Illegals in the U S A

[Missy]

Our family has been watching the news lately to see how Arizona progresses with their new illegal enforcement.

We are quite anxious as we live in the southwest in NM and Az.

I am not a political person normally. I don't believe in getting to caught up in those things but this one does effect us so we really are concerned.

I wondered if anyone else on here has been put in the same situation. I know there are several from the southwest. Maybe other parts of the country have to deal with this also.

I am not trying to start a political discussion just some friendly talk.

 

[Ross]

Missy I'm afraid that even a question like this is politcal in nature. It tends to get some people hot under the collar. I'll leave this one go and see if it can be discussed in a civil manor, but no thread of this type has survived yet, so don't get upset if it gets deleted.

 

[Wise]

I'm staying out of this one!

 

[Cooker]

I'm staying out of this one!

Mí también ... LOL

 

[skeptic49]

Likewise...not a discussion I want to have here.

 

[nngbwh]

Adios ...........

 

[WilliamJE]

I'll just say the United States immigration system is busted. From the millions of illegal aliens, to United States citizens getting deported, to people born in the United States held by ICE for over a year, to legal immigrants getting shafted. It's a huge mess.

BTW my wife Leonita is a naturalized United States citizen. In addition both her sister and mother also immigrated to this country and I had a brother-in-law(Cruise ship musician) deported. I got practical experience dealing with immigration.

 

[Missy]

My intentions were good as the local officials want opinions and ideas. Any way we look at this someone gets hurt and there must be a way to fix it so that everyone gets a little bit of a break.
I just wanted a little friendly feedback.... Thanks everyone.
BTW, William, I am sorry that you have had trouble but there are people trying to fix things. I realize it is busted but hopefully it will work out. Good luck to you and your family!!
My family has both sides of it among us. We have a family member who is a green card holder and we have two family members deported and nephew has to go back and forth to Juarez to see his wife. We have several ranchers and farmers in the family that live right here on the border and we pack guns to go outside.
So I don't think this is just an issue for one radical side to the other exteme radical side to decide. The bad people don't have anything to do with how good people should be handled. There are famillies like mine that want the very best for everyone that has good intentions.
So I just wanted to see how how all these good people on here felt as I really value everyones' opinion.

 

[Superbob]

I don't doubt your good intentions, Missy.

Is Pericles in the house? We need a Pericles to solve this very thorny problem, and unfortunately I don't see one on the scene.

It is hard for me to envision mass deportations. On the other hand, blanket amnesty seems unwise and unfair to those who have followed the rules in seeking U.S. citizenship. Is there some middle way that can satisfy the majority of people and be fair? I am not wise enough to know that answer. As I say, we need a Pericles.

 

[njean]

This is probably off your original topic Missy but here goes......

You are NOT alone in the growing fear & frustration that all of us are feeling!

The growing violence by the drug cartels on the other side of the border, is becoming such that more & more people from over there are coming in. Some of them are picked up in the morning & by night-time, they are back! And it's only going to get worse! I don't know what the solution is & I don't think anyone else does either!

I remember when relatives from other parts of the country came & visited, the first place everyone wanted to go was Juarez! Well not no more....NOT unless you want to commit suicide!

I know that Jan Brewer, AZ's governor, is getting a lot of critcism for passing this Immigration Enforcement Bill, from the president on down, but you have to admire the guts this lady has to try to bring some order to an out of control situation! It's more than what others are doing!

 

[Missy]

Thanks, I suppose that if I had to make the decision, I would stop them at the border and uphold the law. That would protect the families along the border. Then I suppose I would try to weed through the ones that are already here and work with them. And then no more unless they are legal. I do have to say that I feel sorry for those people that are just needing a better place. The drug cartels and mules and hoodlems have to be stopped.

Our family has just been advising the nephew and his wife that they must bear with it until they can do better. If they play by the rules she will someday get back to here. Although she wasn't really illegal. She was one of the ones that came over and hired the lawyer in El Paso and he just took their money and kept it and never did anything.

Jean you may remember that one!!!

Maybe we might have to put up with a little racial profiling to protect some of us.

It is really a hard one .....

 

[Luana]

Superbob, I have a cousin named Pericles. I don't know if he can solve the problem though.

