Low intensity training is working

[BillCobit]

Mark and Bill, how did you determine your race pace? Is it scientific, or art? Perceived effort? Heart rate? For some reason, by training book left that chapter out! Thanks.

Tom, my approach is homegrown. If it's consistent w/ any recommended guidelines, it's purely coincidence. But w/ that disclaimer:

I try to avoid shortness of breath while swimming, and breathe on every stroke. Swimming is easy for me - I used to be a successful competitive swimmer in my youth, so I still have my form, if not my engine. I always manage to land solidly in the mid-pack or higher w/o much effort. I always want to make sure I'm not out of breath before I jump on the bike.

I keep my HR about 140-150 on the bike in an Oly distance or shorter. That's vigorous riding for me, but I can sustain that for 25 miles without fading at the end. On a flat course on a calm day, that's a 17+ mph pace for me. If I spend too much time above 150, my HR gets too high on the run.

Running is my downfall. By the time I'm off the bike, running a 10 - 10+ minute pace raises my HR to about 160-165, and that translates to significant perceived effort for me. That's about 10 bpm higher than if I run a 10K that isn't preceded by swimming and biking. I can tolerate that for about 10K, and then I'm done. 170 is very uncomfortable for me (and also close to my theoretical max of 220-age). Yesterday, I was in the high 160's while barely moving. I decided to walk and let my HR drop, but I was only dropping to 150 while walking. I'd worry that there was something wrong with me if I hadn't had such a good 6 mile training run earlier in the week. I'll just write yesterday off as a bad day.

My post-surg resting HR has remained stubbornly high (78-80). Maybe that baseline has something to do with why I have trouble controlling my HR on the high end.

The bad day at the race is already paying benefits - I'm committed to a good training run first thing tomorrow morning!

 

[Adam T]

Trial and Error

Trial and Error

Hi guys. I'm only two weeks post-op, so no training for me yet. That is unless you count all the walking. I do enjoy reading your posts every day. It gives me something to look forward to and something to shoot for.

Anyway, Tommy, this is how I determined my race pace for a sprint triathlon. I run a series of sprints evey year that are of similar distance to the one you are entered in (1/3 mi S, 13 mi B, 3.1 mi R) It is somewhat based on heart rate and more based on what works (and what has not worked) for me.

I can't see my heart rate during the swim, so I try to take it VERY easy. I'm always going faster than I think, especially at the beginning because of all the adrenaline. I wore myself out on the swim a few times before I realized this. I just try to keep it steady and keep it comfortable. This is the most important and difficult part of the race for me to pace well. If I mess up the swim, I blow the whole thing.

My best event is the bike, so I have to hold back here a little as well. I use my heart rate monitor as a "tachometer" to keep my enthusiasm in check. I try to keep my HR under 150 because it seems that once I get past that, the lactic acid starts building up and I'll blow the run. A HR under 150 is (was) fairly comfortable for me, but it is a little more percieved effort than what i put into the swim.

On the run, the first 1/2 mile or so, I just try to get my running legs back and working right, so I'm slow here. After that I try to keep my HR under 160. This is where I start getting a little uncomfortable but I know I can hold the pace for a while. The last 1/2 mile I take my eyes off my watch and go as hard as I can. Hopefully I don't get passed by any 12 year olds or anyone that looks like my grandma.

It took me several seasons to figure all that out, and I'm sure there are some better ways but this is what seems to work for me and it's easy to implement on race day. Once I got my splits from race day I based my training on that race pace.

I hope that gives you some ideas. I have no idea how any of this will work for me next year. I think I'll have to start from scratch and just see what I can do. Right now I'm just glad to be back on my old running routes even though I'm just walking. My running buddies (two Weimeraners) can't figure why they can't go yet, but they pull too much for me to safely handle them right now.

In the mean time, I'm closely following everyone else's training programs and I'm looking forward to comparing notes with y'all when I'm able. Good luck with the race and let us know how it goes.

Adam

 

[tommy]

Adam, and Bill, your replies seem pretty consistent, and right where I was thinking. As a newbie to the sport, I have little experience, so your input is very helpful. Your information and caring are very helpful for the strategy as well as the inspiration and motivation.

Adam, congratulations on successful surgery. You have a lot to look forward to. I've noticed a common pattern in here that those that are physically fit recover from surgery much quicker than those of us that weren't. That doesn't mean that you can push too hard too soon, but you should progress very well.

Swam yesterday 1250 yards. Elbow started to ache approaching 1200 yards. The orthopedist said that a little aching is okay, but signals my current limit. Race is only 500 yards, so the elbow is not an issue.

 

[MarkU]

Mark and Bill, how did you determine your race pace? Is it scientific, or art? Perceived effort? Heart rate? For some reason, by training book left that chapter out! Thanks.

