Osteoporosis, warfarin & vitamin K

[ar bee]

<<Coumadin neutralizes the Vitamin K that you ingest and the vitamin K that your body makes in the intestines. As a result, by definition those who take anticoagulants will always be deficient in Vitamin K because this Vitamin is "blocked" by anticoagulants.>>


i have a slightly different view: not ALL Vitamin K is blocked/removed/bound by Warfarin, otherwise all people on Warfarin would esentially bleed endlessly (ie no more blood clotting)!

regards
ar bee

 

[Blanche]

ar bee:
Many thanks for the clarification. I am sure that you are right. Coumadin does not negate 100% of the Vitamin K ingested or made in the intestines.
But it does seem to neutralize enough of the Vitamin K in one's system to cause a Vitamin K deficiency....which leads to loss of bone mass and the problems attending there to. I should also clarify that Vitamin K is not the only variable leading to osteoporosis, but it does seem an important one. The number of people in the USA who develop bone loss problems is considerable, and I would assume that a large number of these people do not take anticoagulants. For this, we can see that there are more factors in play here.

Kind regards,
Blanche

 

[Guest]

The reason that nobody has discussed this is that there is no definitive answer. Anything that you choose to do may help or it may harm. It would be nice if you could just sit down and think it through but you cannot. It is all speculation. In fact there is no proof that warfarin even causes osteoporosis. It appears that it might but then again that is just speculation. So you might as well worry about a metorite crashing through your roof.

 

[Mary]

I'm not on warafin but

I'm not on warafin but

a bone density scan two years ago revealed that I have osteopenia. I was very surprised because I have not gone through menopause and I have been physically active all my life.
I was prescribed Actonel and I can tolerate it. Just barely.
I have to stand upright for almost an hour to keep it from upsetting my esophagus/GI tract. I never knew about the necessity of Vitamin K in maintaining bone density, so I thank everyone for the information found on this thread.
I also need to raise my iron levels considerably before surgery. Will the same leafy green vegetables used for an iron source also supply Vitamin K? (Please excuse my ignorance of the subject).

 

[catwoman]

1 comment, and a question for Al

1 comment, and a question for Al

While waiting today for a rental car at the Denver airport, I was chatting with a friend of -- small world -- a co-worker who just happened to be on our flight from DFW to DEN.
The woman said her daughter-in-law had taken Fosamax for a couple of years, then stopped. I asked why. Pregnancy. Her DIL was only 28. WOW!

One question for Al:
Is HRT contraindicated in patients with MVP? I was just wondering. I had had to take contraceptives for gynecological problems for quite a few years, then had a total hysterectomy @ 34. Took Premarin for 2 years, then stopped. I've had friends on HRT develop pulmonary embolisms & DVTs and had to quit the HRT.
Just wondered what any of the pharmaceutical literature says about various forms of HRT with heart valve problems.
I'm sure that if you have a mechanical heart valve, no doctor in his/her right mind would Rx HRT.
Just wondering....

 

[Guest]

HRT seems to be a risk factor for a blood clot in the leg (which can move to the lungs) but I don't think that it is a risk for clotting the valve. It may also be a rish for heart attack or stroke - the evidence is changing so fast that I haven't kept up on this - but I know it is not a risk for ruining a valve.

 

[Guest]

An update on this thread

An update on this thread

There was an article published in the latest American Journal of Health-system Pharmacy about the role that vitamin K plays in bones and arterial calcification.

The authors say that the amount of vitamin K needed to prevent osteoporosis is significantly higher than most people take in from just eating. But exactly how much people should get daily has not been studied.

It has only been in the last 10 years that researchers have begun to realize that vitamin K plays a role in bones. My guess that the research funds have been a little slow in this area. The big grant makers would much more be associated with a cure for AIDS, or Hepatitis or curing famine in Africa than slowing the thinning of bones.

Still, as far as I know, there has been no research on the effects of warfarin on these non-clotting functions of vitamin K.

I e-mailed the author of the article to see if any more recent information that I have missed has come up. I'll keep you posted.

