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Re-operation.. should it be a deal breaker?
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Alerion
Well-known member
Geebee
Point taken on the ACT issue. on the re-op, franklyu I didn't even know i was sick so a repeat of the same year or so leading up to surgery would be no big deal. Severe scarring and the like would be.
If, as stats indicate might well happen to someone like me who is otherwise healthy, I get 15 years out of a cow valve, that puts me at 63 for the re-op. I can, I've been told by several Drs, then opt for a mech valve and be done with it.
Woodbutcher
That's more like it!
Old gaffer huh? What is she, who designed her, have you done a re-build, can you send a picture? I've been designing and building boats for years and my brother has a business as a boat carpenter out on the west coast.
Pathetic boat nerds, I'm afraid.
Your nephew is my kind of guy. I think I'd have to be 18 or so again to try a stunt like that! My plan is to sail across in the next 10 years (possible early retirement) and spend a year in the Med and the UK and points in between. This is on of the reasons I have been cautious about ACT.
David
Point taken on the ACT issue. on the re-op, franklyu I didn't even know i was sick so a repeat of the same year or so leading up to surgery would be no big deal. Severe scarring and the like would be.
If, as stats indicate might well happen to someone like me who is otherwise healthy, I get 15 years out of a cow valve, that puts me at 63 for the re-op. I can, I've been told by several Drs, then opt for a mech valve and be done with it.
Woodbutcher
That's more like it!
Old gaffer huh? What is she, who designed her, have you done a re-build, can you send a picture? I've been designing and building boats for years and my brother has a business as a boat carpenter out on the west coast.
Pathetic boat nerds, I'm afraid.
Your nephew is my kind of guy. I think I'd have to be 18 or so again to try a stunt like that! My plan is to sail across in the next 10 years (possible early retirement) and spend a year in the Med and the UK and points in between. This is on of the reasons I have been cautious about ACT.
David
Alerion
Well-known member
Cripes Mary! You went back for more?
It must be incredible.
It must be incredible.
Woodbutcher,
Infact it's one of the things that put me off Tissue as I read time after time that youger more active people wear them out much quicker ?
__________________
It depends what you mean by younger teens and 20s really can burn them up, I'm not sure what the cut off point is, but was told it is kind of like how fast you heal broken bones, but Cleveland now gives tissues valves to most patient over 40, http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/disorders/valve/pericardialvalvestory.aspx
I think coumadin could be more of an issue as you get older(meaning 70s and ^ falls other medical issues ect) then day to day living and camping type things now.
Infact it's one of the things that put me off Tissue as I read time after time that youger more active people wear them out much quicker ?
__________________
It depends what you mean by younger teens and 20s really can burn them up, I'm not sure what the cut off point is, but was told it is kind of like how fast you heal broken bones, but Cleveland now gives tissues valves to most patient over 40, http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/disorders/valve/pericardialvalvestory.aspx
I think coumadin could be more of an issue as you get older(meaning 70s and ^ falls other medical issues ect) then day to day living and camping type things now.
Ross
Well-known member
What your EMT friend isn't telling you is that those same injuries wouldn't make a bit of difference whether someone was on Coumadin or not. If it's a major bleed, limb severed, etc, being on Coumadin is the least of that persons worries. Some injuries in life are life threatening period. Honestly, talk with the people on the drug, not those that aren't. They rarely know what they are talking about. Your talking less then 20 seconds difference in clot formation if your in range.
Sorry, but these types of posts where someone who isn't on it, tells others their experience with it. It's like the friend of the friend who's Uncles Cousins daughter said............but she's not on it either, she just knows.
What it all amounts to on Coumadin is, using common sense. If your going to ride a cycle, wear a helmet. Just simple common sense precautions and enjoy your life for cryin out loud. I'm sure there are many here that camp, fish, sail, hike, shoot, chainsaw, everything except perhaps sword fighting, but there again, common sense.
We hear it all, all the time. You can't use a razor, you can't eat greens, don't wash dishes, you could cut yourself and bleed. Sheesh, the list never ends and it's all BS. It's all much a do about nothing. There are way to many fear mongers and myth speakers walking around.