However I deterrmined it, it was too slow

Seriously, I deliberately did my bike leg at 90 cadence, employing the strategy that keeping my cadence high would help save my legs for the run. The (stupid) key mistake I made was ignoring both my heart rate and my perceived exertion level. I rode in too low of a gear and only averaged a HR of 134, when I most always train closer to 140. Stupid, stupid me. Definitely left a lot on the table.

I set my heart rate monitor alarms for my zone 3 for the run: 144-150 (my lactic threshold is 157bpm) and that worked out okay.

I just basically ignored my perceived exertion level all day; it didn't really hit me that I hadn't pushed hard enough until I finished the race and realized that I felt good enough to go out and do it again! Not that I expected to pass out or anything crossing the finish line, but I really didn't go as fast as I could have.

I actually got to ask Joe Friel about how to determine race pace when I heard him speak earlier this year. Basically he said to target 10 beats below my lactic threshold or (157-10)=147. The key to that working however is actually doing it in your workouts for the duration of the event you are planning to do.

Mark

 

[tommy]

I actually got to ask Joe Friel about how to determine race pace when I heard him speak earlier this year. Basically he said to target 10 beats below my lactic threshold or (157-10)=147. The key to that working however is actually doing it in your workouts for the duration of the event you are planning to do.

Thanks, Mark. I don't know my lactic threshold, but the 140-150 range sounds appropriate at this point for me. I won't have many workouts at distance in the 140-150 range. I was there prior to the elbow fracture, except that the bike is 17 miles not 12.

I'd like to opt for having some gas in my tank at the end, or at least err in that direction for a change. My history is to used perceived exertion, but I've kidded myself a bit and gone too hard. I typically run out of gas with 25% left to go. Sounds like on average, you and I would do great!

With the heart rate monitor, there will be no kidding myself. I'll know the numbers. If I screw up in one direction or the other, I'll learn from it. I hope to do three tri's this season, this being my first. I'll leave some room for improvement. There'll be time for more specific training in zones prior to #2 and #3.

 

[tommy]

Good brick workout Saturday.
Bike 16.5 miles 73% HR 13.6 MPH
Run 3 miles at 76% HR 12:12 pace.
Hot 80-85 degrees.

Better run this morning.
Swam 250 yards at fast pace (for me) 5 minutes.
Alternated run/walk for 2 miles then ran a 5k.
Weather was cool 70 degrees.

Here are the 5k numbers:
Mile 1 66% HR 11:39 pace
Mile 2 66% HR 11:34 pace
Mile 3 73% HR 10:43 pace
Bonus 1/10th mile 85% HR 7:53 pace Woo hoo!

Peaked at 91% HR.
Overall pace 11:15.
3 minute recovery -40 BPM.

 

[Adam T]

Great job Tommy. Sounds like you're ready for the Denton Disco! All I can say is I'm incredibly envious.

My bike is collecting dust and my running buddies, Maverick and Goose, (my Weimeraners) say they feel the need... the need for speed. I think they're getting as impatient as I am to get back to our runs.

Just curious, are you riding a tri-bike or a regular road bike? (or a mountain bike for that matter) At shorter distances I wonder if the aerobars offer much advantage. The course for our sprint tri series has a lot of turns and can be a little crowded so I've never bothered with aerobars.

 

[tommy]

Adam, yes I feel ready. I have a hybrid bike with wide hybrid tires - smooth in the middle and knobby on the outside. Motobecane about $300. My wife has a matching bike and we ride together often. The bikes work well on trails and roads. It's a vast improvement over my $100 Target bike.

I ride for fun an fitness. The training details are part of the fun. Aero bars scare me. I'm sure that I'm losing time to the wind, but it's okay with me.

As I get closer to this event, I am raising the seat and lowering the handle bars. This gets my back closer to parallel to the road and provides more power.

After Denton Disco, I'll investigate different seats.

 

[mtkayak]

Let me start off by saying how impressed and inspired I am by each and every one of you. Great Job on your fitness I have some questions regarding jogging. I have been jogging about 2 years now. I run the occassional 5 k here and there. I'm not much of a jogger or runner for that matter but I do it to keep in shape. Well, recently after my surgery I started taking it a little more seriously. I've started watching the numbers a lot more, just recently bought a heart rate monitor watch.

At the moment, I jog on the treadmill in the gym, In Atlanta this time of year it's simple too hot to run during the day unless it's early morning or late evenings. We are talking mid 90's. Anyway, when you refer to the lactic threshold I assume you are talking about Maximum Beat Per Minute? I've determined my MBPM to be 185 and I working out in the 70-80% range at 130-147 BPM. at that pace I'm doing 4.25 miles in an hour. After about 30 minutes my HR usually stays up around 145 then I slow it down. I did an 11 minute mile the other day. In order to increase my milage per hour in the aerobic stage is there any breathing techniques or ways to try and lower my heart rate? Or do I simple keep working out in that range till my heart lowers itself due to an increased fitness level?

