For all of you Cleveland Clinic patients...

[Christina L]

I am not

I am not

being passionate about this issue because of Dr. Cosgrove. He was my surgeon and I think he is brilliant and I do admire what he is doing at Cleveland trying to get better food in there and ban smoking, BUT I am outspoken on this matter because of my belief in living a healthy lifestyle and preventative medicine.

Ask anyone who knows me about my vocalness about eating healthy and living healthy, although I don't consider myself fanatical.

All the guy (Cosgrove) is trying to do is change "his" hospital's way of eating and behaving. Is that so bad?? I can't believe the uproar about this - on this board and also on TV - the story is still on the news channels.

P.S. I vaguely remember the cafeteria in the Cleveland hospital, but from what I could see, it had a lot of healthy food. I work PT in a hospital right now and the cafeteria is appalling, as most are.

Okay, I'm done! All I'm going to say! Really.

Christina L.

 

[Bryan B]

Just for the record, I was talking about allowing visitors and employees to smoke OUTSIDE, not inside the hospital. When someone said "not on the premises", I took that to mean nowhere on the CCF property. And to whoever said you don't see many obese doctors or nurses...and you don't see many doctors or nurses (or other health care providers) who smoke must not have ever worked in a hospital. You wouldn't believe how many RESPIRATORY THERAPISTS smoke. You would think that of all the health care providers they would be least likely to smoke...not true. My BIL is a doctor and he smokes like a chimney. And try eating a balanced and nutritional diet when you're on call or working 12hr shifts or constantly rotating between 1st, 2nd and 3rd shift.

Personally I'm glad I quit smoking. I quit for 2.5 years once before and started back when me and my ex split up. I really had a hard time quiting after that until I found out I needed surgery. Although drastic, that was just the motivation I needed to put them down again. But I fully believe that people should have the right to smoke as long as they are in an area that doesn't affect those who choose not to smoke. And as for the battle against fast food chains...most offer healthy alternatives on their menus now, and having eaten in hospital cafeterias for over a decade I KNOW that most hospitals serve food that is just as bad for you as any fast food joint.

Finally, for the person who said CCF should not operate on anyone who eats fast food or smokes...it may improve their statistics but they probably wouldn't have many patients left to operate on.

I have no problem with Dr. Cosgrove wanting the best for his patients and their families, but I PERSONALLY think it crosses the line to deny people the right have a burger and a smoke if that gives them some comfort during trying times.

 

[Christina L]

Okay, so I

Okay, so I

lied. I have ONE more thing to say and truly this is it.

What about banning smoking from sporting events, restaurants, etc.??? That used to be the great American pasttime - to go to a ballgame, have a beer and smoke. People were up in arms about these smoking bans. Whole TOWNS are banning smoking in public places! HELLO!!!!

If smoking can be banned in these venues, why in the world shouldn't it be banned from hospitals??

P.S. Wayne just got home and I was talking to him about this thread - he works for a hospital network - he informed me that one of the hospitals has banned (a few years ago) smoking from the hospital AND its campus - SO, this is not a new thing evidently.

Christina L.

 

[Harpoon]

It's illegal to smoke in any publicly used building (this goes beyond just city hall to include restaurants, bars, hotels, shopping centers, malls, etc.) in a number of counties around New York State including where I live.

A LOT of bars are pretty upset over it and a number of them have closed down, though there are several bars here in town that are still open and doing well these days, inspite of the fresh air... =)


And one other small thing. As I recall from the book Michael Ruhlman wrote on Cleveland Clinic's pediatric heart surgery unit, Dr. Mee smokes a fair amount... Not chain smoking, but he's not a "non-smoker" either.

 

[John & Joann]

Cleveland Clinic DOES want to ban smoking on the entire campus. This is approximately 2600 acres. It is currently banned in all buildings and vehicles. This will be difficult to enfore with the visitors. Smoking is allow in certain hotel and motel rooms on campus now. That will also not be allowed in the rooms.

