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ragez0r

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
3
Location
montreal, Canada
hi
i have had mechanical valve since age 12.. and been on coumadin since.. then recently my pharmacy swapped me over to something called taro warfarin.. but regardless... the point im trying to get to... my doctor said to never eat greens cuz something to do with vitamin K.. so i had to jump off my daily V8 habit.

so.. Id like to know if something called Noni juice (comes from Thailand i think) would interfere with my INR somehow ? i THINK its from the ginsing family of plants.. but dont quote me on it :)

thank you
 
Hi fellow Canuck

How long have you been on ACT for? Are you kidding us that you are avoiding greens? If so that is old school thinking. We have a saying here and it goes like this when it comes to ACT..... Dose the diet, do not diet the dose. Eat and drink what ever you want but be constant with your diet. When you change over your diet simply test more frequently and adjust your ACT accordingly.

The Noni juice from what I have read may effect the effectiveness of warfarin. Vit K may be introduced into the beverage as an additive.
 
Your Doctor was trained in the Stone Age of Anti-Coagulation and has NOT kept up with the latest developments and treatment protocols.

Studies have PROVEN that maintaining a "consistent" level of vitamin K in your diet actually results in a More Stable INR than trying to avoid vitamin K entirely.

Think of avoiding vitamin K as walking into a Dark Room.
Then think of turning on a light(i.e. eating something containing vitamin K). HUGE CHANGE.

Think of being in a room with a 50 watt light turned on (i.e. eating a consistent amount of Vitamin K daily).
Increase that to 100 watts (i.e. eat a Big Spinach Salad). Relatively SMALL CHANGE.

DUH !

MY definition of consuming a "consistent" amount of vitamin K is to eat a couple of servings of "green things" every day.
NO Measuring, NO Problem.

'AL Capshaw'
 
Hi ragez0r and welcome to the forums.

Didn't your doctor tell you that Taro warfarin is the generic drug to coumadin? It also might be a little cheaper to buy.

The only thing that might change is your dosage when taking Taro/warfarin.

Please don't change your eating habits. Continue to have your daily V8, it's what your body is used to and do eat your greens. There are minerals and other vitamins that our bodies need.

You see, vitamin K is the clotting agent in our blood, warfarin/coumadin removes most of the "K" in our bodies so there is less of a chance of a blood clot to form on the mechanical valve.

So remember: adjust the dosage, not the diet.
 
Freddie -- not exactly. But Vitamin K helps mediate the clotting effects, and the more Vitamin K you eat, the lower your INR will be. (The clotting mechanics are more complex than just stating that vitamin K causes clotting and warfarin undoes it -- but the basic statement that Vitamin K lowers INR and Warfarin raises it is pretty much all most people need to know about it).

Al's right -- entirely avoiding Vitamin K is NOT a good idea. In addition to making it easier to control INR if we take a consistent amount daily, Vitamin K provides other benefits to our bodies that we don't get without it.

Taro is one of the manufacturers of generic coumadin/warfarin. If I recall, Taro comes from Israel. The thing about generics is that they are supposed to have a biologically identical effect to that of the patented drug (Coumadin). You should be able to substitute the same dose of a generic for the Coumadin and have the same effect. Even if the generic is made in another country, it's probably not right to assume that the effects would be different.

In my case, I've used generics from a few different vendors. Because I had the convenience of a meter, and because I didn't initially trust the generics, I tested after switching and found that, in my case, the generics DID have an equivalent effect on my INR (in other words, it stayed about the same as it was with coumadin or generic from another manufacturer).

As far as cost -- in most States you can get generic warfarin for about $10 for 90 pills. (These prices are for purchases in the U.S. from some pharmacies that sell discount generic warfarin - I've been told that the prices in Canada may be higher. I sometimes buy generic warfarin from an Indian pharmacy that I use, and it's inexpensive and biologically identical to the generic I buy from my local pharmacy, according to my INR testing) The last time I bought coumadin, it was about a buck a pill. BIG difference. (In some states - like California, where I live - 5 mg generics are much more expensive because of some state requirements relating to doses that the state insurance covers -- if I didn't have another source of 5 mg warfarin, I would just buy the 10 mg and break them in half)
 
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Im not sure, however i do know that noni juice is amazing for health. It tastes TERRIBLE, like vomit to be exact.....but the heath benefits far outweigh the vile taste ;) I do wish that more valvers were in to alternative nutrition, as there just seems to be so little info around on herbal and superfood interactions.
 
hi
... my doctor said to never eat greens cuz something to do with vitamin K.. so i had to jump off my daily V8 habit.

thank you

VERY, VERY old school and outdated advice :confused2:. As has been posted, Taro is a manufacturer name of a generic Warfarin. Coumadin is the brand name of the original patented drug that is also Warfarin. In the USA, the generic Warfarin brands and Coumadin must have identical "active ingredients" although some of the "inactive ingredients" may differ. If you have been on a daily V8 habit with Coumadin, you should be OK with that same habit on Taro Warfarin. The V8 is providing your body with a daily shot of vitamins, including vit K, and if you stop the V8, I believe your INR will change regardless of being on coumadin or generic warfarin.

ps: Over the last decade I have been on 5mg Warfarin/day regardless of whether I have taken Coumadin or Taro or Barr Lab tablets and have experienced the same INR results.....AND the generics are a LOT cheaper than Coumadin.
 
hi
i have had mechanical valve since age 12.. and been on coumadin since.. then recently my pharmacy swapped me over to something called taro warfarin.. but regardless... the point im trying to get to... my doctor said to never eat greens cuz something to do with vitamin K.. so i had to jump off my daily V8 habit.

so.. Id like to know if something called Noni juice (comes from Thailand i think) would interfere with my INR somehow ? i THINK its from the ginsing family of plants.. but dont quote me on it :)

thank you
Hey Rage,
Don't worry about eating some greens, you just don't want to suddenly binge on the ones that have tons
of Vit K in them, like spinach or kale....because your INR may drop a bit.
I eat broccoli and asparagus and romaine lettuce a few times a week along with carrots, corn, cabbage, etc. and I
have a rock steady INR.
If Noni juice interests you, how about trying a small glass with your lunch each day and then check your INR
in a few days?
When was your surgery? .... mine was in Montreal too.
 
thank you all for the advice... im sorry but i neglected to mention that the advice was given to me 18 years ago at the time of my heart operation.
A little known fact.. one of Canadas food laws is that almost every product imported from USA to Canada.. have to have a higher amount of vitamin K
feel free to compare slimfast from canada and slimfast from usa as an example. So I assume that i have a regular intake of Vitamin K wether i like it or not

however.. my main concern for this thread is if i can ingest Noni Juice on a daily basis...

thank you again
 
It's probably worth the trouble to contact the manufacturer of the Noni and ask if they have Vitamin breakdown
info available.
Some people have had INR reactions to LARGE amounts of cranberry juice, but most people just
have a small glass without trouble.
My husband is trying goji berries and I am just sampling small amounts until I know more.
 
my source would be my father shipping it to me from Thailand .. I could ask him to ask the manufacturer but.. i dont think they will really know.. i hate to assume these things about other countries but its gotten me this far :)

by the way.. i was operated on in Montreal General Hospital by Dr Kratz from St-Justine Hospital for whoever asked :)
 
Going back to earlier advice from others -- be consistent. If you've got a meter, test a bit more often than usual, until you have a sense of any changes in INR that Noni Juice may be responsible for. Then, dose the diet (or have a doctor or clinic assist you with this).
 
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