose doctor switched her from Lipitor to a generic version of

Zocor said, "It really is upsetting to think they would get a kickback from using

certain drugs."

That patient has taken several cholesterol medications over 10 years and had the

best results with Lipitor, but she, too, was recently switched to a generic with little

explanation.

Doctors with whom the station spoke, including Dr. Robert Fraser, said they moved

most people off Lipitor because patients save money. He said he gets a kickback

for only some of his patients, depending on their insurer.

"Well, the problem is I don't know which patient I'm seeing at that moment. If you

walk into my office and at that second, I don't know if you're an HMO patient or

not."
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