 

[BillCobit]

Some Christmas gift ideas

Some Christmas gift ideas

 

[pegne]

From what the news said the CC wants to ban smoking anywhere on the campus even outdoors. I am sorry but this IS wrong. And as for somebody saying that there are few obese docs and surgeons I guess they haven't been to many facilities. I on the other hand have been to the best of the best. Both in IL and outside of IL. Mass. General (Boston), Loyola, St. Luke's University of Chicago and the CC many times. I have seen many doctors considered to be the best of the best. Believe me, many of these docs were not the picture of health. I said before that I was in the CC for three weeks. I live six hours away from there. My husband was at my side the whole time. Except to sleep. He got a hotel room away from the hospital because the prices more locally were outrageous. We left our children with my in-laws and on the one occasion my kids were able to come to the hospital it was a hardship getting them there. The last thing my husband needed to worry about was how he was going to afford café food. The Pizza Hut or burgers were allot more economical then café food. This is a concern and we cannot hide our heads from this FACT. I was at many hospitals waiting while my brother-in-law went through bi-pass and then a heart transplant. We always went to the café for lunch and/or dinner. I never got out of there without paying $6.00 to $8.00 just for myself. Figure that out by 21 days and that isn't even including breakfast. I am also a woman who does not eat much. As for "walking his tush down to the MCd's down the street" it was the beginning of Mar. March in Cleveland isn't like Hawaii. It isn't 70 and sunny all the time. They need to accommodate everyone not just a select few. I do not think Cosgrove is taking this into consideration. After all if the situation were reversed he would probably have his personal trainer and cook supply him with whatever he needs. Lord knows he can afford it.

 

[geebee]

I have tried to be quiet and not post but I am compelled. I am getting a little weary of the world trying to tell me how to live my life when it comes to personal choices. Obviously the world needs to make sure I do not murder people, abuse children, become a traitor to my country, etc. However, I have worked very hard to stay in this world. I have earned some freedom to enjoy my life. Although I would never throw away the second and third and fourth chances I have been given to this life, I am unwilling to spend the rest of my life without some treats. Everyone's treats are different. Some may be chocolate, some may be McDonald's, some may be tofu. It is unfortunate that some folks abuse their bodies by overindulging in, say, McDonalds but, to take that away from me is ludicrous (and I don't even really like McDonald's).
I also agree that the wonderful people who take the time to visit us in hospital deserve a way to get quick and inexpensive food should they CHOOSE to go that route.
I do not smoke although I used to until the cardio told me to stop. I do not like people smoking around me, especially while I am eating. However, once again, people make personal choices and free will is one of the abilities God gave to us. He should be the one to judge not some doctor in Cleveland.
I truly believe there is something more to this removal of McDonald's than an all of a sudden enlightenment as to the "dangers of fast food". Perhaps a refusal to alter percentages of profit paid to the Cleveland Clinic?
Just some "food for thought".
Smiles,
Gina

 

[Karlynn]

Any time I read anything on these types of topics I become a little sad. It seems that more and more we are not encouraging (requiring?) personal responsibility and expecting our government, or in this case our hospitals, to be baby-sitters. I feel like we are turning into a Nanny State.

There's the mom that sued McDonald's because her son was taking the lunch money she gave him and going to McDonald's every day. Hello??? How about not giving him money and making his lunch (it would be cheaper) for him, if she felt he was gaining to much? If the mother felt he was not making responsible eating choices - wasn't it up to her to take care of that and teach him? But instead she teaches the son that nothing is his fault - McDonald's shouldn't have been serving the food.

Dr. Cosgrove can do as he wishes. But the problem with food related health problems won't stop until people take personal responsibility for what they put in their mouths.

To tell the truth, I was a bit surprised to hear that a heart hospital had a McDonald's. Someone needs to come up with a fast food chain that sells reasonably priced healthy food. Now a days it seems like you have to pay more to eat healthy.

 

[Ross]

Just give me a pack of Marlboro, a bottle of Jack Daniels, a nice big cholesterol laden burger and leave me alone!

