Lovenox or not?

Valve Replacement Forums

Help Support Valve Replacement Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
A

alicia

Next month I will be having abdominal surgery to remove my ovaries and cysts that have been developing since I've been on Coumadin. My cardiologist said that he would approve me to use Lovenox injections for a week prior to surgery so I wont have to go in 3 days before surgery as I did in August 2003 for an oopherectomy. My GYN/ONC says she is not sure about using the Lovenox because theres no FDA approvial with use for mechanical mitral valves. What are your thoughts? I hated last time sitting in the hospital for 3 days before and 3 days after the surgery to be on a Heparin drip. I want to do the safe thing. My cardiologist is giving me the OK but he admits theres not very much literature out there on use with mechanical mitral valves. Please help me as this is troubling me. Thanks...

Alicia
 
Here are a few articles about it - I was given lovenox for a few days once when my INR was around 1.8

From:
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/isth2003/abstract.asp?id=10045

From:
http://www.vapbm.org/criteria/enoxaparincriteria.pdf

From:
http://pharmacy.rutgers.edu/pharm_pract/470/2003.10.29-Article.pdf

In general about lovenox - not specifically about heart valves articles-

From:
http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1D059A.htm
>>>>
DG DISPATCH - AAN: Subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin safe and cost-effective

By Richard Robinson
Special to DG News

SAN DIEGO, CA -- May 5, 2000 -- Use of subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin instead of intravenous unfractionated heparin during transition to oral anticoagulant therapy can save thousands of dollars per patient, according to new research.

The findings from the study, "Subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin versus intravenous unfractionated heparin in patients converting to long-term anticoagulation: Is it cost effective?" were presented Thursday (May 4) at the 52nd Annual Meeting of the American Academy of Neurology, held in San Diego, CA.

David Tong, MD, and colleagues at the Stanford Stroke Center, in Palo Alto, CA, compared the safety and cost of these two treatments in patients with cerebrovascular disease who required heparin prior to a switch to oral anticoagulant therapy.

Patients were otherwise medically stable, and except for the need for intravenous anticoagulant therapy, did not require hospitalization.

Comparison of charts for 56 patients receiving intravenous unfractionated heparin and 39 patients receiving subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin showed that there was no difference in the bleeding rates or other complications between the two treatments.

Cost analysis showed the average per-patient cost for intravenous unfractionated heparin was $613 per day, compared to $40 per day for subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin.

"Thus, for a five-day in-patient hospitalization, the cost savings associated with subcutaneous low molecular weight heparin versus intravenous unfractionated heparin was at least $2865 per patient, without any increase in morbidity or complications," said Dr. Tong.

An addition benefit, he noted, is that the subcutaneous injections could be given by a visiting nurse, a caregiver, or even the patients themselves, with proper training.
>>>>

From:

>>>>
DG DISPATCH - ASH: Enoxaparin Beneficial In Patients With Increased Thromboembolic Risk

By Angela Lorio
Special to DG News
NEW ORLEANS, LA -- December 7, 1999 -- Enoxaparin has been found to be a better treatment than heparin for medical patients at increased-to-high risk of blood clots, according to the results of a recent study.


Investigators have concluded that the advantage of enoxaparin over unfractionated heparin (UFH) seems to increase with higher levels of thrombotic risk. In terms of safety, there were fewer adverse events and fewer bleeding episodes associated with enoxaparin, announced lead investigator Franz-Job Harenberg, MD, Head of the Department of Hemostaseology and Professor of Internal Medicine at the University of Mannheim/Heidelberg, in Mannheim, Germany.

The study, ?Enoxaparin Is Superior To Unfractionated Heparin In The Prevention Of Thromboembolic Events In Medical Patients At Increased Thromboembolic Risk,? was presented at the 41st Annual Meeting of American Society of Hematology being held in New Orleans, LA, December 3rd through 7th.

The low molecular-weight heparin, enoxaparin, has been associated with a significant reduction in the incidence of thromboembolic events. Questions remained, however, about its efficacy in non-surgical patients at increased-to-high risk, the investigators noted.

German investigators analyzed data from patients with severe respiratory disease, severe heart failure and acute ischemic stroke. The investigators randomized 439 patients to receive either 40 mg enoxaparin qd and 439 patients to receive 5000 IU unfractionated heparin (UFH) tid. Only 630 patients - 327 from enoxaparin group and 303 from the UFH group - were eligible for efficacy analysis. The main reason for study exclusion was because venography could either not be evaluated or performed.

Results of the study showed that thromboembolic events with subsequent death occurred in 15.6 percent of the patients in the enoxaparin group compared with 22.1 percent in the UFH group. The risk of developing a blood clot was highest among patients with acute ischemic stroke, followed by patients with severe heart failure and severe respiratory disease.