And yes, with a name like that all our grandparents were immigrants from Greece.
Luana

 

[Ross]

I think the Arizona governor is spot on and has done the right thing. I'd like to see Texas follow suit. I'm in Ohio and we are surrounded with Mexican nationals, most of which are here illegally. They work in Mexican restaurants, saving the money to send back home, which is worth a lot more in Mexico then it is here.

 

[njean]

I think the Arizona governor is spot on and has done the right thing. I'd like to see Texas follow suit. I'm in Ohio and we are surrounded with Mexican nationals, most of which are here illegally. They work in Mexican restaurants, saving the money to send back home, which is worth a lot more in Mexico then it is here.

I'm with you Ross......I wish every state would do what this Governor had the cajones to do!!!

 

[wcasey5]

I think its funny that there are low paying jobs available that americans won't do, but no legal way to fill them with people from other countries. The only legal temporary employment visa you can get is with agriculture.

For family sponsered visas, currently, if you are from mexico and are a citizen, and you are trying to get an unmarried son or daughter in the country, the U.S. immigration is working on application filed before 15 october 1992. The most recent date is spouses and children of perminent residents, 1 June 2006, that is across the board (any country). This means that the person would have to have gotten their green card before this date, and had their family apply before June 1 2006. This date moves at a glacial pace, so basically these peoples spouses and children have been waiting 4 years since they applied, and probably much longer than that (another 5 years) to get in the country legally. The fees for this are a huge barrier as well. Over $1000 to apply for a green card, another $400-$500 to see the civil surgeon and get a physical, all to have you wait for years.

For employment based visas, the dates range from 2001 to 2005. So if you applied before those dates, then they will start to process your application.

This is one problem, far be it for me to criticize the U.S. and its immigration policy, but this was not how it was presented to me when I moved here. So there is one problem.

You also have businesses who employ these people, and good americans who do not want to pay more to have their lawn mowed or for restaurant food, so the employers go for the cheapest labor to keep the price down. They are also spending money lobbying the government to keep the rules the same.

The I.R.S., immigration, department of labor, social security, and the department of state are alll involved in processing an immigrant. They don't talk to one an other or co-ordinate information. I don't understand why, perhaps an american can ellaborate on the thinking here. Anytime I speak with a neghbor or friend about this, they don't want them to communicate, they think its a bad idea.

Lastly, my wife was a police officer in Canada. She arrested people and when they couldn't produce I.D., she was on the computer looking them up on the interpol database and they got their ass shipped out of the country. Or they were confined to the ship they were in port on. She certainly didn't randomly ask people for their papers, which I think is oppressive. And if you were employing someone, they had to check out with the government database, or if you went to the doctor, you got found out.

I don't understand why the U.S. doesn't make the border guards do their job, or give them the resources to do it. Or crack down on companies that hire people illegally. Or fix their own internal problems to process applications in a timely manor. Until these things are fixed, you are going to get illegal people in this country, and a fence ain't keeping them out.

 

[Ross]

Thing is, we've got so many problems that need addressed and haven't been. I'm not sure anyone has any real answers other then to just outright get tough about everything.

 

[Missy]

We agree with what the governor of Az. is doing also just like Ross and Njean, even though we have a person in the family trying to get in. In the long run it will be easier for her as she is trying to get in legal. The only thing is that the problems wcasey5 mentioned and the others are all real problems and sometimes it is like no one wants to fix it.

I do know this... that some of the illegals coming across are not interested in anything except stealing and whatever they have to do. Some of them are running illegals and rest are packing dope (mules) so these are the ones that would not be an asset to have here so I suppose the answer is to stop them at the border. It is my understanding the National Guard does not have ammo and there haven't been that many guards brought in although we are seeing more law enforcement out. Some of our local border patrol say they are afraid of hurting one because of the proscecution several years of the the 3 that shot one. They served some time. I think they have been released but this kind of unfairness even happens to officers.

And it is dangerous here on the border. This is not a racial problem... they kill and rob from other hispanics, not just whites. The hispanics who don't live here are thinking this might be racial and take my word for it.... it isn't. We have lived on this border for years and co exist and are friends with hispanics U S and Mexico. But the people who have lived here for a long time do want to keep he wages up to preserve jobs. That is not racial. That is self preservation for everyone. Beyond that the main thing is safety for the U S citizens. And we are tired of packing guns to go outside.

