handstands... do them or no?...

[weissarthur]

Hello all,

I want to share something i noticed while working out the other day. I am 45 years old, active and 4 years out of heart surgery that left me with to mechanical valves and a mended ascending. When I work out, I wear a heart monitor always. The other day we were working on handstands in yoga. I cant do them (never have) but i followed the best i could. first, with our back to the wall, we tried to kick up to the wall and use it to balance once we got there. as expected i was only "so so" at doing this and i monitored my heart rate the whole time and stopped when it got around 150. the next exercise had us walk up the wall into a more handstand-like position. When i got up to my handstand position i noticed something strange about my heart rate, it decreased to about 110 and stayed there. But when i came down and rested it shot up while i rested to 135. This didnt make sense to me. I did it a couple more times and decided i should stop and learn a little more before i try again.

Why do you think this happens?

Do you think I should or shouldn't attempt to learn handstands (or do other inversions) in yoga?

I would like to thank all responders in advance. Over the years your advise has been invaluable to me (see other posts)

Art

 

[pellicle]

well I dunno, but it could be something like this:
There is a nerve node called the AV node which is right near the aorta:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrioventricular_node

this is occasionally damaged in surgery, but even if it isn't damaged I have a pet theory that the prosthesis and scar tissue after surgery can put some pressure on this depending on your orientation.

For instance my heart beat feels different and is higher when I sleep on one side or the other (and btw I have a mechanical with an ascending aorta pipe too).

I've also found that since surgery the chemistry in some alcohols (like red wines) give me a more elevated heart rate than I'd get prior to surgery. This however is difficult for me to really be sure of as I didn't commonly take my HR when having a few after dinner, but my new valve makes me aware of my HR all the time.

Bottom line for me is : if it feels bad don't do it.

Myself while I see value in a lot of Yoga practices, some of it is just asking for trouble. So I don't do it.

Equally I've stopped martial arts (Aikido) some years back as my neck was just getting injured too often in the tumbles. Essentially I'm not 25 anymore and while you can find some instructors who are as fit as an athlete at 50 you'll find more who have withdrawn quietly due to injury compounding effects

Best Wishes

 

[Agian]

Fascinating.
BTW, any restrictions once we're fully mended?
Weights, push-ups, sit-ups, all the good stuff.

 

[Agian]

Arthur, I take Atenolol 25mg twice a day.
I must be the only person on the forum that doesn't mind beta blockers. My HR sits between 60 and 90. Nice.

 

[Paleowoman]

Normally the heart takes great effort to pump blood upwards towards the head to keep the brain well supplied, so I would have thought that when you're doing a handstand the 'work' for your heart is much less so your heart rate will drop from what it was. Then when you come right way up your heart has to rev up all over again which keeps it up. I'm not an expert though, just my logical (illogical ?) thinking.

 

[Mellyouttaphase]

No wonder Handstand Push-ups at Crossfit (against the wall) were never my thing. Ha. Mobility all jacked up from surgeries as a kid but never noticed whether it did funny things to my heart - any intense workout had me feeling like I was dying anyway :/ Will be interesting to see what happens when I get back into it!

 

[Mellyouttaphase]

Fascinating.
BTW, any restrictions once we're fully mended?
Weights, push-ups, sit-ups, all the good stuff.

My situation could be very different given that I had a PVR and most of you are AVR patients but my surgeon told me that I can expect to pretty much make a full recovery and that once my sternum has completely healed I shouldn't have any restrictions. That said, I am not confident I'll get back to lifting the weights I was prior to surgery (I "felt" asymptomatic), I would like to, so we'll see.

 

[epstns]

Fascinating.
BTW, any restrictions once we're fully mended?
Weights, push-ups, sit-ups, all the good stuff.

My docs didn't restrict me after the first few months. They said basically, "If it feels good, do it." I went back to cycling, power-walking (knees rejected going back to running), light weights/high reps (they did say to stop the heavy lifting), and floor exercises like push-ups. For many years, I did 3 sets of 30 push-ups each morning. Then one of my pacemaker wires began to fail, and I was afraid that the wire might have been damaged by being pinched against the clavicle, so I stopped the push-ups. I then had the lead and pacemaker replaced, and the doc said that once I get past the 6-week motion/lifting restriction for the new lead to seat, I can go right back to my weights and push-ups.

That's a long story to say that my restrictions are not related to my heart situation. They are purely age-related, and are keeping me active but controlling the risk of injury in the activity.

I agree with the instruction of "If it feels good, do it."

 

[Paleowoman]

Hi Aglan - I had no restrictions at all after about three months post surgery. I got back to mostly pre surgery fitness by about one year post op. I do heavy weight lifting, as heavy as I can lift, almost the same as pre-surgery. I get some pain along the sternum where the ribs attach to the sternum on the right, but it doesn't stop me lifting as the pain comes after and I love weight lifting too much !

 

[Paleowoman]

Normally the heart takes great effort to pump blood upwards towards the head to keep the brain well supplied, so I would have thought that when you're doing a handstand the 'work' for your heart is much less so your heart rate will drop from what it was. Then when you come right way up your heart has to rev up all over again which keeps it up. I'm not an expert though, just my logical (illogical ?) thinking.

Just did an experiment to test my theory. Put on heart rate monitor. Did a bit of exercise. Then did a handstand (sort of), but upside down my heart rate dropped rapidly. Going right way up after and it rose again.

