HEART KNOCKING?

[thehoffr]

HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS?

After surgery heart knocks so badly feels like an "angry kid inside with boots" on "trying to kick his way out".

Surgery was April 2016 and I had AVR plus asc aortic graft. It's been torture ever since..

Cardiologists will ONLY double check my heart rhythm and I tried to say it's not heart arhythmia it's a knocking like my heart is made of wood, and they tell me everything's OK.

Recently I saw a primary care doctor at Kaiser who said it sounds like "pericardial adhesion" and could hear the load knock with each beat. I talked to the cardiologist and he said the scans do not detect any adhesion.

The only other thing I can think of is the "ascending aortic graft" is not sized properly and is slapping against my chest wall every time it pressurizes. But I can get no help out of doctors and I can not live with this torture.

I so hope someone has knowledge of what this could be because I can not live with it. I cannot get to sleep I have to use melatonin.. just think of what that feels like a bass drum pounding against your back bone and chest bone sometimes it rocks my body. And doctors will not acknowledge it.

 

[Warrick]

I feel for you but apart from that dont have an answer.
Mines the same but only when I lie on my back in bed, its like a hammer hitting a drain pipe and it reverberates far more than just ticking. I guess its just the anatomy Im blessed with

 

[pellicle]

HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS?

After surgery heart knocks so badly feels like an "angry kid inside with boots" on "trying to kick his way out".
...
I so hope someone has knowledge of what this could be because I can not live with it. I cannot get to sleep I have to use melatonin.. just think of what that feels like a bass drum pounding against your back bone and chest bone sometimes it rocks my body. And doctors will not acknowledge it.

its hard to make any sort of assessment on just qualitative explainations, but I'd be of the view that the cardiologist exploring the scans would know more than your general physician.

The "rocking" sounds like what I used to get which was this.

I've not had them (interestingly) since my 3rd surgery (where I got a mechanical and a graft), but if I did then the graft and the clicking of the valve may make a sound like what you describe.

I'd ask your surgeon if there was a gore-tex membrane placed over the pericardium (under the sternum) after closing, as in my case there was. I was told it was to exactly prevent such adhesions.

sorry I can't be of more help

 

[thehoffr]

The fact you've survived 3 surgeries is unbelievable. I barely survived one and can't imagine doing it again.. it didn't go so well I was more than 2 hours over so I also have I think they call it pump head but it's spotty memory plus when they pulled the tubes out of my windpipe they scratched me or something and I was gagging for days it was really hard the 1st week I wanted to gag-cough all the time. But this drum beat that feels like kid kicking a wall is definitely not arrhythmia. My heart beat now averages 94 beats per minute and it used to be more like 70 to 68. I was a cyclist so this surprise me to be told I has bicupid aortic stenosis, I had a very good heart i thought. I didn't even get winded I could road cycle high speeds for hours.

 

[thehoffr]

I feel for you but apart from that dont have an answer.
Mines the same but only when I lie on my back in bed, its like a hammer hitting a drain pipe and it reverberates far more than just ticking. I guess its just the anatomy Im blessed with

Warrick, sounds similar. There must be an explanation. At least is there some kind of scan that can visualize impact there's definitely an impact going on and the fact my heart beats at 94 if a valve wears out after a certain number of opening and closures, a faster heart beat's going to wear the valve out quicker so I'd like to understand the principles at least of this problem .. an explanation at least helps you live with it.

 

[Paul1972]

Hi

HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS?

After surgery heart knocks so badly feels like an "angry kid inside with boots" on "trying to kick his way out".

Surgery was April 2016 and I had AVR plus asc aortic graft. It's been torture ever since..

Cardiologists will ONLY double check my heart rhythm and I tried to say it's not heart arhythmia it's a knocking like my heart is made of wood, and they tell me everything's OK.

Recently I saw a primary care doctor at Kaiser who said it sounds like "pericardial adhesion" and could hear the load knock with each beat. I talked to the cardiologist and he said the scans do not detect any adhesion.

The only other thing I can think of is the "ascending aortic graft" is not sized properly and is slapping against my chest wall every time it pressurizes. But I can get no help out of doctors and I can not live with this torture.

I so hope someone has knowledge of what this could be because I can not live with it. I cannot get to sleep I have to use melatonin.. just think of what that feels like a bass drum pounding against your back bone and chest bone sometimes it rocks my body. And doctors will not acknowledge it.