 

[pegne]

You'll die happy, right Ross?

 

[Ross]

You'll die happy, right Ross?

We are all going to die anyhow. Why shouldn't I be happy when I go?

 

[tobagotwo]

I eat at a fast-food place two or three times a year, when stuck with it by travelling. I don't smoke, and haven't for years. As long as I don't have to walk through someone's smoke, I wouldn't claim an injury to my rights. Tolerance for others embraces many things which I would not add to my own life.

Just a note: CEO is Chief Executive Officer, not dictator. In most venues, this does not indicate freedom to declare all policy unilaterally. Most CEOs are still responsible to the Board of Directors as a whole, despite what you may have seen in movies or Donald Trump's so-called "reality" series. And those who aren't, are smart enough to realize that it makes no sense to alienate potential allies by leaving fellow board members out of big decisions.

It is entirely likely that Dr. Cosgrove will be able to have smoking banned on the premises, but there get to be other issues, such as, "does the parking lot 'own' the property/air inside my vehicle?" Plus, there will be issues with the adjacent properties, as people from the hospital will congregate just over the line to smoke, annoying other property owners. (Hint: I've seen this happen at local corporate properties - they all wound up dropping the policy and creating segregated outside smoking areas.) It will turn out to be unworkable in a practical sense over time, regardless of its potential value.

Absolutely, smokers and their noisesome aerial offal should be sequestered away from others' paths, though.

As far as the fast food chains, those that are on premises are commercial ventures who have contracts and leases with the CCF, and operate entirely at the pleasure of CCF within the legal confines of their agreements. Thus, CCF can push them out when their leases or contracts expire, as they see fit.

It should be pointed out that CCF is undoubtedly getting top dollar in those agreements for those choice spots among their "captive audience." However, many people will choose to go off premises for food in the future, given the choice of a tram ride to get whatever they want or a handy Tofu 'n' Algae stand. That will stress the internal tram systems at lunch/dinner time, causing frustrations, complaints, schedule changes, and possibly requiring more trams. And all that former contract money will go into making more greaseburger stands instead of into CCF research coffers. Hmmm. Doable; but who gets hurt most?

There is no smoking inside hospitals or public buildings in NJ as far a I know, with the exception of airflow-separated smoking areas being legal in restaurants above a certain size. However, outside smoker's courts at hospitals are well-attended, with hospital staff well represented. And there is ample representation of big butts in most hospital staffs, too. My interventional cardiologist is not a small man, but I'll keep him, thank you...

Best wishes,

 

[Karlynn]

My Mom used to tell of a dinner she was having with her brother - who is an oncologist. It's my Mom's side of the family that I get our genetically high cholesterol from and both she and her brother were battling it. They went out to dinner when he was visiting and he ordered Shrimp Dejonge. My Mom chastized him for not being sensible in his food choice, especially being a doctor and all. He said "The way I look at it, eating this fabulously fat and cholesterol loaded shrimp is going to take about 6 to 7 minutes off my life. It's 6 to 7 minutes I'm gladly relinquishing."

My uncle still eats sensibly most of the time, but has continued to enjoy the splurges that make life enjoyable, from time to time. That's pretty much the way I try to live as well. Good most of the time - but far be it for me to waste a really nice dinner out on healthy food.

 

[geebee]

I think a lot of us would eat much healthier if we were given choices at all restaurants. Two of the phrases I really hate to hear is "no substitutions" or "that will be an additional charge". I was at IHOP today and wanted the fish (from their fish and chips) and asked them to hold the fries and garlic bread and bring me a side salad. They said they could do it but I would pay full price for a side salad even if they kept the other stuff. Now, it is very difficult for me to believe that a few leaves of lettuce and oil/vinegar cost them more than fries & garlice bread but I guess "rules is rules".
Wouldn't it be great if we could make those choices without paying through the teeth. When I shop I do not pay more for healthy food so it should not cost me extra in a restaurant. I guess it costs more for someone to have to actually think.
Anyone want to start a chain of restaurants that cater to such requests? We might make a fortune.
Smiles,
Gina

 

[Turkey Hunter]

My thoughts

My thoughts

I too have been at CCF numerous times and frankly the first time I was AMAZED that there was a MCDonald's & PizzaHut at the entrance to the cafeteria.....Didn't matter to me.