No sir, not trying to change your mind any at all. If you want tissue, you have my blessings, I only want people to understand that ACT is not to be feared and God knows, plenty of people out there are trying real hard to make it that way.
One thing further and I'll shut up. (Yes, I can hear the sighs now!) When I first came here, I was not on Coumadin and I too bought into to all the garbage about it. I even made the statement, "Those poor people on Coumadin, I thank God I'm not on it", Well guess what? They found what they thought was clot in my heart and immediately started me on Coumadin. Suddenly I was thrusted into actually learning about the drug and it's consequences. I laugh so hard now at some things I hear, that sometimes, it really makes my day when some newbie paranoid has been so mistakenly misinformed and we correct it, then they find out too that they bought into a lot of crap.
M
Mary
,Assuming you offer the information that you are on coumadin.
Yep, that's true.
Of course some might compare that to not offering the information you have metal in your body before undergoing a MRI, but to each his own!
L
Lisa in Katy
Ross,
DO NOT tell my husband that it's okay for me to wash dishes or shave my legs. I've been using the Coumadin excuse successfully for over 10 years now!
DO NOT tell my husband that it's okay for me to wash dishes or shave my legs. I've been using the Coumadin excuse successfully for over 10 years now!
Ross
Well-known member
Umm, I'll try to remember. Hey wait a minute, it doesn't work for me around here!
It works here And I don't chop veggies! ha ha ha
And I don't chop veggies! ha ha ha
K
Karlynn
My cousin developed Type I diabetes as a young adult. He was an undercover narcotics officer. He hid it from his employer because he knew that he would be put on a desk the rest of his career if they found out. He was a narc for over 30 years, with his diabetes hidden.
I posted this link on another thread - but a Swiss woman with a St Jude mechanical summited Everest in 2007. http://www.sjm.com/successstories/mteverestsummit.aspx
If you tell yourself that Coumadin will limit your enjoyment of life and keep you from doing the things you love, then it will limit your life and keep you from doing the things you love. Most of us choose to say "Hogwash!!!!!"
I haven't seen Mtkayak in a while. But he does white water kayaking - while on Coumadin. He does the highest class of rapids.
We hear all sorts of stories about things we shouldn't do while on Coumadin because of the risk of bleeding. But I don't know that we've had anyone come on and say " had to give up mountain climbing because I really hurt myself doing it and the Coumadin made it so much worse." There are, unfortunately, certain things employers won't let you do, but that more often from misunderstanding of ACT than reality.
A gash is going to bleed - no matter whether you are on ACT or not. A compound fracture of the leg is going to be a mess - regardless of ACT or not.
The reality is, most people come on here thinking that ACT is going to keep them from fishing in the wilds of Alaska - bologna!!!! Get a home testing unit, take along more than enough strips and warfarin and go fishing! If you're afraid to do that because something might happen when you have no contact with the outside world than you shouldn't go anyway because a tissue valve can still throw a clot and your stats are just about the same for that happening as something serious related to warfarin.
I'm sorry I'm sounding sarcastic - but there's careful and then their paranoid.
I posted this link on another thread - but a Swiss woman with a St Jude mechanical summited Everest in 2007. http://www.sjm.com/successstories/mteverestsummit.aspx
If you tell yourself that Coumadin will limit your enjoyment of life and keep you from doing the things you love, then it will limit your life and keep you from doing the things you love. Most of us choose to say "Hogwash!!!!!"
I haven't seen Mtkayak in a while. But he does white water kayaking - while on Coumadin. He does the highest class of rapids.
We hear all sorts of stories about things we shouldn't do while on Coumadin because of the risk of bleeding. But I don't know that we've had anyone come on and say " had to give up mountain climbing because I really hurt myself doing it and the Coumadin made it so much worse." There are, unfortunately, certain things employers won't let you do, but that more often from misunderstanding of ACT than reality.