Hi, my first surgery I had a valve repair and aortic graft and I didn’t have any thudding or knocking . A year later I had to have a mechanical valve again with aortic graft and from day one I have had a thudding/knocking which gets harder the more I breathe in.In my eyes it’s definitely got to be the mechanical valve as I didn’t have it after my repair with a graft. They say it’s from the lungs expanding and the chest cavity getting smaller making it more noticeable but the mechanical valve must amplify it. At night if I sleep on my right it’s loads more noticeable than sleeping on my left . I also had a superior vena cava graft which might make it vibrate more. My surgeons say it’s all normal so that’s good enough for me I’ve learnt to adjust to it . Best wishes

 

[pellicle]

My heart beat now averages 94 beats per minute and it used to be more like 70 to 68. I was a cyclist so this surprise me to be told I has bicupid aortic stenosis, I had a very good heart i thought. I didn't even get winded I could road cycle high speeds for hours.

it takes time, within 2 years from my last surgery I was back cross country skiing again (I had an infection to deal with among other complications after the third).

take it slowly and just put gradual pressure on yourself to improve it will come back.

my HR was 120 just being in bed in the ward when I got back from ICU and I recall that just sitting in bed had me rocking back and forth from this newly unleashed pump in my chest.

best wishes

 

[Savymom]

I have a similar experience. My first surgery I received a tissue valve, which beat very quietly. I had my second surgery in July 2018- and now have a mechanical valve. Each beat feels like my heart is punching the inside of my sternum. It’s not just a sound, but a percussion felt throughout my upper half. It’s very intrusive.

It’s been one year since surgery- it definitely has gotten more tolerable, but is still there.

Good luck, hope this helps some.

 

[Agian]

Well, I'm lying down, it's quiet and I can hear the cymbals in my chest. There is some vibration associated. I don't know if it's significant, but I just don't care, or maybe it's not significant at all. Every now again I feel a flutter in my upper left chest.

This is the new normal. The new normal is artificially induced. I don't know whether someone else with the exact same sensation would be tormented by
it.

Interesting to ponder. There must be a way to study this, measure the loudness, chest wall vibrations and the like.

I met a guy in cardiac rehab, and you could hardly hear his. But it was really getting him down.

Hoff, this might be one of those things where hypnosis can help. I don't think there's anything wrong.

I'm a middle aged man. So I don't care. I sometimes wonder what the racket would be like for a younger person, especially a girl. What type of an effect would it have on self-esteem; going on a date and click click click. Even having had heart surgery may be a big deal.

I'm rambling. I think a lot has to do with perception.

 

[tom in MO]

Agian is right. It does have to do with perception. Maybe you need help from someone that's not going to "fix" the noise, but help you "not listen to it." Living in Sacramento, you should be able to find someone that can try something different. For example, guided relaxation therapy helps many people find a good night's sleep w/o using chemicals. It also helps to just allow you to be calm. It worked for me in the waiting room of the cardiovascular surgeon I used to volunteer in a children's mental ward and learned it there.

 

[AZ Don]

About 6 years ago I had a valve sparing aortic aneurysm repair. Ever since I have what feels like my heart (or aortic graft) thudding against my sternum whenever I take a deep breath. I feel it less to not at all when my posture is poor or I breath shallowly (as if I didn't have enough challenges trying to maintain better posture). After surgery it was actually painful, now it is just annoying. I talked to all my Dr's about it but none were familiar with it or really had an idea what it could be, though one speculated that it could be related to my new anatomy. I explored this forum and found a few discussions with people that had something similar, to varying degrees. I can relate to the comment:

It’s not just a sound, but a percussion felt throughout my upper half. It’s very intrusive.

Mine doesn't have any relationship to my heartrate - my resting heartrate is consistently below 70 on a very low dose of metoprolol.

 

[Protimenow]

I'm wondering if you're rather slim stature. If the space between your sternum and your spine is small, perhaps the beating of the heart (or clicking of the valve) WOULD put more pressure on your sternum and ribs (less space between heart and sternum), than it would for someone with a larger chest. Just a thought.

As far as dating, I wonder if, perhaps, the person you're on a date with may actually like hearing your heart rate go up -- it's confirmation (better than just saying it) that he or she is REALLY exciting you. Then again, I was married when I had my surgery, and my wife said that hearing the click reassured her that I was okay.