 

[spartangator]

I have something similar with burpees, too. I always figured it was to do with the fact that handstands and burpees involve changing the body's orientation fairly quickly (well, not so much in my particular case ). As pellicle points out, a safe bet is to just avoid stuff that doesn't feel right, and it might be worth running by your cardio at the next check-up.

 

[jhc1]

I specifically asked my cardiologist about yoga and headstands...he said to go for it....

 

[charlieecho]

well I dunno, but it could be something like this:
There is a nerve node called the AV node which is right near the aorta:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrioventricular_node

this is occasionally damaged in surgery, but even if it isn't damaged I have a pet theory that the prosthesis and scar tissue after surgery can put some pressure on this depending on your orientation.

For instance my heart beat feels different and is higher when I sleep on one side or the other (and btw I have a mechanical with an ascending aorta pipe too).

I've also found that since surgery the chemistry in some alcohols (like red wines) give me a more elevated heart rate than I'd get prior to surgery. This however is difficult for me to really be sure of as I didn't commonly take my HR when having a few after dinner, but my new valve makes me aware of my HR all the time.

Bottom line for me is : if it feels bad don't do it.

Myself while I see value in a lot of Yoga practices, some of it is just asking for trouble. So I don't do it.

Equally I've stopped martial arts (Aikido) some years back as my neck was just getting injured too often in the tumbles. Essentially I'm not 25 anymore and while you can find some instructors who are as fit as an athlete at 50 you'll find more who have withdrawn quietly due to injury compounding effects

Best Wishes

Very interesting about this nerve! I've never heard of this and I experience very much of what you say about feeling your HB more laying on one side compared to the other. Mine also is very profound when I take a deep breath. When I get to the top of the breath i have a very strong beat to the point where I don't want to breath past that point. It really bothers me and I think I subconsciously regulate my breathing to prevent it. When I workout and get my HR up it doesn't seem to affect me as bad but it's very discomforting. I've tried explaining this sensation to 3 different cardiologist and they all had nothing to really say about it. I'm now wondering if it has something to do with this nerve you pointed out though.

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Very interesting about this nerve!

its an important one, and as I understand it damage to it during surgery leads to you requiring a pacemaker after surgery

Mine also is very profound when I take a deep breath. When I get to the top of the breath i have a very strong beat to the point where I don't want to breath past that point.

I feel that these are unrelated issues, as I think that is caused by scar tissue post surgery which essentially traps the heart more than it previously was. Thus with less "squidge room" each beat is felt more as breath is drawn in (inflating the lungs and making everything tighter again).

Myself I feel this too but I've been inclined to "stretch through it" and do deep breathing. I'm not inclined to hold my breath right at the top often, except when I'm trying to reduce my HR (which this seems to do) I normally hold for about 10 ~ 15 seconds and my heart beat slows appreciably.

I did this soon after surgery as it seemed to result in my post surgery HR coming down from 100 to where it is now over some months. This could have been coincidence but I have the view that it was part of training my body - "see, you don't need to beat that fast for me sitting in the car" ...

I've tried explaining this sensation to 3 different cardiologist and they all had nothing to really say about it. I'm now wondering if it has something to do with this nerve you pointed out though.

I think that all of us have some symptoms which are quite uncommon (perhaps nearly unique) and that cardiologists just aren't (can't be) aware of all of them. They tend to focus on the big picture (will anything go wrong) and the small issues which are perhaps individual are out of their domain.

For instance, I get sometimes a feeling of "heat" in my breath similar to if I had been running long distance - but without running at all. This persists sometimes for days then when I've stopped observing it I find myself discovering (say a week later) its gone away.

Curiously I don't get this when cycling or during actual cardio exersize.

So I think this is all just "part of living with your changes" post surgery.

HTH

 

[charlieecho]

Hi



its an important one, and as I understand it damage to it during surgery leads to you requiring a pacemaker after surgery




I feel that these are unrelated issues, as I think that is caused by scar tissue post surgery which essentially traps the heart more than it previously was. Thus with less "squidge room" each beat is felt more as breath is drawn in (inflating the lungs and making everything tighter again).

Myself I feel this too but I've been inclined to "stretch through it" and do deep breathing. I'm not inclined to hold my breath right at the top often, except when I'm trying to reduce my HR (which this seems to do) I normally hold for about 10 ~ 15 seconds and my heart beat slows appreciably.

I did this soon after surgery as it seemed to result in my post surgery HR coming down from 100 to where it is now over some months. This could have been coincidence but I have the view that it was part of training my body - "see, you don't need to beat that fast for me sitting in the car" ...




I think that all of us have some symptoms which are quite uncommon (perhaps nearly unique) and that cardiologists just aren't (can't be) aware of all of them. They tend to focus on the big picture (will anything go wrong) and the small issues which are perhaps individual are out of their domain.

For instance, I get sometimes a feeling of "heat" in my breath similar to if I had been running long distance - but without running at all. This persists sometimes for days then when I've stopped observing it I find myself discovering (say a week later) its gone away.

Curiously I don't get this when cycling or during actual cardio exersize.

So I think this is all just "part of living with your changes" post surgery.

HTH

Well I don't have a pacemaker and all of my echos have shown my valve is working perfectly. Thank you for the education and it's always good to talk to a fellow heart patient.