Fasting and Warfarin

[Seeker]

Anyone have experience with fasting (intermittent or extended) while taking Warfarin. Does your INR jump while fasting?

 

[user 16827]

no difference at all, my longest water fast has been 96hr
regular 24hr done


i do follow a consistent diet, if you vary especially in the VIT K area then more frequent self testing
of your INR may seem prudent .

good luck

 

[pellicle]

no difference at all, my longest water fast has been 96hr
regular 24hr done

pardon me, but does this mean only water for 96h or no water for 96h?

pardon my ignorance on proper terminology of fasting (haven't done it deliberately for some decades now...)

 

[user 16827]

hi Pell yes I drink lots of water.

so it's only water and zero calories to stop the digestive system and induce autophagy .

 

[Justmadi]

I have experience with fasting and warfarin...and it’s NOT good. The fasting wasn’t planned. I came down with a bad case of food poisoning. I couldn’t eat or drink. I ended up with an internal bleed because my warfarin level was off the charts high. The second time this happened was due to incipient autoimmune hepatitis, which I now have under control. Couldn’t eat, warfarin levels high, blood loss. I needed transfusions at that time.

my advice.....NO fasting while on warfarin.
being on warfarin means balancing what you intake with your warfarin dosage. If you stop your intake you totally upset the balance.

 

[user 16827]

just curious as to whether you home test ?

did you check your INR just prior to the fast and how long was it in between tests ?
i only ask because other variables may have entered the mix.


dehydration while fasting is a big mistake , its a pity you couldn't drink



My own experience has been problem free , but i will reiterate my point that my diet is consistent
as is the k intake.

I wouldn't recommend any long fast until you adapt to them, its very stressful on the body and cortisol levels will ramp up , it takes time to build up to extended fasts, and all of us on warfarin should monitor INR more frequently while fasting

 

[pellicle]

hi Pell yes I drink lots of water.

wasn't sure ... last time I did a lengthy fast (48 hours) I had problems getting "moving again" and so since I value my regularity I haven't done it again. Any such problems your end (oops , sorry about the pun ;-).

 

[Seeker]

I have experience with fasting and warfarin...and it’s NOT good. The fasting wasn’t planned. I came down with a bad case of food poisoning. I couldn’t eat or drink. I ended up with an internal bleed because my warfarin level was off the charts high. The second time this happened was due to incipient autoimmune hepatitis, which I now have under control. Couldn’t eat, warfarin levels high, blood loss. I needed transfusions at that time.

my advice.....NO fasting while on warfarin.
being on warfarin means balancing what you intake with your warfarin dosage. If you stop your intake you totally upset the balance.

What you went through sounds terrible. I appreciate the advice Justmadi.

 

[user 16827]

wasn't sure ... last time I did a lengthy fast (48 hours) I had problems getting "moving again" and so since I value my regularity I haven't done it again. Any such problems your end (oops , sorry about the pun ;-).

a common error is to start eating as normal post fast.
you need to plan the refeed well it's very important .

the more you fast the better you get at the refeeding.

I'm an advocate of fasting but it's not for everyone

a vested interest helps.
the benefits of autophagy are well documented.

good luck to anyone who has a go.
start off short and build up.
and keep a close eye on INR

 

[pellicle]

a common error is to start eating as normal post fast.
you need to plan the refeed well it's very important .

the more you fast the better you get at the refeeding.

ok ... any advice?
(including activity / exersize plans)

 

[user 16827]

so apart from building up slowly with the duration and keeping very well hydrated, this works for me;

No exercise whatsoever while i fast, i see it as a healing process

I refeed with a small light salad & small amount of protein ( chicken , fish )

2 to 3 hours after the salad i eat avocado

another 3 to 4hr i will eat a very low GI meal.

Day 2 i would eat as normal

 

[pellicle]

Good points

I refeed with a small light salad & small amount of protein ( chicken , fish )

2 to 3 hours after the salad i eat avocado

another 3 to 4hr i will eat a very low GI meal.

Day 2 i would eat as normal

I usually have plain yoghurt for breakfast, that be ok

I think kimchi would be perfect here at lunch

 

[user 16827]

ye go for it Pell nice and easy tho.
start at say 16 hrs a few days a week then pop in the odd 20 /24 .
no need to refeed at 20hrs but it's good practice for extended fasts.
listen to your body and break the fast when you feel the need .
fasting & kimchi ? your gut will be very happy indeed mate

 

[pellicle]

start at say 16 hrs a few days a week then pop in the odd 20 /24 .
no need to refeed at 20hrs but it's good practice for extended fasts.

thanks ... I will commence this week (and report eventually on any observable changes)
as you may know, I spent an amount of time living in Korea (and before that much longer in Japan) and have in Australia some Korean friends. I've engaged in home making of kimchi once or twice.

I love it and often recommend it here to people to take with them into hospital for their "get moving again" when back on the ward, before the movicol is called for...
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/gut-flora-in-hospitals.887301/
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/stool-softeners-and-valve-replacement.887527/post-897215

 

[Chuck C]

thanks ... I will commence this week (and report eventually on any observable changes)
as you may know, I spent an amount of time living in Korea (and before that much longer in Japan) and have in Australia some Korean friends. I've engaged in home making of kimchi once or twice.

I love it and often recommend it here to people to take with them into hospital for their "get moving again" when back on the ward, before the movicol is called for...
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/gut-flora-in-hospitals.887301/
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/stool-softeners-and-valve-replacement.887527/post-897215

Thanks for this tip. I just added kimchi to my list of things to bring to the hospital. I love kimchi- they sell large containers of it at Costco at a reasonable price.

I eat a diet with good gut flora health in mind. Today I had my Dental Clearance and they gave me antibiotics. I was hesitant, but they insisted because it said to do so on the letter from the doctor's office, which the dentist had to sign. My concern is that I am aware of how anti-biotics wipe out gut flora and I wanted to have healthy gut flora going into the hospital for surgery. Anyway, I suppose that I will be loaded up with flora killing anti-biotics anyway pre surgery, so perhaps the dental anti-biotic is of no consequence. My plan is to try to build it back up as soon as possible, and kimchi is one of those foods excellent for gut flora.

 

[Chuck C]

I love intermittent fasting. I started about a year ago - I will typically do a 16/8 most days (16 hours of fast, with an 8 hour feeding window) and will go 18/6 or 20/4 some days. I have also done the Fast Mimicking Diet (FMD), designed by Valter Longo, a few times- basically going to about 800 calories per day for 5 days, which stimulates autophagy as well and is a lot easier for most people to tolerate than a water only fast. Personally, I found it relatively easy to stick with, although some have hunger pains for the first day or two until ketosis fully kicks in.
I would not expect that intermittent fasting would negatively impact INR and I hope that I have the same experience as Leadville, as I would like to continue this pattern on warfarin.

 

[user 16827]

hey chuck , once you start the warfarin regime I see no reason as to why you can't carry on with I.F
just test regularly until you're happy.
i echo your thoughts with the dentist.
when I need a dental appointment I generally go into a 48hr to help my gut.
keep it up and good luck moving forward

 

[pellicle]

Anyway, I suppose that I will be loaded up with flora killing anti-biotics anyway pre surgery,

why ... I wasn't ... even in post-op

 

[pellicle]

I would not expect that intermittent fasting would negatively impact INR

me neither ... I see no causal relationship

Total fasting for a week however may cause issues...

 

[Chuck C]

why ... I wasn't ... even in post-op

That's interesting. I had minor surgery 2 years ago and was put on antibiotics for a week after. I thought it was standard after surgery to prevent infection. Good to know.