 

[sharon]

Osteoporosis, Vit K, Coumadin and HRT

Osteoporosis, Vit K, Coumadin and HRT

Hi Catwoman,

I also was concerned about my bone density because of the Vit K/coumadin problem. I had a bone density test taken a month before my aortic valve surgery and also 5 yrs after my surgery. I was very delighted to learn that my bone density was above average for a woman my age. I was told that it was closer to that of a 30 yr old than the 58 yr old that I was when I took the test the second time. Right after my surgery in '97 I went thru menopause. I took HRT - the natural kind you get from a formulating pharmacist and it never really affected my coumadin levels. I didn't want to take premarin because of all the side effects it caused and because horse's urine is not what I wanted for my body. I stopped the HRT after a few months and started using a cream that was wonderful and along with that I took a soy protein drink daily. I just recently had some new bone density test at the health food store - an ultra sound and it showed that my bone density was still that of a 30 yr old. Along with the vit D you should take magnesium with the calcium about 250mg of magnesium to 500mg of calcium. Whether lifestyle or genetics has anything to do with bone density I'm not sure. In my 40's I taught aerobics and have never really stopped exercising. Yoga may be good for you too - but you have to make sure that the instructor knows the modifications that you need to make for people with osteoporosis. That said I must tell you that my left foot is in a soft cast because I fell on my driveway a few weeks ago and broke it. HaHaHa - so much for bone density.

Sharon
St. Judes avr 4/97

 

[catwoman]

Al:

Will be interested in any additional info you can find. I'd like to pass the info onto my PCP, since he oversees my anticoagulation & Fosamax.

Sharon:

I am taking Fosamax & trying to take 500 mg calcium citrate w/ vitamin D & magnesium bid. I also drink nonfat milk -- try for 3 8-oz servings daily.
I am wondering how much my weight loss has affected my bone density. I was pretty skinny (120-130, 5' 7") for years. By the time I had my MVR, I was at 199 lbs, due to inactivity because of the failing valve & just eating whatever I wanted.
I have lost about 50 pounds and weigh myself every morning when at home. This a.m. I weighed 147 pounds, which is in range for my height.

Osteoporosis info does say thin women are more at risk. I know when I started on Weight Watchers' program that I was told it was very important to get 3 servings of milk daily to prevent bone loss during weight loss.

 

[pink.gingham]

I got osteopenia in my mid-20s from taking high doses of corticosteroids. I'm happy to say I gained back quite a bit of what I lost and I'm vegan! The milk thing is controversial re: whether it is an absorbable source of calcium. I gave up caffeine and chocolate (they leech calcium) and did a whole lot of weight bearing exercise. I really think the exercise is the most important thing. Also, get a bit of sun exposure every day, the vitamin D from the sun will help.


Strong Women Have Strong Bones
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0399526560/104-8783634-3687928?v=glance

CalciYum
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968350305/qid=1123158906/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-8783634-3687928?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Everyday Calcium Cookbook
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Item=978155263582&Catalog=Books&N=35+606173&Lang=en&Section=books&zxac=1

Good luck!

 

[Guest]

Viactiv is calcium in a chocolate candy.

 

[sharon]

osteoporosis, warfarin and Vit K

osteoporosis, warfarin and Vit K

Catwoman (Marsha)

Yes, I've heard that thin women are more prone to osteoporosis - but as Pink Gingham said weightbearing exercise can help build your bones and so can weight machines. She also mentioned getting some sun and that's good too.

Al

I heard when viactiv first came out that it has Vit K in it and not to take it if you were on coumadin. Am I mistaken?

Sharon
St Judes avr 4/97

 

[Guest]

I just checked their website and the calcium formulation does indeed have vitamin K in it.

My original meaning was that I doubted that chocolate interferes with calcium. That sounds like a health food salesperson's pitch for their store brand of high profit calcium.

 

[pink.gingham]

Yeah it's hard to know what the truth is. It was actually a nutritionist who urged me to give up chocolate and caffeine during my bone-building period. Whatever the truth is, the fact is that as a vegan who did quite a bit of exercise, I grew back bone density! I was really pleased with myself because I didn't want to take the osteo drugs and I proved that I didn't have to. Yayyyy!

 

[Guest]

For 5 years my clinic was next to the Cardiac Rehab and Physical Therapy gym. I am convinced that there is no replacement for exercise.