A gash is going to bleed - no matter whether you are on ACT or not. A compound fracture of the leg is going to be a mess - regardless of ACT or not.
The reality is, most people come on here thinking that ACT is going to keep them from fishing in the wilds of Alaska - bologna!!!! Get a home testing unit, take along more than enough strips and warfarin and go fishing! If you're afraid to do that because something might happen when you have no contact with the outside world than you shouldn't go anyway because a tissue valve can still throw a clot and your stats are just about the same for that happening as something serious related to warfarin.
I'm sorry I'm sounding sarcastic - but there's careful and then their paranoid.
Nupur
Well-known member
Tissue valves
Tissue valves
When you have a tissue valve in your heart, does your body kind of accept it as your own tissue and work on it the same way? The reason I ask is I am trying to figure out how and why the tissue valves degenerate> Is it just the normal life of the tissue itself, or does your body act on it and make it bad the same way it did the original valve? For folks with calcification, I suppose it will impact the tissue valve as well. For people like me with myxamatous degeneration of the valve, will the same apply to the new tissue valve? Should this be a factor in the decision?
Boy, I am so full of questions today.
David, I am glad you have made a decision! Hope your surgeon and everyone else agrees. Good luck!
Tissue valves
When you have a tissue valve in your heart, does your body kind of accept it as your own tissue and work on it the same way? The reason I ask is I am trying to figure out how and why the tissue valves degenerate> Is it just the normal life of the tissue itself, or does your body act on it and make it bad the same way it did the original valve? For folks with calcification, I suppose it will impact the tissue valve as well. For people like me with myxamatous degeneration of the valve, will the same apply to the new tissue valve? Should this be a factor in the decision?
Boy, I am so full of questions today.
David, I am glad you have made a decision! Hope your surgeon and everyone else agrees. Good luck!
L
Lisa in Katy
What's the lifespan of a pig or cow? That's how long the valves are built to last. My guess is that it has something to do with that.
Jkm7
Well-known member
Okay..... So if a cow only lives 18-20 years, how can surgeons hope our cow valves will function for us beyond that time?
I did a quick google. I was happier before I did that.
I did a quick google. I was happier before I did that.
pamela
Well-known member
That's a myth. Bits of our bodies, be it human's, pig's or cow's, routinely outlast our life span... Cartilege takes a while to decompose no matter if it's native or a graft so the failure of older valve types simply means that the cartilege finally degraded to a point where it is no longer useful.
The newer generations of tissue valves are performing well with hopes of continued success over the long term.
Everyone is Different.
Take Heart,
Pamela
vprnet
Well-known member
Nupur,
They become mechicaly tired, Does not matter that it is made of tissue, the wear is still mechanical fatigue. It's basicaly a very thin piece of leather. Calcium deposits and bodily immune rejection, if present, only agrivates and accelerates the deterioration process.
Unfortunatly, it's not living tissue like your native valve. Its hard to beat your own living tissue or a carbon mechanical valve for mechanical life and immune responce tolerance.
Best wishes
BAVR with 27mm ON-X NYP Weill Cornell Dec 19, 2008.
PS. I am not a medical professional or a doctor. My comments in this forum are my own opinion and are not intended to be given as medical or professional advise or a recommendation of any valve choice. Decisions that affect your health and wellbeing are ultimately yours and your doctors. vprnet
They become mechicaly tired, Does not matter that it is made of tissue, the wear is still mechanical fatigue. It's basicaly a very thin piece of leather. Calcium deposits and bodily immune rejection, if present, only agrivates and accelerates the deterioration process.
Unfortunatly, it's not living tissue like your native valve. Its hard to beat your own living tissue or a carbon mechanical valve for mechanical life and immune responce tolerance.
Best wishes
BAVR with 27mm ON-X NYP Weill Cornell Dec 19, 2008.
PS. I am not a medical professional or a doctor. My comments in this forum are my own opinion and are not intended to be given as medical or professional advise or a recommendation of any valve choice. Decisions that affect your health and wellbeing are ultimately yours and your doctors. vprnet
Alerion
Well-known member
Oh for Pete's sake.