My recovery rate is around 20 - 30 beats the first minute. It usually drops below 100 after 2 -3 minutes. My resting heart rate is a little high (to me) in the lower 80's. Has been that way since surgery. It seems to be dropping in the high 70's now though. I would like to get it to the 60's at least.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[mtkayak]

Sorry, scratch that. My resting heart rate is mid 60's. I would like to get down below 60.

 

[tommy]

Mike,

Your numbers look real good to me.
Resting heart rate 60's.
3 minute recovery rate under 100.
Numbers are dropping.

Keep up the good work.

I know what you mean about heat. My pace, performance, and recovery suffer greatly from heat. Lately, I've tried to schedule my runs for early mornings on days that the lawn sprinklers are running. It helps cool me down afterwards as well. Run right through the water. I'm soaking wet anyway.

My understanding is that the lactic threshold rate is below the maximum. It's named in terms of body chemistry and can be determined individually. It's an advanced course for me in my learning. It's probably about 80% of MHR.

The maximum heart rate calculations may also be off a bit and can vary with the individual.

I notice that my resting heart rate can vary a lot depending on intensity of exercise the day before and food intake the night before. I've read where higher RHR can be a sign of over training. I am typically around 50-52, but can range down to 48 (woo hoo!) and up to over 60 if I worked hard and pigged out the day before.

I use the Karvonen method of determining % heart rate.
MHR max is 174.
RHR low 50's.
% are taken between the two instead of from the max.
So with RHR at say 54, 50% is 114 BPM.
60% = 126

If I were to use the common scale:
MHR = 169.
50% = 85
60% = 101
This seems too low for me, especially on the bicycle.

You asked about breathing. I've had a very simplistic rhythm that I got into the habit of using when I started running a few years ago.
1 breath every 4 strides - LRLR - I can go forever if my legs hold out.
1 breath every 3 strides - faster pace, but will burn up at some point.
1 breath every 2 strides - faster pace shorter runs
1 breath every stride - the finish line is in site.
I haven't tried to correlate breathing rhythms with heart rate, but suspect a correlation to be there. When I ran marathon distance, I watched the pace improve for each ratio, especially the 1:4 that I trained in most. Now I use the heart monitor and look forward to some more history to see a trend like that.

 

[Adam T]

What are you doing to get ready the week before your race, Tommy? Are you going to taper off at all?

 

[tommy]

Yes, tapering starts tomorrow.

I had a hard simulation day yesterday.
500 yard swim ave HR 134
13.2 mile bike ave HR 142
2 mile run ave HR 146
Last mile was under 10 minutes.
Peak HR 171 "sprint to the finish line".
3 minute recovery 57 to 114.
Other than the final sprint, I felt like I had some reserves.

Today was a 5 mile recovery run/walk - very slow pace.

Next few days will include a few short bursts, walking, stretching, transition practice, gear checking, rest, and a leisurely bike ride with my wife.

 

[Adam T]

Sounds like you're ready. Any problems with the elbow?

Make sure you give us an update when you get home. Those of us who are newbies are living vicariously through you.

Good luck. Smoke it!

 

[BillCobit]

Good luck this weekend, Tom. I hope you have a great race.

I am going to try back to back (sat & sun) sprints this weekend. I've never done that before, so it will be interesting to see how well/poorly that goes. It'll be fun nevertheless. Just hoping for reasonable temps.

 

[mntbiker]

Good luck to both of you this weekend, and be sure to post race reports so we can all oohh and aahh.

 

[tommy]

Good luck. IronBill.

 

[mtkayak]

Hope you guys had a great weekend! Thanks for the info Tommy. I have started to use the breathing technique and it seems to work pretty well so far. I take 1 breath every 4 seconds instead of strides just because it's hard for me count the strides Hopefully, I can start to take a little control of my heart rate.

The formula I used to find my MHR was 210-(.7 x Age). I'm not sure what formula it is but I found it in the manual that came with my Heart Rate Monitor watch. I've seen simliar formulas to this one.

 

[BillCobit]

Good luck to both of you this weekend, and be sure to post race reports so we can all oohh and aahh.

Thanks, David.

Tom, how about you provide the race report for "oohh and aahh," and I'll take care of the one for "eeww and uugh?"

 

[tommy]

LOL....I don't know about "oohh and aahh", but I'll post a report. I'm getting pretty pumped. This is only my second one of these. Bill, looks like we need 2 reports from you.