Bleeding events occurred in eight patients in the enoxaparin group as compared to 14 patients in the UFH group. These events were characterized as major in only two enoxaparin patients and one UFH patient. Patients treated with enoxaparin also experienced fewer adverse effects as compared to UFH (9.1 percent versus 196 percent; P<0.001).
>>>>
 
Hi Alicia. I just went through the exact situation. I doubled over in pain at work with abdominal pain and extreme nausea. It turns out that I had large cysts in the fallopian tube and on my ovaries, ended up in the hospital for 5 days. They ended up doing surgery several weeks later. They were worried about my INR. My gyn. taught me how to give myself the lovenox shots and I did so several days before the surgery. Thank goodness for insurance, they paid the bulk of the expense which was quite a lot!!!! They weren't too bad and I didn't bruise at all. There's just something unsettling about giving yourself shots in the stomach. I am about 5 weeks out of surgery and I feel fine now. I did have some pain due to blleding right after but I am fine now. What should of been a simple laperoscopy was complicated by the coumadin. I too live in NC so if you have any questiions, just ask!
 
Hi Alicia,

I too have a mechanical mitral valve and was put on Lovenox five or six days ago. They held one dose when I had a colonoscopy which made me very nervous as the problem I was in for was a result of a thrombus (clot).

I came home today and am still on the injections twice a day until my INR is over 2.5. If it wasn't for home testing and Lovenox I know I would still be in the hospital.

Jim, those are very good articles...thanks!

Whalepassion, I'm a North Carolinia girl too.....maybe there is a sale on Lovenox around here, what do you think?:)
 
It is not approved but there is no longer a prohibition.

We know that people with who have mechanical valves and do not take warfarin for a period of time are at risk for a clot.

We know that Lovenox MAY lower the risk for a clot.

Which group do you want to be in?

There people who refuse to wear seat belts in cars because they question the evidence that they save ives.
 
Have you looked into taking Heparin injections instead of Lovenox? I did Heparin injections for 4 months about a year ago. They were 3 times a day with testing a little more frequent then the Coumadin requires, but other than that, it went well.

Monica
 
The trouble is that there is no evidence that heparin does any good either. It is just that it is so old and cheap that nobody worries about prescribing it. Many doctors were trained using heparin and they think that there must be evidence but there is not. Besides there are no competing company's sales reps running around pointing out that there is no evidence like they do with the newer, more profitable drugs. The "if we can't have the business then we are going to keep you from getting it either" attitude.
 
Al - I was wondering if your comments about heparin's effectiveness apply to the heparin shots or to the heparin IV drip as well?
 
Both.

Nobody has ever (and never will) do a double-blind, randomized, prospective, placebo-controlled study on people with valves using heparin or not using heparin. This is the gold-standard of proof. It would be completely unethical to assign someone to the placebo group to see how long it took to wreck the valve.

There are lesser types of evidence that show it works, but these are not considered "proof". Uncontrolled studies, retrospective studies, case reports ("I saw this happen when I did this") are all less reliable.

So, when a doctor does not want to do something, they say, "there is no evidence..."

When your insurance company does not want to approve something, they say, "there is no eviodence..."

When somebody does not want to use a seat belt, they say, "there is no evidence..."

It is a very safe way of avoiding doing something because there will never be absolute proof. How many people would you have to kill in test crashes to prove whether or not seat belts work?

My opinion about Lovenox is that it rarely causes serious bleeding when used as bridge therapy. Why not go with the "it probably won't hurt and probably will help" theory?

Last year, there was a statement in the Lovenox package insert stating that it was not to be used in people with mechanical heart valves. That is probably why mmcbroom got heparin shots. Her doctor was using the "it probably won't hurt..." theory. Now the FDA has come to its senses and removed the prohibition on Lovenox. Those of you who on the board last year recall that it was based on two women in Africa who had mechanical valves and were pregnant. The dose of Lovenox is weight-related but they did not have their dose adjusted as they gained weight. This was a case of the FDA bureaucrats using the "I saw this happen" as absolute proof that every one in the US with a mechanical valve had to be protected from the menace of Lovenox.
 
Thanks Al. I honestly didn't know why that statement was on Lovenox. But now that I do, I won't be as using one form of injectible over the other. Just think 2 women in Africa who didn't take care of themselves making this happen.
 
I have been on and off Lovenox shots since surgery because of low INR. I don't like it much, but if it was a choice between staying in the hospital for days and doing the shots, I would definately do the shots. Your insurance company will love you for it. It sounds grim that they say you are giving the shots in the stomach, but really it's in a pinch of fat at your waist. I found it less painful if I held the pinch a little looser instead of with a death grip. I did bruise and got a little sore there.

Marcia
MVR 12/9/03
 
It was worse than two women who did not take care of themselves. Either the study called for no dose adjustment or their doctors failed to adjust. Whichever, it was caused by doctors.