 

[bobr33543]

I still remember the first thing I noticed upon waking up from the AVR surgery 7 1/2 years ago was a throbbing sensation (not pain) of my heartbeat from the back of my head where it rested on the pillow down to my shoulders. Mine was a tissue valve so I was surprised to feel every heartbeat that way. It was so noticeable that I could easily count the beats. That sensation disappeared over the course of the first year post surgery, but I believe it had to do with the fact that even a tissue valve has a different architecture from the natural valve. Hoffr, I hope your issue eases over time as mine did, although your description of the symptoms sounds like it is more noticeable than mine ever was.

 

[Justmadi]

I am glad to hear this discussed. I, too, feel every thud. It has been 6 years since my St Jude’s valve was installed. The year prior I had an ascending aortic repair. I, also, spoke with my doctors and searched for ANY kind of study. I didn’t find any.
Some days it is worse than other days. I’d like to know what causes this. My only thought is that my aorta isn’t as elastic anymore and the reverberations are strong.

Doctors would say it will get better and it has to a point. It no longer worries me when there is a “skipped” beat and it no longer rules my day BUT it is always there and annoying

Sleeping has been my biggest issue. Feather pillow tucked so my ear doesn’t lay ON the pillow is the best for me. I have, also, found that the strength of the beat is a hill and valley occurrence. I can sleep well for several weeks, then there are several days of super loudness!

So...to summarize..I think it will always be there, but one does learn to live with it.

 

[Classtime Sailer]

This may have been mentioned already but I believe that the increased "noise" is from the pericardium being left open after most open heart surgeries.

 

[Duffey]

I still remember the first thing I noticed upon waking up from the AVR surgery 7 1/2 years ago was a throbbing sensation (not pain) of my heartbeat from the back of my head where it rested on the pillow down to my shoulders. Mine was a tissue valve so I was surprised to feel every heartbeat that way. It was so noticeable that I could easily count the beats. That sensation disappeared over the course of the first year post surgery, but I believe it had to do with the fact that even a tissue valve has a different architecture from the natural valve. Hoffr, I hope your issue eases over time as mine did, although your description of the symptoms sounds like it is more noticeable than mine ever was.

Same here. Bovine valve and the throbbing at the base of my head. It lasted for a year or so, and sometimes it would disappear for days at a time.

 

[Warrick]

Yep my wife says its a good way of checking Im not dead if she wakes up at night...

 

[pellicle]

...
Interesting to ponder. There must be a way to study this, measure the loudness, chest wall vibrations and the like.

I met a guy in cardiac rehab, and you could hardly hear his. But it was really getting him down.
.... I think a lot has to do with perception.

some good points there, and I agree, perception management is pretty important. Perhaps some "standard" measurement (in audio terms) could be studied and then given to patients to let them understand the relative nature of this compared to what others had?

But then again maybe that wouldn't help the person to cope ... hard to say, what would @thehoffr think of such an approach?

 

[DDT77]

thehoffr-
I have same treatment as you, knocking as you indicate can be rather bothersome. I find fan required for sleep, and lying on right side gives less 'bang' compared to on back or left side. I've been playing percussion for a little more than year and a half (drums with a little symbol mixed in). Previously had Ross procedure 20+ years ago, without any percussion set. Went on a factory tour last week, with ear plugs and ear muffs - ugh..

I had 90+ bpm in recovery - until taking Metropolol, which i continue taking. Started out with Tartrate, which was something of a roller coaster (down to ~ 35 bpm <hibernating?>), now taking Succinate which only drops me to 50 bpm.

 

[thehoffr]

Agian is right. It does have to do with perception. Maybe you need help from someone that's not going to "fix" the noise, but help you "not listen to it." Living in Sacramento, you should be able to find someone that can try something different. For example, guided relaxation therapy helps many people find a good night's sleep w/o using chemicals. It also helps to just allow you to be calm. It worked for me in the waiting room of the cardiovascular surgeon I used to volunteer in a children's mental ward and learned it there.

It probably cannot be fixed unless I have another heart surgery which right now is the last thing I would ever want, but it is not perception, it is with out a doubt something physical and knocks against backbone and chest. Someone else used the word thud which may be describes it even more.

Mostly the post is about who else has experienced this and what have doctors told them because it feels like doctors want to avoid this topic.

I truly appreciate everyone's contribution and please keep them coming I'm sure this is not as uncommon as it's made out to be and there is a common cause.