Ok guys, I am sorry but I absolutely have to vent here.
I just want to say...
Look, everybody. I GET IT!
Coumadin is not lethal.
It's not a big deal.
It won't kill me when shaving, etc.
I understand!
Ross-
The first thing I did when I joined this forum - The FIRST THING - was to check your posts as you advised. Then I went to Al Lodwick's site. Then I talked to folks I knew who were on ACT. I was absolutely considering an On-X and I STILL may get it. I just wanted to hear both sides of the issue and I started this thread because I thought the re-op side was under-represented.
That’s all.
Honestly.
I am smart enough to learn from my research and I have to admit I'm getting a little testy with the whole "Coumadin is not what you think" thing.
You guys must be assuming you know what I think, but judging from the posts I sometimes get, I have my doubts.
And, for the record, I know any decision is better than no decision.
What kind of a moron would decide to make no decision? That in itself is making the decision to let your heart kill you. I don't want to die right now.
I am actually torn right down the middle and I'm looking for a sign. That's all this is.
Ok?
BTW, my friend is actually a Para-medic (he wanted that made clear) and his point was that as a med pro, seeing ACT people in wound situations is usually NO BIG DEAL!
Exceptions are things like gunshots, trauma, deep stab wound etc. He thought it would be nice to show EMTs dealing matter-of-factly with the coumadin situation when they go on calls.
In other words, he’s on your side.
BOTH his parents were on it as he will probably have to be. This guy was Army in Iraq the first time around (desertstorm), he’s a fireman and a paramedic and a father and a consummate professional.
HE thinks ACT is a non-issue for the most part (thought he advises against competitive motorcycling and other high-risk activities). He does however understand that it’s potentially dangerous and does not like the combination of ACT and severe body trauma.
Is he full of sh*t or might he have a point?
Look everyone: No one is saying there’s a right way or wrong way.
I know a lot about the ACT side of things and I want to learn just as much about the non-ACT side of things, in particular the severity of the operation itself, hence this thread.
That is all.
I have no hidden agenda.
My friends don’t either.
I am happy the overwhelming majority of ACT patients are happy and healthy since I might be one of them soon.
Please believe me.
I'm sorry if this sounds too emphatic but my nerves are getting a little frayed with this whole OHS thing. I hope you all will forgive the rant.
Thanks
David
Ok guys, I am sorry but I absolutely have to vent here.
I just want to say...
Look, everybody. I GET IT!
Coumadin is not lethal.
It's not a big deal.
It won't kill me when shaving, etc.
I understand!
Ross-
The first thing I did when I joined this forum - The FIRST THING - was to check your posts as you advised. Then I went to Al Lodwick's site. Then I talked to folks I knew who were on ACT. I was absolutely considering an On-X and I STILL may get it. I just wanted to hear both sides of the issue and I started this thread because I thought the re-op side was under-represented.
That’s all.
Honestly.
I am smart enough to learn from my research and I have to admit I'm getting a little testy with the whole "Coumadin is not what you think" thing.
You guys must be assuming you know what I think, but judging from the posts I sometimes get, I have my doubts.
And, for the record, I know any decision is better than no decision.
What kind of a moron would decide to make no decision? That in itself is making the decision to let your heart kill you. I don't want to die right now.
I am actually torn right down the middle and I'm looking for a sign. That's all this is.
Ok?
BTW, my friend is actually a Para-medic (he wanted that made clear) and his point was that as a med pro, seeing ACT people in wound situations is usually NO BIG DEAL!
Exceptions are things like gunshots, trauma, deep stab wound etc. He thought it would be nice to show EMTs dealing matter-of-factly with the coumadin situation when they go on calls.
In other words, he’s on your side.
BOTH his parents were on it as he will probably have to be. This guy was Army in Iraq the first time around (desertstorm), he’s a fireman and a paramedic and a father and a consummate professional.
HE thinks ACT is a non-issue for the most part (thought he advises against competitive motorcycling and other high-risk activities). He does however understand that it’s potentially dangerous and does not like the combination of ACT and severe body trauma.