My patients call the aftermath of Lovenox injections eggplant belly because of the color that you turn. Do not squirt any of the Lovenox out of the syringe -- getting it on the outside of the needle makes the breathing worse. The tiny bit of Nitrogen in the syringe will not hurt you when it is injected. If you are not using syringes from the original manufacturer but filled by a pharmacy the bruising can be worse because of the Lovenox on the needle.
 
Thanks Al for your valuable advise and all others for their concern. I have given myself Lovenox shots before so I do know how it works, I just want to be safe. You all know Im a Murphys law patient, anything that can go wrong will LOL. Im swaying toward the shots as opposed to the extra hospital stay. What the heck. its more time I can stay out of the dreaded hospital.
Thanks again.

Alicia (Ali)
:rolleyes:
 
Lovenox

Lovenox

The only advice I can give to anyone using Lovenox is if you experience any type of pain do not ignore it.

I had used Lovenox many a times as my INR was so erratic and I would find myself in the ones. Most of the time I had no problem with the Lovenox and used it as directed by my doctor. One evening I started with pain in my knee and by the next morning it involved my foot. I knew I hadn't injured myself so I called my doctor (this was on a Sunday). Covering MD told me to wait until Monday. By the time I woke up I couldn't even walk as the pain was also in my hip. My diagnosis: I was bleeding in my hip from the Lovenox.

I also wonder if Lovenox was somehow responsible for my second subdural. The week before I was diagnosed (which my INR was in range when I had my bleed), I had been on Lovenox for a low INR. No proof, but I wonder how the heck I managed a bleed with an in range INR?

So, I think that the average person is not going to have any problems with injecting Lovenox as bridge therapy, but listen to your body if you do encounter anything abnormal.

After taking Coumadin for 21 years I have to say, I don't miss it one bit................:D :D
 
Aw come on Gisele, this forum has been seriously lacking in the number of posts since you stopped warfarin. We miss you even if you don't miss it!

Seriously, I'm glad that you are doing so well.

There is no denying that Lovenox may have been associated with your troubles, but there are lots of people who have subdural bleeds that have never taken warfarin or Lovenox.

Her advice is well taken though, in spite of my joking. If you think that you are having a problem with warfarin or Lovenox - do not take wait until (whenever) for an answer get to an ER.

I was wondering too, if your migraines have lessened since the last surgery and medication changes.
 
Gisele-

Joe and I are also very leary about using Lovenox. He had Lovenox for bridge therapy going into a gallbladder operation, He almost bled to death post surgery and had to have a second operation to try to stanch the bleed. It took 33 units of blood products and vitamin K shots and witholding Coumadin for over a week to get him stabilized. He was sent home after about 2 weeks on the hospital in systemic shock, and it took almost a year for him to recover.

Even if it eventually gets complete approval from the FDA, Joe will probably never agree to ever use it again.
 
Hey Al..........

Hey Al..........

Miss me? I am doing fine, thanks. If anyone had all kinds of problems ranging from one end to the other with any anticoagulation............it seemed to be me. Aren't you glad there aren't too many patients like me around?

All kidding aside, I think that Lovenox is so useful for so many patients, but like Joe I think that some patients might be better off avoiding it. The only warning is to be aware of any symptoms you may experience.

As far as my migraines are concerned, I haven't had one since my bleed. I did have a really bad headache in ICU the day after my valve was inplanted and I was very concerned as it mimicked the pain of my bleeds, however with a negative CT scan the doctors felt it was due to all the narcotics and stopped my morphine. It worked just fine and my headache went away the following day. I am on a daily dose of Toprol XL in order to prevent the mirgraines and that seems to work just fine.

Nancy, how is Joe doing with his Bjork Shiley? You will have to tell him that my new valve is so quiet I can't stand it! LOL
 
The Bjork-Shiley is still chugging along. He wouldn't know what to do without his "noisemakers". I'll suggest to him that he should have another surgery to get a quieter valve.

Let's see what he says, but I'd better be standing a few feet away.:D :D :D
 
Gizelle abd Nancy, You both have very good points about the precautions with the Lovenox. is it worth 6 extra days in the hospital for Heparin drip and having blood drawn every 6 hours? I would much rather the extra time in the hospital and not take the chance that I bleed heavily after the laparotomy. Its already a very bloody surgery. Well I have until Feb 16th when I get my next ultrasound to make that decission IF surgery must be done. Im sure the cyst has not gone away as she had hoped. Nothing ever goes easy for me and my health. I never knew I would have so many bleeding problems from taking Coumadin! Still confused..

Alicia

:confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:
 
Can we do a poll to see if you had to have surgery would you opt for Lovenox or extended hospital stay? Help Ross...

Alicia
 
Back
Top