In our town we run 4 extra school buses to bring in the children along both sides of the border in this county and we (the U S) pay for this educatin for the children from Palomas, Mexico so I think that speaks volumes for the advantages we are trying to give their children. New Mexico pays for special teachers for them. Several years ago they brought in teachers from Mexico. I don't know about this year. But I do know they have spanish speaking teachers for them. And special English classes. Also for the adults who want to learn English at the community college.

The other side of the coin... when you see the mexican women, children and mannerly men whose feet are bleeding and they are just worn out.... if your heart doesn't go out to them there is something wrong. I just wish they could do it the right way (legal) or that their own country wasn't so hard on them. We always give them food and water if there are children with them. And place food and water outside for the others if my husband is home. If he is not here I don't do anything unless they holler for me to call immigration and then I do. I am thinking about calling for every incident now. This crossing right where I live is slowing down as I have two state policemen and one sheriff's deputy live in the area. I think that has helped some. And the border patrol are hard at it.

The only thing we are all going to be there if we don't stop this in our own country. This is how Mexico got there. I don't want my grandchildren growing up with this fear.

I appeciate the responses on here and hope this works out for everyone deserving.

 

[Kathy McCain]

I'm with Norma and Ross on this one. It's just causing to much internal strife. I am hoping Texas wil follow suite. I am just sorry that the US seems to take most of the blame for this mess. What about the Mexican government?? I also say shame on ANYONE who is trying to make this a RACIAL ISSUE!!! For myself, (and I'm sure the majority) it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with the rule of law. The American people for decades have been asking for something to be done about our borders. It hurts everyone, no matter where they are from or their racial background. The infiltration of the Mexican drug lords is quiet unsettling. Too many innocent people are getting hurt.

 

[Dennis S]

It would be hard to improve on Bob’s answer, but I would like to add some details. First, we definitely have a problem with illegal immigration on our border with Mexico. We are a nation of laws, and it is appropriate to search for legal means to reduce or eliminate the problem. This is a difficult and complex problem.

Second, every law we consider for passage needs to be carefully studied to be sure it does not create separate problems of it’s own. I think this law does cause significant problems. I would like to describe two scenarios that, when considered together demonstrate the problem, in my opinion.

My daughter has an Hispanic last name. When she was younger she served her country in the armed forces with distinction, including difficult posts overseas at considerable personal sacrifice. She has a New Mexico driver’s license.* New Mexico does not require proof of citizenship to obtain a driver’s license, and it is not proof of legal residence. Under the new Arizona law (when it becomes effective), if my daughter has any “lawful contact” with a police officer from Arizona who decides he has “reasonable suspicion” to suspect that she is an “alien who is unlawfully present in the United States”, she is subject to being detained until she can prove her citizenship. I don’t think this will happen to her, because her Minnesota parents passed on their genes for white skin and blue eyes.

Now consider the situation of my son-in-law, who has the Hispanic last name my daughter proudly took when they were married. My SIL has devoted his entire adult life to the service of his country as a decorated, highly ranked officer in the United States army. As a Lieut. Colonel he will soon be sent into combat for a third deployment in Iraq. We have soldiers who are alive today because he shouldered the tremendous responsibility for protecting installations from outside attack. We have war widows whose burden was lightened because he used his rank and influence to have soldiers accompany them and their children, car seats and luggage through the airports when they left army housing and flew home to commence their new civilian life as grieving single parents. My SIL was born to Honduran parents. He pretty much fits the profile the new law applies to. What happens if he comes into “lawful contact” with some Arizona cop who decides he has “reasonable suspicion” that this American hero might just be “an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States”? With no white skin, and no blue eyes, I think it is fair to be very concerned as to what would happen.

As an “older American” I recall at different times that the subject of a “National ID” card would come up. This has always been rejected by Americans as being too great an intrusion on our personal liberties. Please realize that the legal effect of this law is that you better have some kind of “National ID” if a single Arizona cop decides that you need one under their law. Finally, please realize the history of laws like this. Once we head down this road, you can’t count on an exemption for blue eyes and white skin forever.

 

[Kathy McCain]

For me personally, if it would help to keep criminals, drug cartel and other undesirables out, I would certainly not mind showing some form of legal identification. Unless someone, somewhere out there can come up with something more effective, I think the Arizona law is a start. To me it is much better than doing nothing. I do however, respect and understand what Dennis is saying.