I'll say our freedoms are ours and if I choose to have some Coors Light and a nice cigar. MYCHOICE. Not the governments !

It is going way to far with governemnt trying to tell us how to live our lives. I know, this isn't the government it's Cosgrove.......but he is venturing into an area that will be extreamly hard to enforce. Wasted Money. Increased Costs to us the patients.

I have zero respect for Cosgrove (and will keep the reasoning to myself), but as far as the cafeteria at CCF goes, It's better food than allot of resteraunts!

I have enjoyed there dinners when I am there for a check up. I have seen a chef cutting prime rib for the patrons. If Cosgrove eliminates both fast food chains, then I suspect he is out to change the whole menu. If Cosgrove is out to make CCF food the same as the local hospitals here. Than your desire to not eat after surgery will kill you if you have a long stay. (Their food is good).

I'm done, just my $0.02 worth.

Ben

 

[Christina L]

I just

I just

don't get it - why people think it is taking away their rights to take away the McDonald's and smoking at Cleveland. Just don't understand. It is Cosgrove who is at the helm at Cleveland and as someone else said, it is not just him who is making this decision - it is the board at Cleveland.

As I have found out recently since this thread started, Cleveland is not the only hospital that wants to ban/has banned smoking on its entire campus. There is a hospital near here that has done the same thing.

Yes, maybe cafeteria food costs more but it struck me as odd that people here are concerned about the cost of good healthy food, and in the end will have to have heart bypasses and pay big bucks for medications and prolonged health care when preventative medicine (not eating at fast food places and paying a little more for wholesome food) would have cost much less.

Again, it is Cosgrove's decision and Cleveland's - they can do what they want. If people don't like it, they can go elsewhere. I still admire the man and the hospital for blazing this trail. It is long overdue.

And yes, there are overweight doctors and doctors that smoke, of course there are, but the majority of doctors are very health conscious (I believe). Give them a break and don't use THEIR foibles to justify your own lifestyle (which you deep down know is not the best).

Christina L.

 

[Harpoon]

I keep thinking this over in my head since the thread first came up...


I guess the "bottom line" as I see it is that Dr. Cosgrove and the good folks at Cleveland Clinic are trying to set an example.

It's not about "eating rights" or trying to impose a particular view or menu on the people that circulate in and out of Cleveland Clinic every day who might be looking for a meal along the way. Asking Pizza Hut and McDonald's to end their franchise leases early seems to me more about trying to recognize that, for the most part, the foods that these two companies produce is NOT the healthiest foods for you and that they KNOW this and continue to serve it. There are several thousand EMPLOYEES at Cleveland Clinic alone and I know many of them eat at the cafeterias. Many doctors, nurses, technicians, support staff, administrators, all kinds of people in addition to visitors and outpatients. I've even seen overnight patients in there having meals, heck, I WAS one at one point.

Pizza Hut and McDonald's occupied commercial spaces that could be made available to franchises that offer MUCH healthier menu options and I suspect THAT is the key motivation here. Not so much to exclude MickeyD's because they serve crap, but to make room for a healthier vender such as Subway perhaps, that offers options which would be much better to eat day in and day out.


In addition, I STRONGLY suspect that this move isn't just coming from Cosgrove himself. Along with the board of directors in the hospital, I wouldn't be surpized if suggestions have come from all over the place including staff, visitors, and patients. Everyone has a "suggestion box" and isn't it likely to assume that such an invitation for comments towards providing better services might include ideas on allowing healthier venders to operate kiosk style restuarants where McDonald's and PizzaHut are located????

I'd be VERY curious to see who CCF might be "recruiting" to fill those vacant spaces once they become available....