Is he full of sh*t or might he have a point?
Look everyone: No one is saying there’s a right way or wrong way.
I know a lot about the ACT side of things and I want to learn just as much about the non-ACT side of things, in particular the severity of the operation itself, hence this thread.
That is all.
I have no hidden agenda.
My friends don’t either.
I am happy the overwhelming majority of ACT patients are happy and healthy since I might be one of them soon.
Please believe me.
I'm sorry if this sounds too emphatic but my nerves are getting a little frayed with this whole OHS thing. I hope you all will forgive the rant.
Thanks
David
W
westie
fair go
fair go
.
fair go david, do you know the old saying "do not ask the question if you do not want to hear the awnser"
of course you are worried, even traumatised by your future surgery; all of us here have been on the same journey, we have been traumatised etc too and the memories do not simply turn off post the operation.
i would conceed we tend to be quite passionate in the advocacy of our opinions, but all of this is a very personal thing, "said from the heart".
you posed the question, we all did our best to awnser it in the most honest and genuine way possible. ok, like you, we may rave on a bit, but we are all here to help, get support and information and opinion.
all of us are worthy of respect; all our inputs are from the perspective of our actual experiences, "from the heart". we present our opinions; yes there are many duplications and restatements of advice, but perhaps the comments repeated ad nauseum reflect our collective experience and may have some value...... and should not be dismissed easily...
fair go
.
fair go david, do you know the old saying "do not ask the question if you do not want to hear the awnser"
of course you are worried, even traumatised by your future surgery; all of us here have been on the same journey, we have been traumatised etc too and the memories do not simply turn off post the operation.
i would conceed we tend to be quite passionate in the advocacy of our opinions, but all of this is a very personal thing, "said from the heart".
you posed the question, we all did our best to awnser it in the most honest and genuine way possible. ok, like you, we may rave on a bit, but we are all here to help, get support and information and opinion.
all of us are worthy of respect; all our inputs are from the perspective of our actual experiences, "from the heart". we present our opinions; yes there are many duplications and restatements of advice, but perhaps the comments repeated ad nauseum reflect our collective experience and may have some value...... and should not be dismissed easily...
Nupur
Well-known member
David, I can imagine how stressful it is right now to face this decision. I would probably drive myself and everyone crazy when my time comes to make the same decision. Being at peace with the decision you make must be hard right now. But either way you go, you are going to be fine and get a new lease on life. And as for what the future holds, well... just hope for the best. Wishing you all the best on this journey!
B
Bridgette
Gosh David, you are sounding a wee bit stressed - understandable of course -we've all been there mate
But as my fellow Kiwi, Westie, has pointed out, you did ask the questions and you did say you wanted as many answers as possible - go back and read your original post that started this thread....
No one is trying to persuade you either way re valve choice - heavens, we couldn't care less what valve you choose - all anyone who has responded to this thread has tried to do is present their experiences - as you asked
I think you are leaning towards and have chosen a tissue valve, and I applaud your decision - I'm sure we all do. I know you will do well and won't regret it at all.
In the meantime, let's remember that there are several other members that have made their decisions and are facing their operations shortly (eg Sheridan and Zipper Deb) - how about we close this thread and devote some time to thinking of them and wishing them well?
David, you will be fine - stay calm, I wish you all the best
But as my fellow Kiwi, Westie, has pointed out, you did ask the questions and you did say you wanted as many answers as possible - go back and read your original post that started this thread....
No one is trying to persuade you either way re valve choice - heavens, we couldn't care less what valve you choose - all anyone who has responded to this thread has tried to do is present their experiences - as you asked
I think you are leaning towards and have chosen a tissue valve, and I applaud your decision - I'm sure we all do. I know you will do well and won't regret it at all.
In the meantime, let's remember that there are several other members that have made their decisions and are facing their operations shortly (eg Sheridan and Zipper Deb) - how about we close this thread and devote some time to thinking of them and wishing them well?
David, you will be fine - stay calm, I wish you all the best
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